Someone please tell me why Timmons can't beat out Foote

[TWEEK1106]

will some of the Timmons's cheerleaders please tell me why he has yet to lock down the starting job over Foote? all i ever hear from people like superhomer (and a couple others) is NOTHING but rah rah cheering about how athletic and explosive he is and yet he has still not unseated Foote (who is called the "definition of mediocre" by at least 1 of those cheerleaders, and called alot worse by most of the others).

just asking,

maybe Foote isn't that bad, or maybe Timmons isn't that good.....what do you think?

[BermudaSteel]

Unfortunately, I can't answer your question...

I suggestion you call Cleo.

"Call me now!"

[Coryea]

Because Cowher has his veteran favorites, errrr wait.

[Spike]

Just trying to stir the shit?

Maybe you're on the wrong board, the exit sign is lighted for your safety. Watch your step.

[BillvinCowbert]

I thought he pretty clearly beat him out and was hoping that Foote's knee injury would sideline him for the opener to force Timmons to start.

This one is unexplainable to me. The annoying part of it is that there was said to be an open competition for the job. It's plain as day who won that job, but yet Tomlin hasn't made the switch. It's disappointing (and the really weird thing is that Timmons is a TOMLIN GUY)...

[Coryea]

I thought he pretty clearly beat him out and was hoping that Foote's knee injury would sideline him for the opener to force Timmons to start.


I hate to see any of the players hurt, but I thought for sure that would give Tomlin a pretty good reason to start Timmons.

[BillvinCowbert]

I hate to see any of the players hurt, but I thought for sure that would give Tomlin a pretty good reason to start Timmons.

I'm not happy to see him hurt; in fact, I think he's a solid backup. That said, it was a clear opening that would have easily allowed him to "gracefully" start Timmons.

[Wingrider]

I will attempt an answer. 1) Foot is not all that bad, he is actually a good linebacker just not a great linebacker. He also plays where he is supposed to and tackles fairly well. On occasion he has made a big play in the past. His downside is he is about as good as he will get.

2) Timmons has tremendous athletic ability and a great upside but does not have the defense mastered to the extent that Foot does. This lack of understanding and experience on his part results in his being out of position on some plays and wrong angles on some plays that makes it harder for him to make the tackles he attemps. With Timmons he seems to take himself out of plays or miss tackles on plays that he should have been able to make. The fact that he is being put into the mix means he is developing but just not quite there yet.

Some players take a bit longer to develop than others and his injury did not give him any help in this regard.

He may turn into a force in the future. We have someone on the offense who was a slow starter that the team tried to replace several times, but he just kept improving until he became a starter and a player like no other at his position, his name is Hines Ward.

[t-man]

I will attempt an answer. 1) Foot is not all that bad, he is actually a good linebacker just not a great linebacker. He also plays where he is supposed to and tackles fairly well. On occasion he has made a big play in the past. His downside is he is about as good as he will get.

2) Timmons has tremendous athletic ability and a great upside but does not have the defense mastered to the extent that Foot does. This lack of understanding and experience on his part results in his being out of position on some plays and wrong angles on some plays that makes it harder for him to make the tackles he attemps. With Timmons he seems to take himself out of plays or miss tackles on plays that he should have been able to make. The fact that he is being put into the mix means he is developing but just not quite there yet.

Some players take a bit longer to develop than others and his injury did not give him any help in this regard.

He may turn into a force in the future. We have someone on the offense who was a slow starter that the team tried to replace several times, but he just kept improving until he became a starter and a player like no other at his position, his name is Hines Ward.


No no, don't you get it, due to the fact that HInes actually sat behind other WR's when he first got here, and didn't become a true starter right away, that means all the other WR's he sat behind are better than him. After all, if you can't unseat the starter, obviously you must suck. Look how Parker sat behind Staley. See Staley was the true talent, and Willie has just lucked into it now because they can't find anyone better.

Joe

[Coryea]

I'm not happy to see him hurt; in fact, I think he's a solid backup. That said, it was a clear opening that would have easily allowed him to "gracefully" start Timmons.

Exactly what I was hoping.

Wingrider, I see where you're coming from, but Foote was caught out of position quite a bit last year and he knows the defense, sometimes you just have to let a guy play. He's surrounded by very good players(Hampton, Smith, Harrison, Farrior, Troy). Bell and Porter didn't have the defense mastered, but Bell started as a rookie and Porter as a 2nd year player and they both made alot of plays.

[crimsonsteel]

In his press conference yesterday, Tomlin didn't say who will start. He did say however that he doesn't care "who comes out of the tunnel first" and that both guys will play in the base defense. It almost seemed to me that he was hinting that Timmons would start. Could be wrong.

[Hines57]

Timmons hasn't done anything to supplant Foote as the starter. Maybe he will change my mind with his play in the regular season. We will find out soon

[LetMePlay]

Timmons has flashed some explosion but Foote is steady. Its hard to bench steady in favor of potentially better. Not certainly better, but potentially better.

[steelrazor]

Exactly what I was hoping.

Wingrider, I see where you're coming from, but Foote was caught out of position quite a bit last year and he knows the defense

I don't know how anyone outside the Steeler organization could know this to be true. Ganted I'm sure that Foote missed some assignments as did everyone at times. Without know what each guys responsabilities is how do we know he was out of position? I can't recall the coaches after the game s saying he was out of position quite a bit.

[DaSwitz]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The coaches are seeing these guys every day. We see them a couple of times in preseason. People around here clamored on how the Steelers coaches were idiots for starting Clark over Smith as Smith was clearly the better athlete. Then when Smith was called to start, it exposed his weaknesses.

It's obvious that the coaches don't feel that Timmons game is complete enough right now to play full time. We love our conspiracy theorist around here, but the coaches are going to put the players on the field who they think gives them the best chance to win games. If you don't believe that, then you might as well just stop being a fan.

Is it possible their wrong? Sure. However, they see these guys every day. They study the tapes. They know what the players bring and don't bring.

Going back to Smith for a minute, there's no doubt he's the second most explosive safety we have. He had a knack for the ball and hits like a freight train. However, he's not disciplined enough. He gets out of position way too much. When he started last year, this was really exploited.

The coach staff must be seeing something in Timmons their not absolutely comfortable with. Hopefully Timmons will show them what they need. I want to see our best players playing. I keep hoping Timmons is one of them. He's certainly showed explosiveness. However, if he's making as many bad plays as he is good plays, then he shouldn't be starting.

[Wig]

I'm trying to remember if Foote is on the left or right middle spot? If he's right next to Woodley on the left then I wouldn't be surprised if Tomlin doesn't want two "fresh" starters in the same spot on one side of the defense.

Just a guess.

[Steelers.exe]

Patrick Willis started and should have been voted to the Pro Bowl in his 1st year. What's Timmon's problem?

Just put him on the field already.

[markymarc]

Guess that means Timmons is a bust now right :rolleyes: Tomlin already stated that Timmons will see time in the base defense too on Sunday. While he has not been officially named the starter I can live with this role for the first few weeks. This way he gets more playing time and chances to learn on the fly. At one point though you just have to let the kid play. His time will come soon enough.

[YoungSteel]

I think Tomlin may have a bias towards incumbent starters. From last year to this year, it seems just about every position battle, the returning starter ended up winning. One exception was Colon. Even with Mahan, he gave him his starting job back even though everybody knew Hartwig was going to eventually be the starter. I understand that he was only trying to give the appearance of making Hartwig earn it and not give it to him, but in reality it was just a charade and everybody knew it. Hartwig hardly even outperformed Mahan anyway. In that case the competition was pointless and it's little things like these that could erode a coach's credibility among players. These players are pros, they know the deal and understand the business, so acting too much like a high school coach isn't really going to help anybody.

But anyway aside from that tangent, I think it's just Tomlin's philosophy that young or new players have to really earn that spot, he won't just give it to them. I get it but I kind of disagree with it sometimes. In some cases, even if a young player hasn't totally proven they are better than an older vet, sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and go with them, banking on the talent that made them a high draft pick. A lot of times great talent will look better in games than it ever did in practice anyway.

[Avoid Lloyd1975]

Patrick Willis started and should have been voted to the Pro Bowl in his 1st year. What's Timmon's problem?

Just put him on the field already.

He did go to the Pro Bowl. I mean he only led the NFL in tackles.:cool::cool::cool: He should have been a Steeler...I wish.

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d8053b226&template=without-video&confirm=true

[Andymisiu]

I swear some people on this site are some of the biggest fucking idiots i've ever heard.

scott: How much time for Timmons on Sunday?

Ed Bouchette: Mike Tomlin said today he will rotate at ILB with him, Foote and Farrior. The latter two will start and Timmons plays next to Farrior in the nickel.

ai032003: Ed, why is Foote going to start over Timmons Sunday?

Ed Bouchette: I'm not sure, except to say that Foote isn't chopped liver and perhaps, for whatever reason, Mike Tomlin wants to ease Timmons into the lineup.

Have you been watching the pre-season? have you been watching anything?

Let me start off by saying that Foote and Timmons are BOTH starters. Foote just gets to be named the "starter" in the papers. Timmons will play just as much if not more than Foote when it's all said and done.

Foote is the veteran and has been a good player for the Steelers. Tomlin doesn't need to name Timmons the "starter" because he has the luxery of having Foote.

Only fucking idiots gauge a players worth by whether or not he's named the "starter". He doesn't need to be the "starter" to be a KEY part of the defense. Don't you read anything?

I guess Timmons is still a BUST in some of your mediocre football minds. I have become stupider after reading this thread and my blood pressure is rising, idiots.

Why? you ask? why? because Tomlin has decided not to name him the "starter". Why? why? you ask? because Foote is only good enough to play on 1st and 2nd downs, and isn't athletic enough or fast enough to play on 3rd downs, long downs, obvious pass rushing situations. Why? why? you ask? because we now have 3 capable starting ILB's that will allow us to keep everyone fresh. Why? because he doesn't NEED to be named the "starter" to have proven that he could be the "starter".

Do you really think that Timmons isn't of "starter" caliber because he's not named the "starter" in the paper? if you can't watch a game on your own and come up with your own assessment of a players worth or value, then fucking watch some more football!

Timmons and Foote are both the "starters" to answer your question.

[Smooth Criminal]

Timmons clearly outplayed Foote this preseason. There really is not reason he isn't the starter. I guess they don't want to make to many changes to a defense that was #1 last season.

Other than that I got nothing. Timmons looked much better than Foote.

[Coryea]

It would've been easier to just say Foote is now a two down LB, Timmons will play on passing downs.

[Avoid Lloyd1975]

Because Timmons has the athletic ability to play, but he doesn't have the know how or smarts about the position probably. Listening to him talk he sounds borderline retarded as is.

[Coryea]

Ben didn't know the offense all to well when he was forced into action and he did just fine.

[steelrazor]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The coaches are seeing these guys every day.

I guess someone on here gets it. I have said this for years to friends also. As fans we watch a player on the field during a game for what..20 minutes. These coaches are around them all week for hours. They watch them on the practice field and in the film room.

I don't know how succesful everyone is on this board but I do know there is alot of good Head coaches, off/def cordinators, line coaches, trainers, Directors of football operations and lastly field maintence crew posting on here.

[Andymisiu]

OK! can I address the rest of the idots who think he doesn't have the "know how" or doesn't know his assignments well enough yet, or don't think he has the defense down yet. Are you fucking serious? come on! he himself and James Harrison have stated that he has the defense down. He's not a dumb football player. He's got it down.

Can I ask a question of the people who think he doesn't have the system down yet or doesn't know his assignments?

answer me this...

Why would Tomlin and the coaching staff use a guy in the nickel package who doesn't know the system or his assignments?

It doesn't take a lot of system knowledge to stop the run. Don't you think it takes more system knowledge and knowing of your assignments to work within the nickel package. Don't you think you NEED to know your coverage assignment? don't you think you need to know the blitz scheme? do you think they would use a guy who didn't know his job in the nickle package? if you do, I officially call you an IDIOT!

answer it:

Why would Tomlin and the coaching staff use a guy in the nickel package who doesn't know the system or his assignments?

[Coryea]

wouldn't it get pretty boring around here if everyone just agreed with what the coaches did?

I mean Cowher thought Maddox and Batch were both better/more ready to play than Ben was in 2004, Batch was hurt in the preseason, Maddox in game two. Ben had to play, shouldn't Maddox have been put back in as the starter when he was healthy?

Belichick saw enough of Brady in practice and preseason over a year to have him the #3 guy heading into the 2001 season.

The coaches aren't always right.

[Andymisiu]

I think I remember reading that Timmons was going to be used as the linebacker in the dime defense too. But I guess you don't need to know your assignment or the system to play in the dime defense either.

[TWEEK1106]

OK! can I address the rest of the idots who think he doesn't have the "know how" or doesn't know his assignments well enough yet, or don't think he has the defense down yet. Are you fucking serious? come on! he himself and James Harrison have stated that he has the defense down. He's not a dumb football player. He's got it down.

Can I ask a question of the people who think he doesn't have the system down yet or doesn't know his assignments?

answer me this...

Why would Tomlin and the coaching staff use a guy in the nickel package who doesn't know the system or his assignments?

It doesn't take a lot of system knowledge to stop the run. Don't you think it takes more system knowledge and knowing of your assignments to work within the nickel package. Don't you think you NEED to know your coverage assignment? don't you think you need to know the blitz scheme? do you think they would use a guy who didn't know his job in the nickle package? if you do, I officially call you an IDIOT!

answer it:

Why would Tomlin and the coaching staff use a guy in the nickel package who doesn't know the system or his assignments?


sooooooooooo, what your saying is that Timmons is a better athlete AND knows the D just as well as Foote does, but just still isn't named starter?:confused:

wich is why i asked this question to begin with. if he's done SOOOOOO well then why isn't he in there 1st, 2nd and 3rd downs? with Foote to come in when he needs a breather?

i've actually warmed up to Timmons, and would have loved the pick.....a round or two later (i know he wouldn't have been there, but the pick was a reach at where we were drafting). i think eventually he'll contribute to this team in a meaningful way.

i just want to know what all these people who were so uber high on him throughout the offseason think about Foote getting the nod over Timmons. Cant blame it on being a rook anymore so what will it be now?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>see: Spike;)

[Super Heathen]

Patrick Willis started and should have been voted to the Pro Bowl in his 1st year. What's Timmon's problem?

Just put him on the field already.

You can't compare the two, it's not fair. Willis was a 4 year starter in College and a finished product. That aside, SF's sieve of a defense would have gladly welcomed ARNOLD Harrison into the fold if they had a chance.

Timmons was drafted as a very raw developmental player. Given the complexity of LeBeau's defense, nobody should be surprised that he is not quite finished yet. LeBeau, having been in football for 50 years, probably know's when a player is ready for FT action but that said, i'd like to see it happen now. What we might lose in knowledge would be offset by physical ability.

He'll be starting by mid-season.

[Steelerman]

Sometimes people forget that James Harrison was cut by another team and sat on the bench for a long damn time. Now look at him.

[steelrazor]

wouldn't it get pretty boring around here if everyone just agreed with what the coaches did? The coaches aren't always right.

Your right it would get boring. And you are right the coaches do make mistakes and bad decisions but...hindsight is always 20/20. I know one thing is for sure though, whether the outcome is good or bad the decisions are made to help win games. I always tell my friends that there are not any bad plays, just poor execution.

[Coryea]

for the record, I hated the Timmons pick, but I think he showed enough to be the starter.

[t-man]

Sometimes people forget that James Harrison was cut by another team and sat on the bench for a long damn time. Now look at him.

Nope. He couldn't beat out the starter so we should cut his ass now and get the starter. Hell, he couldn't beat out Porter, we should trade him even up to Miami for Peezy!

The logic of "the coaches see more of player x than me, so they must know better" is bull, plain and simple. If it were true, every time a starter went down due to injury, the second they were healthy they would be back in there. Touchdown Tommy? How about Staley? ?????

I know it's sometimes difficult to come to the conclusion that when someone looks better on the field in a game, they should be on the field in a game, but that's the way I see it.

Joe

[TWEEK1106]

You can't compare the two, it's not fair. Willis was a 4 year starter in College and a finished product. That aside, SF's sieve of a defense would have gladly welcomed ARNOLD Harrison into the fold if they had a chance.

Timmons was drafted as a very raw developmental player. Given the complexity of LeBeau's defense, nobody should be surprised that he is not quite finished yet. LeBeau, having been in football for 50 years, probably know's when a player is ready for FT action but that said, i'd like to see it happen now. What we might lose in knowledge would be offset by physical ability.

He'll be starting by mid-season.


:rolleyes: must be Deja vu...........................heard that exact quote last year.


Sometimes people forget that James Harrison was cut by another team and sat on the bench for a long damn time. Now look at him.


now would you be happy if you were that other team? if you draft a guy in the middle of the 1st round and he takes until his 5th-6th year to become starter material (no matter how awesome he is after that time) does that make him a bust?

[Super Heathen]

[QUOTE=TWEEK1106;242963]:rolleyes: must be Deja vu...........................heard that exact quote last year.
QUOTE]

You didn't hear it from me. He wasn't near ready.

[Steelerman]

I like this quote from Tomlin in todays paper on this exact issue:


"I couldn't care less who runs out of the tunnel. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that those three play football for us because they're playmakers. You'll see that on Sunday."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08247/908897-66.stm

The fact is that it doesn't matter one goddamn bit who's on the field for the first snap. Timmons will get a shit load of time on Sunday.

[CornerBlitz]

Foote cant cover, cant chase down rb's and when he gets a wide open blitz lane ,whiffs as often as he gets a hit, he is a backup

Timmons was the 15th pick in the draft, he will not become the star we all anticipate,sitting on the bench,

This decision is easy-Timmons all 3 downs, like whenTtroy sat a year behind Brett Alexander, then was given a shot, you gotta put your day one guys on the field
If a 1st rd pick cant start in year 2 ahead of a cement shoed vet,the scouts need fired

The NFL is a speed league and Foote may be the slowest LB in the league, put him back on special teams where maybe we can get some value out of the stiff.

[Super Heathen]

I like this quote from Tomlin in todays paper on this exact issue:


"I couldn't care less who runs out of the tunnel. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that those three play football for us because they're playmakers. You'll see that on Sunday."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08247/908897-66.stm

The fact is that it doesn't matter one goddamn bit who's on the field for the first snap. Timmons will get a shit load of time on Sunday.

Yep! I don't see what all the fuss is about. We have 2 players at one position who can help this defense and the younger player is almost ready to take over full time. WTF can be wrong about this scenario?

[Steelerman]

WTF can be wrong about this scenario?

I wish I knew. We play a lot of extremely good offenses this year so having fresh legs at the LB position throuout the game will surely come in handy.

[Andymisiu]

Anyone could come in and be a starter on the f’ing 49ers! We are the Pittsburgh Steelers! Whose team do you think it’s easier to come in and be the “starter” for?

Why do I keep putting starter in quotes? Because what does that really mean? you get your picture shown in the beginning of games and get to say what college your from! big fucking deal.

Who’s the “starter” in Jacksonville Fred Taylor or Jones-Drew?

Both Foote and Timmons will split time at the linebacker position. What’s the big fucking deal with Timmons being named the “starter’. He’s going to play just as much if not more than Foote and will more than likely be your “starter” at some point during the season.

I think it’s great that we drafted someone of the caliber of Timmons to come in and give Farrior or Foote a blow and have no drop off in talent on the field. Timmons will play plenty, don’t worry about that.

“sooooooooooo, what your saying is that Timmons is a better athlete AND knows the D just as well as Foote does, but just still isn't named starter?”

That’s exactly what I’m saying and if you’ve been watching, you would be saying the same thing. The actual controversy should really be against the coaching staff for not naming him the “starter” to please people like you. But I’m ok with the role Timmons will be playing.

I have been on the forefront of this debate since last year. For that reason I have watched Timmons on every single pre-season snap and have found nothing, NOTHING that says he shouldn’t be the “starter”. He has been in the right place and flying around the ball on every play.

This is why I’m fine with saying that we have three “starting” inside linebackers.

Good for us!

[Andymisiu]

I like this quote from Tomlin in todays paper on this exact issue:


"I couldn't care less who runs out of the tunnel. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that those three play football for us because they're playmakers. You'll see that on Sunday."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08247/908897-66.stm

The fact is that it doesn't matter one goddamn bit who's on the field for the first snap. Timmons will get a shit load of time on Sunday.

Thank You!!!

Linebacker playing time

Larry Foote will start his fifth season at inside linebacker, but Tomlin promised that Lawrence Timmons will play in the base 3-4 defense as well as the nickel.

"The thing is with those guys we're blessed with great depth at the linebacker position," Tomlin said. "Those guys are going to play for us -- James Farrior, Larry Foote and Lawrence Timmons.

"I couldn't care less who runs out of the tunnel. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that those three play football for us because they're playmakers. You'll see that on Sunday."

see! we have three starting inside linebackers!! jesus! idiots!!

[Coryea]

yeah, they are both going to split time, but no one will be splitting time with Farrior, Harrison, or Woodley to keep them fresh. I want my best play makers on the field as much as possible.

[BillvinCowbert]

I care who the "starter" is because, frankly, I don't want them to split time. I want Timmons to play the vast majority of the snaps. That's not a difficult concept to understand.

And no, we don't have "three starters"....

[Andymisiu]

I care who the "starter" is because, frankly, I don't want them to split time. I want Timmons to play the vast majority of the snaps. That's not a difficult concept to understand.

And no, we don't have "three starters"....

I want Timmons on every down too.

and why don't we?

If a starter in named the "starter" and only plays the first down of the game, does that make the guy who plays the rest of the game in his place any less of a starter?

teams platoon guys at positions all the time, but only one of them can be named the "starter".

[TWEEK1106]

I want Timmons on every down too.

and why don't we?

If a starter in named the "starter" and only plays the first down of the game, does that make the guy who plays the rest of the game in his place any less of a starter?

teams platoon guys at positions all the time, but only one of them can be named the "starter".


there are NOT 3 starters on this team.

there are 2.

James Farrior

and

Larry Foote.

PERIOD!

most of the time, when teams rotate players at a position it's for 1 of 2 reasons. #1. those players are both poor excuses at their position and there is real no good answer. #2. those players are both good and on about the same skill level as each other.

what you're saying is that foote=timmons and there is no drop off in production, wich i would say is a bad thing if it's true............cause we invested too much for that to be the case.

or

that you truly know better than our D coordinator that timmons is better and should rightfully be the starter, but the coaches are just being stubborn.

[Andymisiu]

ahh, this is a dumb argument. As long as the Steelers are winning games I don't give a shit who's on the field. If they start losing more than they win then I'll start questioning the staff and it's players.

I'll let Timmons and the staff finish this argument for me. See me in week six.

Timmons IS better and WILL be the starter, PERIOD.

[Andymisiu]

and if we're winning games, then why does it matter who the "starter" is? if we're making the right moves on defense and still playing as the number one unit of last year, then why does it matter who the "starter" is? as long as everyone know's there roll and is playing at a high level, I don't care who is the "starter".

[BillvinCowbert]

and if we're winning games, then why does it matter who the "starter" is? if we're making the right moves on defense and still playing as the number one unit of last year, then why does it matter who the "starter" is? as long as everyone know's there roll and is playing at a high level, I don't care who is the "starter".

Define "winning games"....is that 9-7, 12-4, or 15-1... does it "matter" if we start the season hot and lose 4 of our last 5? What if we did that and still had the #1 defense? What if you have the #1 defense, you're 10-6, but you could be BETTER with different guys out there? Then does it matter?

I guess I have a different attitude that a lot of people... even when I'm doing well, and things are good, I want to be BETTER. Why be satisfied with good?

If we can be very good and 11-5 with Foote starting all year, but we can be 10-6, but trending to great with Timmons starting all year, I'd take the latter EVERY time.

If Tommy Maddox never gets injured, we don't win the Super Bowl in 2005, because Ben would have been making rookie mistakes in 2005 instead of 2004.

The ONLY way to truly learn is on-the-job. Some of the GREATEST learning experiences are the mistakes you make along the way. I remember walking out of the RCA Dome on a Monday night in 2005 saying that the loss was the best thing that could have happened; they had to learn from their mistakes.

[Andymisiu]

Define "winning games"....is that 9-7, 12-4, or 15-1... does it "matter" if we start the season hot and lose 4 of our last 5? What if we did that and still had the #1 defense? What if you have the #1 defense, you're 10-6, but you could be BETTER with different guys out there? Then does it matter?

I guess I have a different attitude that a lot of people... even when I'm doing well, and things are good, I want to be BETTER. Why be satisfied with good?

If we can be very good and 11-5 with Foote starting all year, but we can be 10-6, but trending to great with Timmons starting all year, I'd take the latter EVERY time.

If Tommy Maddox never gets injured, we don't win the Super Bowl in 2005, because Ben would have been making rookie mistakes in 2005 instead of 2004.

The ONLY way to truly learn is on-the-job. Some of the GREATEST learning experiences are the mistakes you make along the way. I remember walking out of the RCA Dome on a Monday night in 2005 saying that the loss was the best thing that could have happened; they had to learn from their mistakes.


I don't think you've been reading my posts very often. I'M A TIMMONS SUPPORTER!!

everything I've been arguing for is backing Timmons and justifying his draft pick. every post I write is backing Timmons and stating that he should be the "starter".

The reason I'm taking the route of "it's ok to be sharing time with Foote" is because people on here are saying that Timmons is a BUST because he hasn't beaten Foote out for the "starting" job. And I DISAGREE with that statement full heartedly.

If the coaching staff for whatever reason wants Foote in there to "start" the game, it doesn't mean that Timmons is not a cabable "starter". I've watched the pre season and Timmons is better than Foote plain and simple.

So lets just make sure we're on the same page here. Because it sounds like we're both pro Timmons.

[Andymisiu]

Has anyone thought of the fact that, by naming Foote the starter other teams don't know when or in what capacity Timmons will be used on defense. Doesn't that make it harder for teams to gameplan against us and Timmons ability? Timmons is an obvious talent and could for sure be the starter. Dick has something up his sleave and there is a method to his madness.

[BillvinCowbert]

I don't think you've been reading my posts very often. I'M A TIMMONS SUPPORTER!!

everything I've been arguing for is backing Timmons and justifying his draft pick. every post I write is backing Timmons and stating that he should be the "starter".

The reason I'm taking the route of "it's ok to be sharing time with Foote" is because people on here are saying that Timmons is a BUST because he hasn't beaten Foote out for the "starting" job. And I DISAGREE with that statement full heartedly.

If the coaching staff for whatever reason wants Foote in there to "start" the game, it doesn't mean that Timmons is not a cabable "starter". I've watched the pre season and Timmons is better than Foote plain and simple.

So lets just make sure we're on the same page here. Because it sounds like we're both pro Timmons.


Yeah, but I don't think people are calling Timmons a bust; I think people are calling out the coaching staff. Wasn't there a poll here a week or two back with 90%+ saying Timmons should start?

I've been a pretty big Tomlin supporter, but the guy needs to have some stones and stand up and say "Timmons won this job"... he can do it without putting down Foote, he can do it without trying to pretend there isn't a starter. For crying out loud, I just want him to show some backbone. If you declare something a competition, tell us who won the job, don't be a pansy and use double-talk.

How about something like "Lawrence really stepped up this off-season and came into camp on a mission and he's won the right to start week one. Larry is an important part of this football team and we're going to be counting on him to make some major contributions."

It's really not that difficult to just put it out there....

[Stryker]

I have been on the forefront of this debate since last year. For that reason I have watched Timmons on every single pre-season snap and have found nothing, NOTHING that says he shouldn’t be the “starter”. He has been in the right place and flying around the ball on every play.

Being on the forefront of the Timmons debate is freakin CLASSIC!! lol.

I disagree with your debate tactics, but I agree with your point about Timmons.

Thanks for the chuckle Andy!

[steelrazor]

I'm "pro" whomever kicks some ass and takes some names.

I do feel that Foote may just be a little better all around at the moment. I do feel that Timmons will be heads and shoulders above Foote by mid season. I think he has much better physical attributes than Foote but is still thinking too much about what he is doing. (as most young players do). After a few games he should start playing on instinct instead of reacting to what the offense is doing.

But as stated by many the only thing that matters is wins / losses not who is starting.

[deljzc]

Put me in the camp that the term "starter" isn't that important.

The modern NFL is morphing more and more towards defenses that use 13 or 14 guys in a variety of ways. Even Hampton is his good era wasn't playing every snap. Aaron Smith doesn't play every snap.

Bill Belichick has so many combinations, he's not even using the defensive headset/radio because he can't find two guys not on the field at the same time ever.

I'm just going to trust that as long as Foote is on this team, there is some down-and-distance situations he might be better than Timmons. Or Timmons is not ready for every situation Lebeau wants to throw at offenses. I know people are down on Foote, but he's not a scrub player either. He's good at something I assume.

I think this is a great situation for Timmons. He always appeared a bit like a deer in headlights so far in his career and he's still the third youngest player on the team. He's made huge strides between year one and year two in my opinion. I don't want the pressure of replacing a veteran like Foote (who the veterans in the locker room probably like) to stand in the way of his development or cause added pressure that isn't necessary.

The decision to let Timmons performance in real NFL games determine the amount of time he gets on the field seems a solid decision to me by the coaching staff. Preseason doesn't cut it for me and it probably doesn't count a lot to the guys on the team either. But as he starts to perform in games in big situations, then we can talk about more and more playing time.

[insaniti]

Ben didn't know the offense all to well when he was forced into action and he did just fine.

we also didnt have much of a choice BUT to go with Ben in that situation, and once a player gets hot, you stick with whats hot. as its been pointed out, just because he wont have his picture on TV with the rest of the "starters", he will get LOTS of playing time, if not more than Foote.

[Supersteeler]

I was going to post a real response....since I was called out and all, but it really isn't worth my time.

The only thing this thread has made me do is entertain the possibility that someone may be harboring some latent homosexual feelings about Mr. Timmons and is trying to come to grips with them by obsessing with extreme negativity towards him at every turn. I've seen many players disliked, but this is bordering on fatal attraction territory. Only explanation I can think of to explain this degree of the feelings that are repeatedly shown when this topic comes up.

[Steelerman]

I've seen many players disliked, but this is bordering on fatal attraction territory.

Just wait until his first regular season missed tackle. It's absolutely fucking amazing how some people around here have short memories. Look at most of our previous first rounders and see how they fared in their first season compared to their second..

[Andymisiu]

Put me in the camp that the term "starter" isn't that important.

The modern NFL is morphing more and more towards defenses that use 13 or 14 guys in a variety of ways. Even Hampton is his good era wasn't playing every snap. Aaron Smith doesn't play every snap.

Bill Belichick has so many combinations, he's not even using the defensive headset/radio because he can't find two guys not on the field at the same time ever.

I'm just going to trust that as long as Foote is on this team, there is some down-and-distance situations he might be better than Timmons. Or Timmons is not ready for every situation Lebeau wants to throw at offenses. I know people are down on Foote, but he's not a scrub player either. He's good at something I assume.

I think this is a great situation for Timmons. He always appeared a bit like a deer in headlights so far in his career and he's still the third youngest player on the team. He's made huge strides between year one and year two in my opinion. I don't want the pressure of replacing a veteran like Foote (who the veterans in the locker room probably like) to stand in the way of his development or cause added pressure that isn't necessary.

The decision to let Timmons performance in real NFL games determine the amount of time he gets on the field seems a solid decision to me by the coaching staff. Preseason doesn't cut it for me and it probably doesn't count a lot to the guys on the team either. But as he starts to perform in games in big situations, then we can talk about more and more playing time.

I can agree with this post.

[Balls&YourWord]

He'll have most likely just as many snaps as Hampton gets, and will probably become the official starter at some point, although as others have said it really doesn't matter as long as the game snaps are there. I'm tired of all the arguing over this, and I'm excited to see how he's going to play.

[kurtistb]

Yeah, but I don't think people are calling Timmons a bust; I think people are calling out the coaching staff. Wasn't there a poll here a week or two back with 90%+ saying Timmons should start?


Actually I remember a thread during the offseason where a few people were pretty emphatic in their belief that Timmons was a bust if he didn't win the "starting" job out of training camp; an position I thought was a couple steps below moronic.

Put me in the camp that the term "starter" isn't that important.

The modern NFL is morphing more and more towards defenses that use 13 or 14 guys in a variety of ways. Even Hampton is his good era wasn't playing every snap. Aaron Smith doesn't play every snap.

Bill Belichick has so many combinations, he's not even using the defensive headset/radio because he can't find two guys not on the field at the same time ever.

I'm just going to trust that as long as Foote is on this team, there is some down-and-distance situations he might be better than Timmons. Or Timmons is not ready for every situation Lebeau wants to throw at offenses. I know people are down on Foote, but he's not a scrub player either. He's good at something I assume.

I think this is a great situation for Timmons. He always appeared a bit like a deer in headlights so far in his career and he's still the third youngest player on the team. He's made huge strides between year one and year two in my opinion. I don't want the pressure of replacing a veteran like Foote (who the veterans in the locker room probably like) to stand in the way of his development or cause added pressure that isn't necessary.

The decision to let Timmons performance in real NFL games determine the amount of time he gets on the field seems a solid decision to me by the coaching staff. Preseason doesn't cut it for me and it probably doesn't count a lot to the guys on the team either. But as he starts to perform in games in big situations, then we can talk about more and more playing time.

you hit it dead on

[Steelersrule]

I am kinda keen on Timmons is the finisher!

[NC_Steel]

Ok, which one of you guys is now writing for the Tribune-Review?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/viewfromthepressbox/show_comments.php?entry_id=3143

Foote vs. Timmons
Posted September 3, 2008 7 :30 PM

Larry Foote or Lawrence Timmons as the Steelers' starting right inside linebacker?

Does it even matter? Not to coach Mike Tomlin.

"I could care less who runs out of that tunnel," Tomlin said of the pre-game ritual at Heinz Field that is done for the starters on offense or defense. "That's irrelevant. We're blessed with great depth at the linebacker position and those guys are going to play for us."

It's funny how the same people that labeled Lawrence Timmons as the next Alonzo Jackson seem just as quick to buy Larry Foote a one-way ticket out of town (or at least a one-way ticket to the bench) so Timmons can have the position all to himself.

What exactly is the rush here? Foote is still a solid linebacker, particularly against the run. And as good and as explosive as Timmons looked at times during the preseason, the second-year man is still a work in progress.

He is not the next Alonzo Jackson, one of the biggest busts in Steelers history. But let's hold off on anointing him the next L.T. for now. Let the kid grow into greatness he seems destined for, and the best way to do that is by playing Timmons a lot this season but not necessarily starting him.

Timmons' versatility allows the Steelers to do just that.

He can play inside, which he'll do on most passing downs, and he can also play outside since the 15th overall pick of the 2007 draft is athletic enough to drop back into coverage as well as rush the quarterback.

It has been pretty clear for awhile now that Timmons will be used in much the same way a sixth man is in basketball. There is nothing wrong with that considering he is still a relatively young -- Timmons only played three seasons at Florida State -- and considering that the 6-1, 234-pounder doesn't appear to have a problem with such a role.

When asked if he wants to start because of the competitor in him, Timmons said, "Nobody is selfish like that."

Maybe that is because he knows his time is coming, and sooner rather than later.

Foote is well aware of it.

When asked if he considers himself the starter at right inside linebacker Foote said, "That's why way I'm approaching it but we'll let that stuff unfold."

Yes, let it happen instead of forcing it to happen.

If Timmons proves to superior to Foote, he'll eventually supplant him in the starting lineup. Right now, though, there appears to be room for both of them.

And that, as Tomlin said, is a good thing for the Steelers.

E-mail • Print • Permalink

[Andymisiu]

Amen! Foote is good, Timmons is good, the Steelers are good!

[Quick Draw]

The Steelers drafted guys who were bigger, stronger and faster than Larry Foote, but they never found one who could take his job away from him.

[t-man]

that you truly know better than our D coordinator that timmons is better and should rightfully be the starter, but the coaches are just being stubborn.

See Brady, Tom (former backup)
Also- Parker, Willie

?? So, if a guy doesn't start right away he's a bust? This argument doesn't get any better with age ya know.

Coaches can be overly cautious, especially when a player comes along and is injured out of the gate, I think that's what we are seeing here.

Joe

[60 MINUTES]

I think there are at least some teams and coaches around the league that believe in treating someone with respect. We are one of those teams. Thats point one,

Point two Foote is solid, and timmons is still learning a bit.

Point Three if no injuries are in play Timmons will be playing 75 percent of the time by week 8. No disrespect to Foote again he is solid but Timmons is a D league MVP type talent. Give this guy just a bit more to learn where he is going and you will see why tomlin hung his first pick in history on this guy. Anyone that can't see his talent is pretty fucking dumb. If no injuries talk to me after the season.

Now by saying that let me one more time say that we are lucky to have Larry foote and I think he will cont... to be a very important part of the steelers. He is very good but and good enough to start for alot of teams but Timmons is one of those rare players that come along and have everything. You will see him be talked about as one of the best MLB in the league over the next couple of years. If NO INJURY happens.

[Steelers.exe]

Guess we keep looking over the fact that Foote must have stepped up his game with Timmons looking over his shoulder. That is a good thing. With the addition of a well playing Fox, we are DEEP at ILB.

[TWEEK1106]

See Brady, Tom (former backup)
Also- Parker, Willie

?? So, if a guy doesn't start right away he's a bust? This argument doesn't get any better with age ya know.

Coaches can be overly cautious, especially when a player comes along and is injured out of the gate, I think that's what we are seeing here.

Joe


never called him a bust. just asked if this meant that timmons isn't as good as we expected of foote is better than expected.

then everybody threw a shit fit and started their tirades.

[Andymisiu]

never called him a bust. just asked if this meant that timmons isn't as good as we expected of foote is better than expected.

then everybody threw a shit fit and started their tirades.

because this is an old argument around here rook.

[Jitter]

I think we should be more concerned about woodleys disappearence in the preseason rather than worrying about having 3 capable starters at ILB. I do think its ridiculous to say that timmons will be talked about as one of the best MLBs in a few years and think he can be a D MVP. Sure he has talent but he is totally unproven. There is a lot more to football than just being extremely athletic. You are basing your opinions on a few pre-season games wait till he does it in real games.... Even Farrior said he is still learning things about the D so I dont think there is any way that timmons understands it as much as foote.

[CornerBlitz]

Guess we keep looking over the fact that Foote must have stepped up his game with Timmons looking over his shoulder. That is a good thing. With the addition of a well playing Fox, we are DEEP at ILB.

Foote was awful in the preseason,getting abused on pass routes, slow to non existent filling a hole on running plays and always slow to the ball , Typical Foote, he lacks the physical abilities to elevate his game, he is what he is, the slowest, most unathletic starting LB in the game.

[Andymisiu]

I think we should be more concerned about woodleys disappearence in the preseason rather than worrying about having 3 capable starters at ILB. I do think its ridiculous to say that timmons will be talked about as one of the best MLBs in a few years and think he can be a D MVP. Sure he has talent but he is totally unproven. There is a lot more to football than just being extremely athletic. You are basing your opinions on a few pre-season games wait till he does it in real games.... Even Farrior said he is still learning things about the D so I dont think there is any way that timmons understands it as much as foote.

Some people noticed that we were only bull rushing to get to the quarterback on our pre season blitzes. Also, we didn't really use a true blitz scheme to get to the quarterback. I too would have liked to have seen more from Woodley, but I think they are saving that for the regular season. Wouldn't want to give the other team any real moves to look at on tape before the first game. As far as Timmons goes, yeah, it's a little early to put him in the hall of fame. But he will be a great player on this team.

[TWEEK1106]

Foote was awful in the preseason,getting abused on pass routes, slow to non existent filling a hole on running plays and always slow to the ball , Typical Foote, he lacks the physical abilities to elevate his game, he is what he is, the slowest, most unathletic starting LB in the game.



it's this kind of statement ^^^^ that made me pose this question in the first place.

alot of people take this same way of thinking. that Foote is mediocre at best. so what does it mean when someone isn't better (i.e.-starter) than someone regularly described as mediocre?

does that mean either Timmons coming along as fast as was expected, or does it mean the coaches simply don't know what they are doing?

it HAS to mean either one or the other.

if it's the first, then fine.....i have no problem with a guy taking 2 1/2 - 3 yrs to develope, but then i wish the Foote bashing or the Timmons cheerleaders would go away until that time.

there is a definate reason why Foote, with a sprained knee, is starting this game over Timmons. there has got to be a definate reason why Foote is on the field at all with how highly touted Timmons is by some of you guys.

i just want to know if timmons isn't ready (wich while i don't lable a bust, i do lable as dissapointing), or if you guys just think our coaches are D bags and doing this because they don't know what you think you know..........."that timmons is already heads and tails above foote".

[Coryea]

I think we should be more concerned about woodleys disappearence in the preseason rather than worrying about having 3 capable starters at ILB. I do think its ridiculous to say that timmons will be talked about as one of the best MLBs in a few years and think he can be a D MVP. Sure he has talent but he is totally unproven. There is a lot more to football than just being extremely athletic. You are basing your opinions on a few pre-season games wait till he does it in real games.... Even Farrior said he is still learning things about the D so I dont think there is any way that timmons understands it as much as foote.

So we're complaining about Woodley in the preseason when we run a vanilla defense and in 4 games he plays maybe the equivalent of one full game??? He had 10 tackles and a sack, and I can think of at least two occassions where he forced the QB to step up or scramble resulting in a sack by Keisel and I can't remember the other one.
He also had 4 sack in a very limited role last season as a rookie and two sacks in the playoff game. I don't see where there is reason for concern at all when it comes to Woodley, shit he matched Haggans sack output for last year and Haggans played a ton more than Woodley.

[Andymisiu]

it's this kind of statement ^^^^ that made me pose this question in the first place.

alot of people take this same way of thinking. that Foote is mediocre at best. so what does it mean when someone isn't better (i.e.-starter) than someone regularly described as mediocre?

does that mean either Timmons coming along as fast as was expected, or does it mean the coaches simply don't know what they are doing?

it HAS to mean either one or the other.

if it's the first, then fine.....i have no problem with a guy taking 2 1/2 - 3 yrs to develope, but then i wish the Foote bashing or the Timmons cheerleaders would go away until that time.

there is a definate reason why Foote, with a sprained knee, is starting this game over Timmons. there has got to be a definate reason why Foote is on the field at all with how highly touted Timmons is by some of you guys.

i just want to know if timmons isn't ready (wich while i don't lable a bust, i do lable as dissapointing), or if you guys just think our coaches are D bags and doing this because they don't know what you think you know..........."that timmons is already heads and tails above foote".

Foote was not horrible in the pre season. It’s hard to cover guys when there is no pressure being put on the quarterback by the defense. This is what happens in the pre season because the Steelers don’t want to show any new looks or schemes to the offensives they face. Foote has been a solid starter for the Steelers and our defense has ranked near the top every year with him as a starter. We don’t need to put Timmons in the starting lineup just yet. We can ease him into the lineup. Will Timmons be better or his he already better? I think so, but that’s just me.

Timmons is going to be used in many different ways this year which will keep opposing offenses on there toes. Timmons will be a fresh pair of pass rushing legs when he steps on the field. He will be fresh in coverage and pass rushing. I think they don’t want to “rock the boat” and are going with the “if it’s not broke don’t fix it” mentality. Like someone said earlier “we respect our players”. I think that Timmons is being used as the 6th man so to speak, or the 12th starter on defense. He’ll be used all over the place giving opposing teams plenty to think about.

Foote being named the starter doesn’t allow the opposing offenses to effectively game plan against Timmons. He will be a surprise to most teams who face him this year. It’s better to bring Timmons in place of Foote because his presence (Timmons) will create confusion for the opposing offense. If Foote were used in the same way it wouldn’t throw offenses off at all because you know what you’re going to get with him. Opposing teams will not know what to do or think when Timmons comes in the game. He can drop back in coverage or blitz and that is going to create a lot of havoc for offenses this year.

Timmons is going to get just as much if not more playing time that Foote because of the way he’s going to be used this year. He’s not only going to play inside but he’s going to play outside and you might even see him lineup as a safety in a unique blitz scheme.

So to answer your question, I think it’s his versatility and the unique chaos he’ll create in the many ways they want to use him. Your not going to be able to plan for this guy and I am for one excited about it. Combined with the fact that Foote is and has been solid for us gives us the flexibility to use him in this manor and not jam him in the “starting” lineup.

Chaos my friend and confusion are the answers to your question. Dick LeBeau is no fool.

[Avoid Lloyd1975]

The Steelers drafted guys who were bigger, stronger and faster than Larry Foote, but they never found one who could take his job away from him.

You have got to be shitting me! That is F'd up to even put Foote even near the same semblance as Lambert. Good timing on the post. Trust me I am laughing.

[Irv24]

I hate to be the one to say this, but I have not seen Timmons beat out Foote.
Yes, he made a few nice hits after guys caught the ball in preseason, but I have not seen him make a play. I have not seen anything NEAR MVP level football. I think he is learning, but my guess is the coaches do not think he is ready to be on the field everydown.

[Supersteeler]

I hate to be the one to say this, but I have not seen Timmons beat out Foote.
Yes, he made a few nice hits after guys caught the ball in preseason, but I have not seen him make a play. I have not seen anything NEAR MVP level football. I think he is learning, but my guess is the coaches do not think he is ready to be on the field everydown.

I'm not even going with the MVP talk, that's silly at this point. However, aside from making tackles he also broke up a TD pass 20 yards downfield in the one pore season game. Can't say I recall seeing Foote do that ever. I am not a Foote hater either. I think he is a serviceable NFL LB, we could do worse.

[FREAKofSTEEL08]

will some of the Timmons's cheerleaders please tell me why he has yet to lock down the starting job over Foote? all i ever hear from people like superhomer (and a couple others) is NOTHING but rah rah cheering about how athletic and explosive he is and yet he has still not unseated Foote (who is called the "definition of mediocre" by at least 1 of those cheerleaders, and called alot worse by most of the others).

just asking,

maybe Foote isn't that bad, or maybe Timmons isn't that good.....what do you think?


I am not a Timmons cheerleader... But my bet is Foote is a better PLAYER ...Timmons may be a better Athlete. But Larry Knows the Defense the reads and isnt yet a liability. Timmons needs to be a quicker study !

[Andymisiu]

funny how everyone thinks Timmons isn't a quick study. How does anyone know that? he's probably had to learn more than any other rookie on the team the past two years outside of Dixon, maybe. He's had to learn the outside LB position and then the inside LB position. I don't think it has anything to do with his knowledge of the defense. You guys act like it takes years to get this stuff down. It takes one training camp. He knows the defense.

Answer me this question:

Give me one quote from this offseason from the Steelers staff that says he's struggling to learn the defense or he's still learning the system. Give me one.

All I've heard them say is how he's got this shit down and is ready to PLAY.

[Hines57]

Your affection for Timmons borders on the same crazy affection Koryea shows for Kobe

[Andymisiu]

Your affection for Timmons borders on the same crazy affection Koryea shows for Kobe

It's not just about Timmons anymore. It's about the stupid ass arguments and reasoning people are using to back there arguments. It's about the constant push to call him a BUST if he's not the "starter".

[markymarc]

But Larry Knows the Defense the reads and isnt yet a liability.

So what is Larry's excuse when he gets beat in coverage, can't shed a block or make a tackle in the open field.

[LeBeauMustGo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The coaches are seeing these guys every day. We see them a couple of times in preseason. People around here clamored on how the Steelers coaches were idiots for starting Clark over Smith as Smith was clearly the better athlete. Then when Smith was called to start, it exposed his weaknesses.

It's obvious that the coaches don't feel that Timmons game is complete enough right now to play full time. We love our conspiracy theorist around here, but the coaches are going to put the players on the field who they think gives them the best chance to win games. If you don't believe that, then you might as well just stop being a fan.

Is it possible their wrong? Sure. However, they see these guys every day. They study the tapes. They know what the players bring and don't bring.

Going back to Smith for a minute, there's no doubt he's the second most explosive safety we have. He had a knack for the ball and hits like a freight train. However, he's not disciplined enough. He gets out of position way too much. When he started last year, this was really exploited.

The coach staff must be seeing something in Timmons their not absolutely comfortable with. Hopefully Timmons will show them what they need. I want to see our best players playing. I keep hoping Timmons is one of them. He's certainly showed explosiveness. However, if he's making as many bad plays as he is good plays, then he shouldn't be starting.
If what you said is true, explain to me why Cowher would never had payed Ben as a rookie over Maddox until Maddox got hurt. How wrong was he and how did that turn out. To say the coaches are always right is just ridiculous.

[TWEEK1106]

your Affection For Timmons Borders On The Same Crazy Affection Koryea Shows For Kobe

lol, that was a cheap shot.

true, but cheap.

[Coryea]

Your affection for Timmons borders on the same crazy affection Koryea shows for Kobe

Or you for Larry Foote.

[Andymisiu]

lol, that was a cheap shot.

true, but cheap.

That's not a cheap shot at all! I stand behind my point of view and will argue it to the end. All the way until you haters are chewing on your words and realize you have misguided, minuscule, ill-informed, feeble football minds. Unless things are spelled out for you, you are unable to generate your own conclusion, hense the reason for your post.

oh! by the way! there are still Foote jerseys available for purchase, or maybe you can see just as everyone else that within the next year, you'll probably be wearing a Timmons jersey.

But don't worry. You can come back to this site and create a thread.

"Timmons is a starter now is it ok to like him?"

[TWEEK1106]

So what is Larry's excuse when he gets beat in coverage, can't shed a block or make a tackle in the open field.

Or you for Larry Foote.


see, both of you are missing my point.:mad:

i don't love larry foote, in fact.....i take the position of most people do on the subject of him. he's been a reliable and dependable starter but lacks the ability and speed to be a difference maker.

my point is..........if larry foote "he gets beat in coverage, can't shed a block or make a tackle in the open field." and timmons hasn't been able to surplant him as starter then what does that mean? this can mean ONLY one of two things. so you tell me wich it is................

#1-is it good? cause Foote isn't as bad as everyone wants to label him, and now we have 2 quality LBs at that position?

#2-is it bad? cause Timmons can't beat out someone who "he gets beat in coverage, can't shed a block or make a tackle in the open field."?

if it's #1, then fine..........but everyone stop the Foote bashing.

if it's #2, then fine..........but everyone stop the Timmons cheerleading.

i also look at Woodley to gauge Timmons's progress, Woodley (drafted a full round after Timmons) has without a doubt taken over his position over a solid, but not flashy (see Foote) Clark Haggans......who would have been resigned if there were any questions of who was better out on the field.

so, is it #1 or #2...........any other answer is just dodging the question.

[Smooth Criminal]

Out of those options its easily number 1. Foote has been good for awhile. People just want Timmons to get more plays on the field because he has the ability to be an absolute game changer, something that Foote really doesn't do.

[Coryea]

I'm not missing the point, I was just ragging on Hines57 a little.

[Hines57]

Or you for Larry Foote.
Affection for Larry Foote? I respect Foote. I realize he's eventually going to lose his starting job and that's fine. Problem is everyone wants to accelerate that process instead of letting Timmons take the spot away from Foote.

[Andymisiu]

#1 for sure. I think Foote is a good player, just not great. I think Timmons is a great player who is good right now. We are in a good position with a deep LB core.

The thing that makes me angry is when people start saying he's a "disapointment" or a "bust" because he hasn't been given the starting job over Foote. Becasue this is simply not the case.

[Hines57]

#1 for sure. I think Foote is a good player, just not great. I think Timmons is a great player who is good right now. We are in a good position with a deep LB core.

The thing that makes me angry is when people start saying he's a "disapointment" or a "bust" because he hasn't been given the starting job over Foote. Becasue this is simply not the case.
Timmons is a great athlete, he has yet to prove that he is a "great" player. Your excitement for his potential is commended but you also need to take a step back and realize that Larry Foote is an established vet and Timmons is not going to take his spot based on his potential. When Timmons makes plays on the field (regular season) and proves to the coaches he can outperform Foote then he deserves to take that spot. Until then, he's a backup.

[Andymisiu]

Another problem people have around here with Timmons is where he was drafted. They just simply don't like the pick at all. It's not that they really have something agains Timmons, they just hate the pick. The problem with that thinking is there not taking the circumstances for what they were when he was drafted. Let me fill you in.

1. We were in NEED of a linebacker to take over for Porter when he left. Timmons was the guy. We did not have a player on the team to take that position so we had a NEED to draft one. The staff saw the speed and rushing ability of Timmons and thought he was that guy.

What happened?

2. Timmons got injured in training camp and couldn't take place in workouts or practices. James Harrison who no one saw coming stepped up and played like a beast. If the staff knew that Harrsion was going to play at the level he did last year, we might not have drafted Timmons, we might have drafted someone different in the first round. In hindsight (which most people see in) is why people argue we needed a lineman at this pick and not an outside linebacker, but when you look at it. We had a true NEED at both. The staff simply liked the upside and talent of Timmons at linebacker better than the offensive lineman that were available in the first round. So we filled the need of outside LB.

So now what do we do?

3. We realize that Woodley was drafted to take over for Haggans and Harrison has stepped up and played at a pro bowl level in the position that Timmons was drafted for. Timmons could not and never was concidered for Woodleys position because it's not the same and Timmons is too small for that position. So, we can't sit Harrison down after a pro bowl season, that guys a beast right. So what to do with Timmons? this guys got too much talent to sit on the bench right? so lets get all of our best players on the field at the same time. Lets move Timmons inside.

Here is where some other people have another problem with Timmons.

4. If we drafted Timmons to play inside linebacker we should have gotten Jon Beason instead who was drafted by the Panthers. Well to answer that, we weren't drafting an inside linebacker therefore we would have never drafted Beason anyway. We were looking for an outside linebacker.

So now we have Timmons looking to play at inside linebacker.

5. Foote isn't that bad of a player. Is Timmons going to be better than Foote, yes. Is he better now, I think so. Is the coaching staff taking it's time with Timmons, it looks that way.

So there you have it. Timmons and Foote will both play this year. Timmons will be used in many ways to take advantage of his skill set. Timmons should end up being the starter at some point during the season. He can also back up Harrison at outside or fill in at any of the inside positions.

If you want to blame someone for the reason why Timmons isn't on the field, blame James Harrison. Which is fine by me cause Harrison is fucking awesome. And right now there is not a rush to name him the "starter". We are going to use Timmons in unique ways to confuse teams. Him starting? that will materialize during the regular season.

I think it's great we have this problem. I don't know why people keep coming down on Timmons. They are just incapable of reason.

[Andymisiu]

Timmons is a great athlete, he has yet to prove that he is a "great" player. Your excitement for his potential is commended but you also need to take a step back and realize that Larry Foote is an established vet and Timmons is not going to take his spot based on his potential. When Timmons makes plays on the field (regular season) and proves to the coaches he can outperform Foote then he deserves to take that spot. Until then, he's a backup.

I said that Timmons is a great player, who is GOOD right now. That means he is not at his full potential yet.

and I agree that he has to prove it in regular season games.

[Hines57]

I said that Timmons is a great player, who is GOOD right now. That means he is not at his full potential yet.

and I agree that he has to prove it in regular season games.
And I said he is a GREAT athlete right now. He has yet to prove he is indeed a great player. He has yet to prove he is even a good player if you want to get specific. I will let his play dictate my opinion of him. We all know he will be a pretty good player. Only his play can tell us how good.

[Vader]

Another problem people have around here with Timmons is where he was drafted. They just simply don't like the pick at all. It's not that they really have something agains Timmons, they just hate the pick. The problem with that thinking is there not taking the circumstances for what they were when he was drafted. Let me fill you in.

1. We were in NEED of a linebacker to take over for Porter when he left. Timmons was the guy. We did not have a player on the team to take that position so we had a NEED to draft one. The staff saw the speed and rushing ability of Timmons and thought he was that guy.

That can't be the case because the Steelers always draft the BAP.

[TWEEK1106]

yup, and they reiterate that basically every year. and why would you say that Timmons was drafted to take over Porter's spot, but then go on to say that "Timmons could not and never was concidered for Woodleys position because it's not the same and Timmons is too small for that position.".....i may be mistaken, but wasn't porter an OLB (for wich you say Timmons was drafted to take over for) and isn't Woodley a OLB (for wich you say Timmons was never considered for and that he's too small for the OLB position)?

[Andymisiu]

yup, and they reiterate that basically every year. and why would you say that Timmons was drafted to take over Porter's spot, but then go on to say that "Timmons could not and never was concidered for Woodleys position because it's not the same and Timmons is too small for that position.".....i may be mistaken, but wasn't porter an OLB (for wich you say Timmons was drafted to take over for) and isn't Woodley a OLB (for wich you say Timmons was never considered for and that he's too small for the OLB position)?

Ahh young sky walker. Woodley plays on the strong side which a larger linebacker is needed for. This is why there was no competition between Woodley and Timmons.

The Steelers can say whatever they want to the media. You obviously want to draft the best player on the board but you also have to go with needs too. They would not draft the best quarterback in the first round if he was the best player on the board, would they? so there is still some needs that go into picking a player. No matter what they say.

[Coryea]

LOLB and ROLB aren't comparable. The LOLB is more of a pass rush guy, while the ROLB is more of the athletic type guy. You'd never mistake Greene or Gildon as a cover guy, their main objective was rush the passer, as will Woodley's.

[markymarc]

Timmons is a great athlete, he has yet to prove that he is a "great" player. Your excitement for his potential is commended but you also need to take a step back and realize that Larry Foote is an established vet and Timmons is not going to take his spot based on his potential. When Timmons makes plays on the field (regular season) and proves to the coaches he can outperform Foote then he deserves to take that spot. Until then, he's a backup.

Here is one of my biggest issues with Foote. So what he has been the starter for the past 3 seasons. Considering that game experience wouldn't you expect him to improve his game or at least be a smarter vet. It's funny because when Timmons screws up people are all over him and yet Foote screws up and usually it's okay just because he knows the defense. So as long as Foote knows the defense it's okay if he can't cover, has trouble shedding blocks and has difficulty making open field tackles. Don't forget Foote has no ceiling. He is what he is. Who knows what kind of ceiling Timmons has, but there is no denying what he flashed in the preseason. Yes he has to show he can do it during the regular season and I am very confident he will do just that starting this Sunday. I have no problem with Foote starting right now because Timmons will still get plenty of action including time in the base defense. There will be a time this season when Timmons is named the starter and he will never look back.

[Coryea]

Bell didn't know the defense at all in 2001, it didn't seem to hurt him or our defense at all.