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Stlrs4Life
01-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Pretty awesome read, somethng we already knew though:


http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/SPORTS13/801120359/1034/SPORTS




HOME > Sports > Kevin Noonan
Pats may be great, but they'll never be the greatest
Posted Saturday, January 12, 2008
OPINION
Kevin Noonan


Some people are calling the New England Patriots the best team in NFL history. And if the Pats run the table in the playoffs -- starting with tonight's game against Jacksonville -- a lot of people will agree with them.

And they'll all be wrong. Only one team can be called the best of all time, and it ain't the Pats. That honor belongs to, and always will belong to, the Pittsburgh Steelers teams of the mid- to late 1970s that won four Super Bowls.

Pick any of their Super Bowl seasons, and those Steelers were better than these Patriots. And it doesn't matter that none of those Pittsburgh teams went undefeated.

It's all a matter of timing, and that's where the Patriots can't match up with the Steelers. You can't compare eras when it comes to talent, but you can compare them in other ways. And in this case, that means the era before free agency and the salary cap, and the era after they were made such an integral part of the game in 1994.

Those two related policy changes had an impact on the NFL like nothing else, with the possible exception of the college draft. They put restrictions on today's teams, restrictions the Steelers of the 1970s didn't have.

That's why it's impossible to put together a team like that now, and why nobody will ever touch them. Not even a team that goes 19-0.

This Patriots team had eight players selected to the Pro Bowl, and that's impressive. Those Steelers teams had nine players elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and that's unparalleled.

Look at the Patriots roster, and how many Hall of Famers do you see? Quarterback Tom Brady, of course, and probably resurrected receiver Randy Moss and linebacker Junior Seau. Perhaps one or two more could make it if the Pats win a couple more Super Bowls.

But nine from one team in the same era? It's never happened before, and it'll never happen again. That Steelers squad should have its own wing at Canton.

Their Hall of Famers on offense include all the skill players -- quarterback Terry Bradshaw, running back Franco Harris and wide receivers Lynn Swann and John Stallworth -- and center Mike Webster. On defense, it was end Joe Green, cornerback Mel Blount and linebackers Jack Ham and Jack Lambert.

So, Pittsburgh has more Hall of Famers from the '70s than the Eagles have had in 75 seasons. Plus, those Steelers teams had other players who made it to at least one Pro Bowl, like defensive end L.C. Greenwood, linebacker Andy Russell and defensive backs Donnie Shell, Glen Edwards and J.T. Thomas.

Then, the salary cap and free agency arrived, and everything changed. One of the great teams of the past 20 years was the Dallas Cowboys squad that won three Super Bowls from 1992 to 1995 with a star-studded lineup that had plenty of All-Pro players. When the salary cap and free agency era began, Dallas discovered it couldn't keep all of its stars.

Many of them left because the Cowboys simply couldn't squeeze all of those players under their cap, and Dallas became the first team that had to make the tough decision of whom to keep and whom to let walk away. They focused on quarterback Troy Aikman, running back Emmitt Smith and receiver Michael Irvin, but free agency and the cap chipped away at them until the Cowboys became just another team.

The Steelers' best players in the 1970s, their Hall of Famers, played their entire career in Pittsburgh, with the exception of Harris, who played his final season with Seattle, and Webster, who finished up with Kansas City.

New England deserves plenty of credit for the mini-dynasty it has created despite the salary cap. The Patriots are a very good team, and if they go 19-0 they'll be a great team. But they'll never be the greatest team

Aries1247
01-12-2008, 01:23 PM
Stopped reading for a sec. just to address this:

But nine from one team in the same era? It's never happened before, and it'll never happen again. That Steelers squad should have its own wing at Canton.

This past year, they did.

Stlrs4Life
01-12-2008, 01:33 PM
Well, maybe they deserve a permanent one.

Steelerman
01-12-2008, 02:35 PM
What's funny is that the Eagles and Redskins are also celebrating their 75th seasons. No one knows either.

Penguins Fan
01-12-2008, 07:43 PM
Well, outside of Philly and Washington, no, they don't. Neither franchise has much of a national following, despite the passionate fan bases both teams have in their cities.

There are more Hall of Famers from the 1970s Steelers than the Eagles have in their history! Amazing.

The Cheatriots have one player who is a HOF candidate, and that's Shady Brady. Maybe Seymour if he continues to have a great career. This is the ultimate mark. The Steelers have an entire team in Canton.

What the Cheatriots do this year is irrelevant to me. Football is over. I'm plugged in to the Penguins. I know what team is the best ever. I grew up watching them. No talking head on ESPN can change that.

Steelr4evr
01-12-2008, 07:45 PM
Piss on the***Pats.

Illinistlrfan
01-12-2008, 08:56 PM
that wing was great, was able to go visit the HOF. The Steeler presence in the HOF is enormous and the 70's Steelers are a big part of that.

FAB802
01-12-2008, 09:41 PM
Stopped reading for a sec. just to address this:



This past year, they did.

I took the family to check it out. It was amazing how many Steelers are in the Hall. I had to take the kids and teach them about a real football franchise.

Guntown Bob
01-13-2008, 12:47 AM
As fun and as interesting as these comparisons are, they're really meaningless since the rules of the game have changed.

Imagine watching Mel Blount follow Randy Moss on a one-to-one coverage. Under the old rules, Blount would have Moss's head on a platter.

Coryea
01-13-2008, 01:01 AM
I took the family to check it out. It was amazing how many Steelers are in the Hall. I had to take the kids and teach them about a real football franchise.

Went there also with the family. The problem now is there is a biased against Steeler players, the fact Dawson can't get past the final 16 is ridiculous.

CAH
01-13-2008, 01:44 AM
Went there also with the family. The problem now is there is a biased against Steeler players, the fact Dawson can't get past the final 16 is ridiculous.

The NFL is giving way to political correctness so that all teams are treated fairly but not fair to all great players . :rolleyes:

Watch how evenly they'll induct players.

khruuton
01-18-2008, 11:42 AM
Don't forget our owner, the owner's son and our coach also being in the hall of fame because of that 70's team.

It's not always about the players. It's the organization and it's credibility.

The Steelers retains theirs. The New England Assterik's aren't worthy. Period.

Max Power
01-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I never tire of reading articles like this one, that are not borne of our local Pittsburgh Media. Sure we all know locally how it is. But when it comes un-solicited like this, it sure is nice.

The story is meant to knock those pats down a peg or so from blowing thier own horn. I say go ahead and let them blow hard. No one else will hear it, that really matters.

Everyone that's anyone knows that the rules of the game changed, some due to our dominance but mostly due to Salary Cap issue. The Steelers though never really changed. Today as well as then the team builds through the Draft. They exist with thier own developed talent. They did it then and still do it now. Some folks just don't understand that. (as well as some of you) Sure we pick up an ocasional free agent. 80 percent of this team though is still drafted talent and un-drafted guys we deem as talented enough to make our roster.

The Rooneys deserve much more than recognition in the HOF. They are responsible for the existance of one of the Greatest Sports Frachises in the History of the World. The Steelers of the 70's are unparalleled now as well as then. No one could ever duplicate what they did. No one. Not even us. Greatness is what the Steelers are built of. It is something you can not take away.

Every single season begins in Latrobe with High Hopes and lofty goals. They are there etched in the very fabric of life. Instilled upon us by Art Rooney Sr some many years ago. The Pittsburgh Steelers are in a Class of thier very own, and always will be.

BAS
01-18-2008, 12:45 PM
Went there also with the family. The problem now is there is a biased against Steeler players, the fact Dawson can't get past the final 16 is ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous?

How many O-lineman have been inducted since 2000? Want to know? Here:

2000 - 0
2001 - 3 - Ron Yary (Tackle, played 1968-1982), Mike Munchak (Guard, 1982-1993), Jackie Slater (Tackle, 1976-1995)
2002 - 0 - none
2003 - 1 - Joe Delamielleure (Guard, 1973-1984)
2004 - 1 - Bob (Boomer) Brown (Tackle, 1964-1973)
2005 - 0
2006 - 1 - Rayfield Wright (Tackle, 1967-1979)
2007 - 2 - Gene Hickerson (1958-1973), Bruce Matthews (All, 1983-2001)

That's 8 total in 8 induction classes. Only Jackie Slater and Bruce Matthews got immediately upon eligibility - and Slater played for 20 seasons to Matthews' 19. The latest any of the others played was 1993.

The voting comittee is notorious for NOT voting in O-lineman. Dawson's qualifications roughly equate to those of Munchak:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?PLAYER_ID=157

There's a slew of lineman that should probably be in the Hall of Fame, Dawson's just going to have to wait his turn.

What really needs to happen is the committee needs to amend their election process that limits the amount of players inducted per year. Maybe they should be forced to elect 2 lineman per year.

FistfullofRings
01-18-2008, 01:24 PM
As fun and as interesting as these comparisons are, they're really meaningless since the rules of the game have changed.

Imagine watching Mel Blount follow Randy Moss on a one-to-one coverage. Under the old rules, Blount would have Moss's head on a platter.

Not to mention what was consider holding was more strict and what was considered roughing the passer was a lot more lenient.

I forget which wroter did it but he compared passer ratings from 30 years ago to passer rating now. 30 years ago, a rating of 80 was pretty damn good, now its mediocre.