We are not the Steelers any more...

[Turbo Pig]

Cowher and Noll have to be cringing watching the overall lack of toughness on the team... The Jaguars are now the Pittsburgh Steelers and I am really getting worried about the overall direction of our team... I am worried in the next few years I won't even recognize us... A pass happy, speed rushing, 4-3 team... Please tell me thats not where we are headed...

[Iron Maiden]

When you learn how to spell the coaches names properly, maybe folks will take the time to argue with you. But I doubt it.

[Turbo Pig]

I was typing fast, i've been a steeler fan for as long or longer than you I"m sure... 1979 here... Man, some internet police are annoying... now buzz off and let the grown men talk here

[cgilbert]

The Steelers are in an identity crisis
~ Chris Berman

[Iron Maiden]

I was typing fast, i've been a steeler fan for as long or longer than you I"m sure... 1979 here... Man, some internet police are annoying... now buzz off and let the grown men talk here

Trust me, I'm older than you and frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you've been a fan since 1933. You've posted weird shit here before just to stir the pot.

[Texasfan]

I sure miss the days when teams knew we were going to run the ball and they couldn't do anything about it.

[Turbo Pig]

Trust me, I'm older than you and frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you've been a fan since 1933. You've posted weird shit here before just to stir the pot.

Not true, and I see you have no reply for my post... How can you argue against it, its all true... The Jaguars came in and played Steeler ball and whooped our butts doing it... We knew they were going to run it and they lined up and smashed us in the mouth and there was nothing we could do to stop it... That is supposed to be us doing that

[ironcitysteelers]

Cowher and Noll have to be cringing watching the overall lack of toughness on the team... The Jaguars are now the Pittsburgh Steelers and I am really getting worried about the overall direction of our team... I am worried in the next few years I won't even recognize us... A pass happy, speed rushing, 4-3 team... Please tell me thats now where we are headed...

I wouldnt be supprised if we were a cover-2 in a couple years and too me thats not a bad thing as long as we have the persons to play it....Isnt that the D-fense we had back in the day? I thought we were the ones that made that D famous...not tampa.

You know Dick isnt going to be around because of age not because lack of production and I dont want someone else trying to run his Blizing 3-4 D.

[BillvinCowbert]

Not true, and I see you have no reply for my post... How can you argue against it, its all true... The Jaguars came in and played Steeler ball and whooped our butts doing it... We knew they were going to run it and they lined up and smashed us in the mouth and there was nothing we could do to stop it... That is supposed to be us doing that

Luckily, after 2004, Cowher realized that Steeler Football in playoffs was a sure way to lose AFCCs, so we decided to open it up and ended up winning the Super Bowl. The only other year in Cowher's tenure that we made it to the Super Bowl, not coincidentally, moving away from "Steeler Football" was a catalyst.

Not sure if you knew this, but they don't wear leather helmets anymore.

[Diamond Dave]

What's more important - winning games or playing "Steeler football"?

The Patriots have something like a 70-30% ratio in favor of passing. I bet they're sitting back right now wishing they could run the ball more.

Oh, and I've been a fan since 1969. I win.

[Turbo Pig]

Luckily, after 2004, Cowher realized that Steeler Football in playoffs was a sure way to lose AFCCs, so we decided to open it up and ended up winning the Super Bowl. The only other year in Cowher's tenure that we made it to the Super Bowl, not coincidentally, moving away from "Steeler Football" was a catalyst.

Not sure if you knew this, but they don't wear leather helmets anymore.

We learned to pass to open up the run... Arians is not doing that... Its all long developing pass plays and misuse of Willie... Did you see the Jags... That is the way to win games... And they have far less talent on Offense than we do... With the shape of our OL, quick passes to open up the box seems like a good overall strategy... I just am not impressed with Arians first year as an OC...

[STLRFAN78]

who gives a fuck, as long as we win. i could care less if we pass or run, or what D we play. just friggin execute what you are supposed to do and WIN.

that is all.

btw Ariens does suck .

[CoolieMan]

I was a fan before Art even bought the team

[BillvinCowbert]

What's more important - winning games or playing "Steeler football"?
That would make for an interesting poll (though many wouldn't be honest)...

[Turbo Pig]

What's more important - winning games or playing "Steeler football"?

The Patriots have something like a 70-30% ratio in favor of passing. I bet they're sitting back right now wishing they could run the ball more.

Oh, and I've been a fan since 1969. I win.

We don't have Tom Brady or Randy Moss... And last I checked, we're not really playing winning football right now... so that kind of negates your argument...

[ironcitysteelers]

We don't have Tom Brady or Randy Moss... And last I checked, we're not really playing winning football right now... so that kind of negates your argument...

.....sounds like Turbo Pig is Slopping on Toms piece

[oneforthebus]

Not based on any litany of stats but just my own observations, Arians seems to have an uncanny ability to take whatever is actually working and do the exact opposite. I also just don't get why it's either run or pass the ball downfield. Why don't we have a short passing game? Ben's looking downfield and waiting for someone to get open on every single pass...no wonder he's getting sacked so much. Where are the checkdowns?

And this is not to say that I think our O-iline is blameless either...

[Turbo Pig]

I think what Wiz put together was the a hybrid gameplan that was the best for the steelers, it was innovative, yet still maintained the toughness and keyed everything about being able to run the ball in the second half and other teams not being able to stop it... I am one that believes winning football and Steeler football are the same thing... Yes its not just line up and run run run run... We can't do that, I'm not suggesting we do that... But the gameplans we have seem so poorly planned... I"m not sure the players believe in the game plan... The Broncos are the worst run defense team we will face and we didn't appear to design a game plan to take advantage of that... Its like we got trick and said "they think we are going to try and run all over them, so we won't do that"...

Its just an opinion, people can discuss without being jerks... I think

[CoolieMan]

We don't have Tom Brady or Randy Moss... And last I checked, we're not really playing winning football right now... so that kind of negates your argument...


9-5...in first place....sounds like winning football to me

[Steelerman]

I'm pissed because we just got slaughtered by two teams that we could see in the playoffs. Not exactly a good way to enter the postseason....knowing that two of your possible opponents can easily destroy your ass by either throwing and/or running.

[Turbo Pig]

9-5...in first place....sounds like winning football to me

Umm with our schedule, I would HOPE we'd be at least 9-5...

We haven't played many good teams this year, and lost to plenty bad teams... Our quality wins are Cleveland (second game, first game they were a mess at QB), Seattle, and thats it... The Bills are NOT a good team btw...

We have losses against Cardinals, Broncos, Jets... Those are all BAD losses...

Beating SF, Cleveland (opening game), Dolphins, Bengals, Ravens, are nothing to write home about...


If you think this season is a success so far, we just have different expectations.... I think the worst we should be with this schedule is 11-3

[Diamond Dave]

We don't have Tom Brady or Randy Moss... And last I checked, we're not really playing winning football right now... so that kind of negates your argument...

It doesn't negate my argument at all. Your statement was "A pass happy, speed rushing, 4-3 team... Please tell me thats not where we are headed..."

Granted, they are not speed rushers, but the Patriots are a pass happy, 4-3 team that is going to go undefeated, win their fourth Super Bowl and be regarded forever more as the greatest football team ever to take the field. YOU don't want that. YOU want "Steeler football": 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

So, I'll ask again. Would you rather win Super Bowls or play Steeler football? It's attitudes like yours that give Steelers fans a reputation of being arrogant and stuck in the past. Hey - we don't need to change. Everyone else should change to suit us. New ideas to win games? Nope, I want run, run, run! After all it's gotten us ONE championship in 26 years, so that's enough by crackey!

Do you realize that with the blown chances in Super Bowls and AFCC games we could conceivably be on our 10th championship by now?

But yeah...let's just play Steeler football. That's what works.

[Turbo Pig]

It doesn't negate my argument at all. Your statement was "A pass happy, speed rushing, 4-3 team... Please tell me thats not where we are headed..."

Granted, they are not speed rushers, but the Patriots are a pass happy, 4-3 team that going to go undefeated and win their forth Super Bowl. YOU don't want that. YOU want "Steeler football": 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

So, I'll ask again. Would you rather win Super Bowls or play Steeler football? It's attitudes like yours that give Steelers fans a reputation of being arrogant and stuck in the past. Hey - we don't need to change. Everyone else should change to suit us. New ideas to win games? Nope, I want run, run, run! After all it's gotten us ONE championship in 26 years, so that's enough by crackey!

Do you realize that with the blown chances in Super Bowls and AFCC games we could conceivably be on our 10th championship by now?

But yeah...let's just play Steeler football. That's what works.

You obviously haven't read all the posts in this thread from me.. I never never never said three yards and cloud of dust... What Wiz put in place is what we should be doing...

[Steelerman]

If we had an offensive line then none of this would be an argument. It pretty much defines your team and its identity.

[BillvinCowbert]

"A pass happy, speed rushing, 4-3 team...

....won the Super Bowl last year.

[Diamond Dave]

You obviously haven't read all the posts in this thread from me.. I never never never said three yards and cloud of dust... What Wiz put in place is what we should be doing...

Let me ask you something. You said that we're not the Steelers anymore and we need to return to Steeler football.

What makes that Steelers, the Steelers? What exactly is Steeler football?

[tooz]

The ESPN boys are right....we don't have an identity right now. As I said on another thread, Tomlin will prove his worth in the offseason. As a young first time coach, he did the right thing by keeping several of the existing staff and promoting a few. That being said, Arians needs to go and should. His play calling, misuse of FWP and use of slow developing pass plays ( the exact opposite of what you would incorporate with a suspect OL) is reason enough for his dismissal. The issues with the D are debatable. While we have lacked pressure for most of the season, we have been successful, until late. I don't know what the answer is there, but it seems that there is an attempt at some sort of transition in philosophy. Time will tell. But, Tomlin will have to make some tough decisions in the offseason.

[TMC]

I think the Steelers are evolving into the football team they plan to become. I am not so sure we see the 4-3 as long as LeBeau stays, but our offense is changing. And, you can damn sure bet that if we were throwing it 17 times a game this season, Ben would not be so anxious to ink his name on a contract in the offseason.

This offense is being built around Roethlisberger. You can bet that they will draft some components that help the offense this offseason. I can see them grabbing 2 offensive linemen and a WR in this draft. They will return every starter on offense (minus Haggans). We should see some upgrades with Woodley and Timmons now knowing the defense. Gay should benefit, hopefully we get Smith and Clark back. Obviously Clark was more important than we realized.....and could have helped tremendously against the Pats. That is where experience is better than raw talent....you do not bite on fakes as much.

The Cowher way is dead. Live with it. Also, the Cowher way went 8-8 last season with a center everyone feels is better than our current one and the only change has been some draft picks.

I'll take 9-5 over 8-8.

[CoolieMan]

Umm with our schedule, I would HOPE we'd be at least 9-5...

We haven't played many good teams this year, and lost to plenty bad teams... Our quality wins are Cleveland (second game, first game they were a mess at QB), Seattle, and thats it... The Bills are NOT a good team btw...

We have losses against Cardinals, Broncos, Jets... Those are all BAD losses...

Beating SF, Cleveland (opening game), Dolphins, Bengals, Ravens, are nothing to write home about...


If you think this season is a success so far, we just have different expectations.... I think the worst we should be with this schedule is 11-3

oh, I am not happy with the losses...but you stated the Steelers were not playing winning football...and since they are 9-5 they are winning....

[CoolieMan]

The Cowher way is dead. Live with it. Also, the Cowher way went 8-8 last season with a center everyone feels is better than our current one and the only change has been some draft picks.
I'll take 9-5 over 8-8.

and a healthy Roethlisberger

[TMC]

One more point, we lost to the Jags by 7. They had to score in the 4th quarter to win. They blew a 15-point lead. I do not think that they are a superior team to us. We could not stop them (without Aaron Smith and Ryan Clark). They could not stop our offense.

Against the Pats, it was 17-13 at the half and they had burned Smith on play action. We had Smith and Tyrone Carter starting at safety and they went after them. Then, the next TD was a trick play that fooled our safeties. We failed to score inside the 1. By that time, we had lost momentum and they started to roll. But, the Steelers played with them even though they were missing both starters at safety.

We are being hampered by key injuries at poor times this season and have STILL went 9-5. I think Tomlin is doing an excellent job.

[bigtwnvin]

I'm pissed because we just got slaughtered by two teams that we could see in the playoffs. Not exactly a good way to enter the postseason....knowing that two of your possible opponents can easily destroy your ass by either throwing and/or running.

Slaughtered?
Patriots. Steelers played the first half with the Pats, moved the ball. After halftime the Patties made the necessary adjustments on both sides of the ball to keep it and score. After a receiver comes out of the slot for short passes once or twice, the coaches should adjust. LeBeau didn't and Arians couldn't coach the local HS. I blame the coaches for the loss to the Pats.
Jags. Beat the Steelers at their own game. Possession. Parker gets 100 plus yards on 14 carries and Fred Taylor runs for over 145! Duhhhh. that game was lost by the coaches too. WTF made the decision to start Ben after he missed three days practice! Charlie Batch practiced 2 days with the first squad for crissakes. Last year Ben lost to the Jags 9-0!! Hello anybody paying attention in the coaches corner?
Now we have to go to St. Louis on a FA-King short week. C'mon folks some things are just plain obvious.

[Ark Steel]

Then, the next TD was a trick play that fooled our safeties.

After seeing that replay waaay to many times, I wonder if Moss dropping that ball actually helped make that TD. If he catches it cleanly and telegraphs that he is throwing it back, do the safeties come up?

As it is, he drops the ball, it is a broken play and everyone comes up to stop him.

[Lorak]

When I think of "Steelers" football. I think of attitude.
This team just doesn't have it.

To me "Steeler" football isn't a scheme. 4-3, 3-4. Doesn't matter. Run 60% of the time or 30% of the time. Doesn't matter.

As long as the players you have in those positions line up to impose thier will and punch people in the mouth. It is all attitude! Sadly this team just goes through the motions of playing.

People talk about how the team was 8-8 last year under the Chin. Here are last years results.
5 Sun. Oct. 8 @San Diego Chargers 8:15 PM L 23–13
6 Sun. Oct. 15 Kansas City Chiefs 1:00 PM W 45–7
7 Sun. Oct. 22 @Atlanta Falcons (OT) 1:00 PM L 41–38
8 Sun. Oct. 29 @Oakland Raiders 4:05 PM L 20–13
9 Sun. Nov. 5 Denver Broncos 1:00 PM L 31–20
10 Sun. Nov. 12 New Orleans Saints 4:15 PM W 38–31
11 Sun. Nov. 19 @Cleveland Browns 1:00 PM* W 24–20
12 Sun. Nov. 26 @Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 27–0
13 Sun. Dec. 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 PM* W 20–3
14 Thu. Dec. 7 Cleveland Browns 8:30 PM W 27–7
15 Sun. Dec. 17 @Carolina Panthers 1:00 PM* W 37–3
16 Sun. Dec. 24 Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 31–7
17 Sun. Dec. 31 @Cincinnati Bengals (OT) 1:00 PM* W 23–17

Notice the Loses were at the beginning of the season when Ben was hurt. But notice how at the end of year Bill had these players playing. They just couldn't overcome the hole they dug.

Now look at this year. The team is inconsistant. There is no fire. They just play with no emotion and wishy washy. Have no attitude, no identity. nothing. That is coaching.

I want to give Tomlin a pass his first year. But damn it. He needs to start coaching. Does he actualy do anything during games? Even in the patriots game the Dark Lord was over and coaching his defense during the game.

Has tomlin ever even spoken to a player on the sideline? or does he just stand there the whole time with his mic up by his forehead?

[Coryea]

There is no such thing as Steelers Football, it's called winning football, IMO. The majority of teams with a good Oline will run the ball in the second half when they are leading to kill the clock and minimize the risk of mistakes.
#5 ring wasn't because of Whiz, it was because we had a QB that could make plays in big games.
2001 we threw the ball all over the place, something like 25 passes to 7 or 8 runs in the first half, that didn't work.
1997 we were having success running the ball, went play-action fake on 2nd down and Kordell threw into double coverage in the endzone for an INT.
Super Bowl XXX we know what happened there from poor QB play.

[Diamond Dave]

There is no such thing as Steelers Football, it's called winning football, IMO.

So when the 49ers dynasty was in progress, were they playing Steeler football? How about the Cowboys of the 90's? Do the Patriots play Steeler football?

[omawho]

I'm pissed because we just got slaughtered by two teams that we could see in the playoffs. Not exactly a good way to enter the postseason....knowing that two of your possible opponents can easily destroy your ass by either throwing and/or running.

I am not pissed off because we lost to these two playoff teams. I am upset that we didn't beat three teams we should have beaten and didn't. We really should not be in a dog fight right now to win the Division. But it is what it is and we have to toughen up and win these last two games. I think we do......

[Max Power]

I fully expect the Steelers to Bust out of the funk we're in. And yes this team is evolving slowly into what we will be seeing in the future. It will be good, I tell you and it can suck getting there. You saw bits a pieces of it as we won some games huge early on this season. I expect more of that. The time for change has come and it is upon us. Watch it and enjoy it.

[Spike]

Lookit all the Tomlin-haters come running.....

The Whiz's team just got eliminated from the playoffs. He sucks, get over it.

[CoolieMan]

The Super Bowl XXX team was not exactly a smash mouth offense....and Coryea...the WR ran the wrong route in that game.....twice.....

[Coryea]

So when the 49ers dynasty was in progress, were they playing Steeler football? How about the Cowboys of the 90's? Do the Patriots play Steeler football?

They were playing winning football, they did what best fit their team and gave them the best chance to win.

[60 MINUTES]

The Super Bowl XXX team was not exactly a smash mouth offense....and Coryea...the WR ran the wrong route in that game.....twice.....



The Bookies that cashed in that game have stuck by this same quote as you.

[Lorak]

I'm not a Tomlin hater. But I am having my doubts about his coaching, or lack there of.

Team is just playing flat, and having a lot of mental errors. That should be a coach corrected issue.

Not sure if he is just trying to coast his first year and not upset anyone or what. But he needs to sep up and take charge of some things before it is too late.

As a 4-3 tampa-2 defensive coach. When Airens came and said ( I'm getting rid of every 3 step drop, quick slant and drop-offs over the middle) Tomlin should have stood up (as a 4-3) guy and said, you don't get rid of the best way of attacking what 70% of the defenses in the NFL run.

As a Defensive backs coach, he should have said something when Dick came up with the plan to beat the Pats*. Spread offense has killed us in Dicks 3-4 for years. You can't play 10 yards off the recievers when your facing a team with a good QB.

The Third is when he said they don't change the way they play based on the opponent. "we do what we do". What in the hell Head coach in the NFL doesn't game plan based on the strengths and weaknesses of the oppanent that weak?

Now I think Coach C went to far with the yelling and spitting on the sidelines sometimes. But I asked abut Tomlin because I am not at the games.

Does he coach at all? Or just stand by himself like he is watching the game in a Bar somewhere?

I have never seen him address a player when he messes up. Never seen him address a player when he does good. Never seen him address the Offense or Defense.

Hell, If he didn't walk out to talk to ben during a time out, I'd be hard pressed to know he was even a coach at all.

[Milkman Dan]

A couple of points.

The Cowher era is over. Sad to say it is, but what is being called Steeler Football, is Cowher football. Power running with a big back that sets up the pass. Blitzing D that is barely on the field thanks to the offense. There's nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't work if you don't have the personnel. Bettis, Duce, Fu, & Bam; those were the type of backs that Cowher used and swore by in his system. Willie came in via the Rooneys and only saw the field because Bettis and Duce were both hurt. Willie is not a power/Cowher back. Ben is not a Cowher offense QB. Well, actually about any QB works in a Cowher offense, but I digress. TMC said it best when he said this offense is being built around Ben. I would also add that it is somewhat being built around Willie too, as I think they ultimately put him in more of an LT role before its said and done. That all said, I think the Rooneys have the say in this and what they say is this is Tomlin's team for him to build and field as he sees fit, not to just copy what Cowher did.


The other point, also going back to TMC's post regarding the Pats game. Three plays. The play action, the flea flicker, and the goalline. Two times our D didn't execute, and one time our playcalling sucked made the difference in that game.

Imagine if Anthony didn't bite on that play action and giving the Pats some credit and say they ended up with three instead of seven. Halftime score 13-13.

Now, imagine if any one of the seemingly 10 defenders that were going after the broken play either landed on the ball or got a hand on Moss or Anthony Smith had just an extra half a step to deflect the pass. Then, give the Pats another bit of credit and say they might have gotten another FG instead. Score then, 13-16.

Then, at the goal line, instead of that reverse crap to Hines, just run with Najeh or hell, a FG. Score - 20-16 or 16-16.

From there, who knows?

[ugemire]

if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

[Steelerman]

Slaughtered?
Patriots. Steelers played the first half with the Pats, moved the ball. After halftime the Patties made the necessary adjustments on both sides of the ball to keep it and score. After a receiver comes out of the slot for short passes once or twice, the coaches should adjust. LeBeau didn't and Arians couldn't coach the local HS. I blame the coaches for the loss to the Pats.
Jags. Beat the Steelers at their own game. Possession. Parker gets 100 plus yards on 14 carries and the Jags run for over 145. Duhhhh. that game was lost by the coaches too. WTF made the decision to start Ben after he missed three days practice! Charlie Batch practiced 2 days with the first squad for crissakes. Last year Ben lost to the Jags 9-0!! Hello anybody paying attention in the coaches corner?
Now we have to go to St. Louis on a FA-King short week. C'mon folks some things are just plain obvious.

The Pats put up over 400 yards of offense on us. The Jags put up over 400 yards of offense on us. 224 of it was on the ground. So from a defensive standpoint, yes, the Steelers got slaughtered.

[Turbo Pig]

When I think of "Steelers" football. I think of attitude.
This team just doesn't have it.

To me "Steeler" football isn't a scheme. 4-3, 3-4. Doesn't matter. Run 60% of the time or 30% of the time. Doesn't matter.

As long as the players you have in those positions line up to impose thier will and punch people in the mouth. It is all attitude! Sadly this team just goes through the motions of playing.

People talk about how the team was 8-8 last year under the Chin. Here are last years results.
5 Sun. Oct. 8 @San Diego Chargers 8:15 PM L 23–13
6 Sun. Oct. 15 Kansas City Chiefs 1:00 PM W 45–7
7 Sun. Oct. 22 @Atlanta Falcons (OT) 1:00 PM L 41–38
8 Sun. Oct. 29 @Oakland Raiders 4:05 PM L 20–13
9 Sun. Nov. 5 Denver Broncos 1:00 PM L 31–20
10 Sun. Nov. 12 New Orleans Saints 4:15 PM W 38–31
11 Sun. Nov. 19 @Cleveland Browns 1:00 PM* W 24–20
12 Sun. Nov. 26 @Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 27–0
13 Sun. Dec. 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 PM* W 20–3
14 Thu. Dec. 7 Cleveland Browns 8:30 PM W 27–7
15 Sun. Dec. 17 @Carolina Panthers 1:00 PM* W 37–3
16 Sun. Dec. 24 Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 31–7
17 Sun. Dec. 31 @Cincinnati Bengals (OT) 1:00 PM* W 23–17

Notice the Loses were at the beginning of the season when Ben was hurt. But notice how at the end of year Bill had these players playing. They just couldn't overcome the hole they dug.

Now look at this year. The team is inconsistant. There is no fire. They just play with no emotion and wishy washy. Have no attitude, no identity. nothing. That is coaching.

I want to give Tomlin a pass his first year. But damn it. He needs to start coaching. Does he actualy do anything during games? Even in the patriots game the Dark Lord was over and coaching his defense during the game.

Has tomlin ever even spoken to a player on the sideline? or does he just stand there the whole time with his mic up by his forehead?


thank you.....

[Turbo Pig]

Lookit all the Tomlin-haters come running.....

The Whiz's team just got eliminated from the playoffs. He sucks, get over it.

Dumb post of the year.... congrats

[Sarge]

Yes they are. And that little emblem thingy on their helmet proves it.

[CoolieMan]

Dumb post of the year.... congrats

spike's post isn't even close...you are working your way up the list though...

[Spike]

Dumb post of the year.... congrats

Take your PatriotsPenisEnvy pillow home and squeeze it real tight....maybe Whiz will come wipe away your tears.

[Super Heathen]

It's really very simple. NE* and Jax have O-lines that can move you out of the way, create holes and keep their qb's upright. NE* and Jax also have front 7's that can get in your face EVERY game, not just 1 out of every 3-4 games. We don't have that here.

If we had the talent in the trenches but still lost ugly to the better teams, then you can start questioning the HC. Until then, STFU>

[Lorak]

If we had the talent in the trenches but still lost ugly to the better teams, then you can start questioning the HC. Until then, STFU>


No, When you have an OC that says he got rid of all the 3 step drops, because they take take the same amout of time as a 5 step drop.. Then you have some serious coaching issues.

[BLEEDS]

I'm pissed because we just got slaughtered by two teams that we could see in the playoffs. Not exactly a good way to enter the postseason....knowing that two of your possible opponents can easily destroy your ass by either throwing and/or running.


There it is...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Super Heathen]

No, When you have an OC that says he got rid of all the 3 step drops, because they take take the same amout of time as a 5 step drop.. Then you have some serious coaching issues.

No arguement on BA, he blows. However, imo we need to fix what's wrong in the trenches 1st. We can replace Bruce easier than we can replace Faneca or A. Smith.

[Turbo Pig]

spike's post isn't even close...you are working your way up the list though...

Based on your winning football comments I doubt I'll ever catch you...

[Jer]

Steeler football is all about being physical. 3-4, 4-3, 5 reciever sets, I - formations....none of that matters. The Steelers may lose a damn game in terms of points, but the opposing team feels like they just wen't through a 15 round bout with the heavy weight champ of the world.

This team, right now, looks tired and injured. There is no fire. There is no leadership. There is no Jerome Bettis or Joey Porter to pick these players up and hold them accountable.

[Lorak]

Steeler football is all about being physical. 3-4, 4-3, 5 reciever sets, I - formations....none of that matters. The Steelers may lose a damn game in terms of points, but the opposing team feels like they just wen't through a 15 round bout with the heavy weight champ of the world.

This team, right now, looks tired and injured. There is no fire. There is no leadership. There is no Jerome Bettis or Joey Porter to pick these players up and hold them accountable.

Quoted for Truth.
"Attitude" Isn't standing over a player. Gloating and trash talking after a play. Thats just being a dumb ass. "Attitude" for a Steeler, is telling somone your going to line up and punch him in the mouth, and there isn't shit he can do about it.

Our team has no attitude. How many times in the last two games, have you seen our players (getting thier asses kicked and embarrased). Joking with the pats and Jacksonville players, patting thier helmets, laughing, and basically just looking like they don't give a shit?

[Hines57]

Our OL is in shambles. Mahan is atrocious. Smith is clearly hurt and shouldnt be on the field. We have a sieve at RG and Colon gets beat frequently. Faneca is the only guy out there worth a damn.

And our receivers beyond Ward and Holmes are garbage. This whole Nate has potential argument is gibberish. Potential is for high school and college players. This is professional football.

[Turbo Pig]

Steeler football is all about being physical. 3-4, 4-3, 5 reciever sets, I - formations....none of that matters. The Steelers may lose a damn game in terms of points, but the opposing team feels like they just wen't through a 15 round bout with the heavy weight champ of the world.

This team, right now, looks tired and injured. There is no fire. There is no leadership. There is no Jerome Bettis or Joey Porter to pick these players up and hold them accountable.

Thank god some people get it.......

I liked the Tomlin hire, but I expected more fire from him and the team.... I don't dislike the hire at all, even now, but I do think the staff needs some changes starting with OC and ST coach

[Malice]

It's really very simple. NE* and Jax have O-lines that can move you out of the way, create holes and keep their qb's upright. NE* and Jax also have front 7's that can get in your face EVERY game, not just 1 out of every 3-4 games. We don't have that here.

Not disagreeing with you, just adding to what you said Heathen.

I think Jax's o-line plays their game well, the power run.

I think the Cheatriots plays their game well, pass protection.

I think the Steelers O-line does not know what page it it on half of the time. So they run block well on some days and pass block well on some days, but do not seem to be able to one or the other or both consistently.

[bigtwnvin]

The Pats put up over 400 yards of offense on us. The Jags put up over 400 yards of offense on us. 224 of it was on the ground. So from a defensive standpoint, yes, the Steelers got slaughtered.

Correct. Now do the breakdown of yards gained in the 2nd half of the game as opposed to the 1st half. We're losing the game in the 3rd & 4th quarters. No "halftime adjustments". That's a coaching problem. There are player issues but coaches are supposed to put the player in the best position to make a play right?

[topseed]

One more point, we lost to the Jags by 7. They had to score in the 4th quarter to win. They blew a 15-point lead. I do not think that they are a superior team to us. We could not stop them (without Aaron Smith and Ryan Clark). They could not stop our offense.

Jacksonville couldn't stop the Steelers' offense? You cannot possibly be serious with that statement.

Your idea of unstoppable is piling up 217 yards of offense, going 5-for-13 on third downs, putting together one scoring drive longer than 31 yards, and averaging 2.8 yards per passing play?

Wow.

[Steelerman]

The only reason we were even in the Jags game near the end is because they got cocky and passed when they didn't need to. They were absolutely dominating the LOS and were marching down the field yet again until Garrard's catchable pass was tipped into Anthony Smith's hands. It was a gift. We could not stop them that drive until that happened. Just like the first drive of the 3rd quarter and their winning drive when they methodically marched down the field and manhandled our defense into a new realm of "owned".

[Jer]

You look at our division, with exception to the Bungles, the defenses are built for violence. Even the Jags and Titans, who used to be in our divison are still built at stopping the run and pressuring the QB. Cleveland is coming into their own and now that their offense is clicking, I look fro them to start investing in a stout Defense to start seriously competing.

[Spike]

Jercat has point about the Browns. They "fixed" their team by adding a QB, LT and G (Steinbach's $49.5M looks to be worth it now).

They still have a whole defense to replace though....that won't be easy, they all suck.

[FAB802]

Those who are having a hard time watching this team because of some mythical "Steeler Football" bullshit are free root for someone else. The Steelers organization doesn't have a patent on running the ball and hitting people.

[LetMePlay]

If you dont know who you are then you could be somebody else.

[Steelerman]

Those who are having a hard time watching this team because of some mythical "Steeler Football" bullshit are free root for someone else. The Steelers organization doesn't have a patent on running the ball and hitting people.



Ah ha!!! There it is folks! The infamous "root for someone else"! Right on schedule.

[Lorak]

Those who are having a hard time watching this team because of some mythical "Steeler Football" bullshit are free root for someone else. The Steelers organization doesn't have a patent on running the ball and hitting people.

I'm not having a hard time watching this team because of some mythical Bullshit.

I'm having a hard time watching this team, laugh, joke, and kid around with the opponents on the field while taking up the arse.

I have been on some bad teams. But I have never been on a team that is playing around and joking with the other team on the field that is kicking our arse.

[Turbo Pig]

I was wondering when the people who don't have the ability to discuss our issues to pull the root for someone else... LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

We have problems, if you can't see them or discuss them, then your tinted glasses are fogged

[Doc]

Call me crazy, but isn't not playing "steeler football" anymore at least in part due to having a stud at QB? Ben hasn't been all that shy about his distaste for "steeler football" under Cowher.
Now dont get me wrong I am completely onboard with the get Arians out of town crowd, but with Ben's contract coming up, I don't see him liking the idea for 15-20 throws a game again no matter who the OC is. Just a thought.

[Spike]

"Steelers football" seemed to be working OK when we were 7-2.

Of course, the board was all but dead then.....the piss&moaners were just biding their time, I guess.

[Irv24]

Call me crazy, but isn't not playing "steeler football" anymore at least in part due to having a stud at QB? Ben hasn't been all that shy about his distaste for "steeler football" under Cowher.
Now dont get me wrong I am completely onboard with the get Arians out of town crowd, but with Ben's contract coming up, I don't see him liking the idea for 15-20 throws a game again no matter who the OC is. Just a thought.

I don't have a problem with throwing the ball more, but it appears that Arians NEVER plans to attack the other teams weaknesses.
I still say is system would work if the Steelers had a real offensive line.

[Turbo Pig]

"Steelers football" seemed to be working OK when we were 7-2.

Of course, the board was all but dead then.....the piss&moaners were just biding their time, I guess.

With losses to the Broncos and Cardinals it was no where near OK

[Spike]

"Why aren't the Steelers perfect like the pats?"
> PatsPenisEnvy whiners

[tooz]

Call me crazy, but isn't not playing "steeler football" anymore at least in part due to having a stud at QB? Ben hasn't been all that shy about his distaste for "steeler football" under Cowher.
Now dont get me wrong I am completely onboard with the get Arians out of town crowd, but with Ben's contract coming up, I don't see him liking the idea for 15-20 throws a game again no matter who the OC is. Just a thought.

Ben may not be the biggest fan of "Steeler Football", but I bet he'd take that over running for his life 30 times a game and absorbing 50 sacks every season.

[LetMePlay]

"Steelers football" seemed to be working OK when we were 7-2.

Of course, the board was all but dead then.....the piss&moaners were just biding their time, I guess.

Except me. I was complaining about all the passing. I like 60% run, more if possible.

I was happy that we were winning but the passing game was irritating me.

[bigtwnvin]

I don't have a problem with throwing the ball more, but it appears that Arians NEVER plans to attack the other teams weaknesses.
I still say is system would work if the Steelers had a real offensive line.

And a real OC.

[omawho]

There was a time when Steeler Football was a direct reflection of the city of Pittsburgh. Hard-nosed, Blue coller, tough assed working people. mill workers that drank thier shot & a beer after a shift at the iron works. Mean son-a-bitches that would fight at the drop of a hat. Tough talkers that would back down from no one, EVER... When you played the Pittsburgh Steelers, you knew you were in for an ass kicking. You went home sore and bruised. Win or lose, you were beaten up. Guys like Lambert, Lloyd, Dawson, Shell, Mean Joe, Mansfield, Bettis and so many others were the face of the Steelers. Fucking Steelers / Raiders games weren't games at all, they were a damn WAR.... Rules were made to protect other players just because of how we played. (Anyone remember the "Head-Slap"?) Now, it's a much different game. A lot of finesse, speed, deception and the like. No more powering through a block to knock a quarterback senseless. Hell, if you hit a quarterback too hard, even legally you get a flag. I don't like it. I don't think there are many from Pittsburgh that do. But it is what it is and to keep winning in the "New Game", I guess we will have to continue to change. I really don't think there will ever be another real Steeler team as we knew them. I don't like it but I guess there is no choice. I sure do miss those days though.....

[Rambo steel]

Ah ha!!! There it is folks! The infamous "root for someone else"! Right on schedule.
HaHa it was only a matter of time!

I've never been much to care what others say; I miss Steeler football. I miss when teams would totally abandon the run because they knew that they were not going to run against us. I miss pounding the ball down the opposing teams' throats because they knew it was coming but they couldn't stop it no how no way. I miss blitzing the hell out of the quarterback and actually getting sacks, like the old Blitzburgh. Most of all, I miss the physical presence that we used to show on the field, that we apparently don't have any longer....

[Vindrow]

Right now they do seem to be searching for themselves, but to be honest it they switch to a 4-3 D, or become a pass happy offense I don't care as long as they win.

[Penguins Fan]

What we call "Steeler football" isn't around right now because the offensive line sucks, the defensive line can't produce a pass rush and the linebackers are old and slow.

The Steelers have several good players at the "skill" positions and a near-complete lack of the guys that can "line up and hit 'em in the mouth".

Arians is horrid and needs to go.
The offensive line is in need of a total overhaul.
Timmons and Woodley had better be starting next year. Foote and Haggans need to be cut.
The defensive line is in need of some studs. Hampton and Smith are getting old. Kiesel is nearly invisible.

The Steelers have played a 3-4 since 1982 and it's time to scrap it. There needs to be a pass rush from the defensive line without a blitz. Brady destroys the blitz. Brady has shredded the Steelers blitz. The blitz cannot be relied on as a major part of the defense.

[SteelCity1w]

There was a time when Steeler Football was a direct reflection of the city of Pittsburgh. Hard-nosed, Blue coller, tough assed working people. mill workers that drank thier shot & a beer after a shift at the iron works. Mean son-a-bitches that would fight at the drop of a hat. Tough talkers that would back down from no one, EVER... When you played the Pittsburgh Steelers, you knew you were in for an ass kicking. You went home sore and bruised. Win or lose, you were beaten up. Guys like Lambert, Lloyd, Dawson, Shell, Mean Joe, Mansfield, Bettis and so many others were the face of the Steelers. Fucking Steelers / Raiders games weren't games at all, they were a damn WAR.... Rules were made to protect other players just because of how we played. (Anyone remember the "Head-Slap"?) Now, it's a much different game. A lot of finesse, speed, deception and the like. No more powering through a block to knock a quarterback senseless. Hell, if you hit a quarterback too hard, even legally you get a flag. I don't like it. I don't think there are many from Pittsburgh that do. But it is what it is and to keep winning in the "New Game", I guess we will have to continue to change. I really don't think there will ever be another real Steeler team as we knew them. I don't like it but I guess there is no choice. I sure do miss those days though.....

Couldn't have said it better myself

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

...with Ben's contract coming up, I don't see him liking the idea for 15-20 throws a game again no matter who the OC is. Just a thought.

Good point.

But maybe someone (preferably with the last name Rooney) needs to explain to him that he's an Indian, not the chief.

Something about a 25-year-old running the team is unsettling. I know that's overstating it, but his coziness with Coach A is a little bothersome.

It could make it harder to let consider letting Arians go. And that would be a bummer...

[FAB802]

1. There's nothing wrong with pointing out issues with the team. There's nothing wrong with bitching about them every day if you so choose either.
2. Part of the reason we aren't doing the things we used to do is we don't have the personnel to do it. It's painfully obvious that our line isn't good enough to just line up and stuff the run down the throats of some teams. However, Arians tries when it isn't working and abandons the run when it is. Defensively our linebackers can't get past me, let alone an NFL caliber offensive lineman. I love Lebeau, but he needs to figure out a different plan quick or the playoff's will be one and done. It seems as though the league has pretty much figured out how to neutralize what he's doing.
3. The find another team thing was more tongue in cheek, but some of you need to resign yourselves to the fact that the NFL has pussified the game by slanting all the rules toward passing offense. That seventies defense would lead the league in penalties if they played now like they did back then. It's just the way it is, and I hate it too. They may as well put pink pinnies on the QB.
4. This team isn't as good as a lot of us want to believe, and it isn't as bad as some others believe either. We are a playoff caliber team, but if there aren't some major changes to the philosophy on both sides of the ball come playoff time it'll be a fast trip.
5. I'm not too thrilled with all the laughing and fraternizing with the enemy during games either. I don't care what the circumstance is they have no business yukking it up during a game.
6. With the number of board members going to St. Louis here's hoping we get our shit together for this game! Otherwise they may have a few extra guests of the state come Friday morning.

[1st & 10]

On the plus side we are having a better year than we did last year.

[TMC]

When I think of "Steelers" football. I think of attitude.
This team just doesn't have it.

To me "Steeler" football isn't a scheme. 4-3, 3-4. Doesn't matter. Run 60% of the time or 30% of the time. Doesn't matter.

As long as the players you have in those positions line up to impose thier will and punch people in the mouth. It is all attitude! Sadly this team just goes through the motions of playing.

People talk about how the team was 8-8 last year under the Chin. Here are last years results.
5 Sun. Oct. 8 @San Diego Chargers 8:15 PM L 23–13
6 Sun. Oct. 15 Kansas City Chiefs 1:00 PM W 45–7
7 Sun. Oct. 22 @Atlanta Falcons (OT) 1:00 PM L 41–38
8 Sun. Oct. 29 @Oakland Raiders 4:05 PM L 20–13
9 Sun. Nov. 5 Denver Broncos 1:00 PM L 31–20
10 Sun. Nov. 12 New Orleans Saints 4:15 PM W 38–31
11 Sun. Nov. 19 @Cleveland Browns 1:00 PM* W 24–20
12 Sun. Nov. 26 @Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 27–0
13 Sun. Dec. 3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 PM* W 20–3
14 Thu. Dec. 7 Cleveland Browns 8:30 PM W 27–7
15 Sun. Dec. 17 @Carolina Panthers 1:00 PM* W 37–3
16 Sun. Dec. 24 Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM L 31–7
17 Sun. Dec. 31 @Cincinnati Bengals (OT) 1:00 PM* W 23–17

Notice the Loses were at the beginning of the season when Ben was hurt. But notice how at the end of year Bill had these players playing. They just couldn't overcome the hole they dug.

Now look at this year. The team is inconsistant. There is no fire. They just play with no emotion and wishy washy. Have no attitude, no identity. nothing. That is coaching.

I want to give Tomlin a pass his first year. But damn it. He needs to start coaching. Does he actualy do anything during games? Even in the patriots game the Dark Lord was over and coaching his defense during the game.

Has tomlin ever even spoken to a player on the sideline? or does he just stand there the whole time with his mic up by his forehead?

Our team has plenty of attitude. They will gladly tell you how they are going to beat your ass. Ask Anthony Smith, he has PLENTY of attitude. Of course, you never see that out of Troy Polamalu. Who would you rather have, the guy with attitude or the guy that plays his ass off?

Now, looking at last years schedule, when do you consider Ben getting healthy? When they started winning? He was not healthy until they started winning?

Answer this question, how many teams with WINNING records did they beat last season?
ONE. ONE team, ALL year. The only team they beat with a winning record was New Orleans. The Panthers were 8-8. The Bengals were 8-8. The rest were sub-.500. We won at the end of last season IN SPITE of Roethlisberger, not because of him. He completed more than 60% of his passes twice in the last 8 games. He threw more than 30 times in a game in only three games, and two of those were against the Ravens. We lost both of those pathetically. Not 1 game did he throw for more than 300 yards. Now, would you like to discuss Parkers games of 213, 223, 132, and 134. What about three games in a row where the Steelers only allowed 1 TD and no one scored more than 7.

We did not win because Ben got healthy. We hit a softer stretch of our schedule. Ben quit handing the other team points. He still threw 9 of his career high 23 INTs, but at least he quit throwing INTs for TDs.

And, we lost Sunday because we continued to throw and our WRs had a bad case of the drops. We should have stuck the ball in Parker's gut like Jacksonville did. Again, they did not stop our offense. Parker had 100 yards on 14 carries. We quit running in the 2nd half. Parker had 8 carries for 50 yards.

Fourteen rushes in a game. WRs that are dropping passes. And, we still hang with a 10-4 team until the 4th quarter. Yeah, we suck. Tell me how good we did against the Raiders last year. And, the Ravens beat us worse last season (twice) than anyone has this season and BOTH of those came after the 2-6 start.

[TMC]

Jacksonville couldn't stop the Steelers' offense? You cannot possibly be serious with that statement.

Your idea of unstoppable is piling up 217 yards of offense, going 5-for-13 on third downs, putting together one scoring drive longer than 31 yards, and averaging 2.8 yards per passing play?

Wow.

Yeah, they shut Willie Parker down. I mean, his 100 yards on 14 carries was tough sledding for the guy. And, lets not count how many drops the WRs had.

While you point towards 2.8 yards per passing play, what about 6.5 yards per rush. You do realize that we ran the ball BETTER than Jacksonville did, they just ran it more, 42 to 17 to be exact. If we had been as committed to the run as they were, the Steelers would have had 273 yards rushing.

Yeah, they shut us down.

Keep chasing a state that backs up that they stuffed us. Why don't you tell us how many passes were dropped or overthrown. Why is that important? Because that is not getting stopped, it is stopping yourself.

[Steelerman]

Keep chasing a state that backs up that they stuffed us.

How about 5 sacks? Also, I don't think we had more than 100 total yards of offense until the 4th quarter. I could be wrong but it was close. We had ONE good drive the whole game. 84 yards. The next longest drive we had was 26. TMC, you are smart when it comes to football....but you are wrong. We were stuffed.

[TMC]

How about 5 sacks? Also, I don't think we had more than 100 total yards of offense until the 4th quarter. I could be wrong but it was close.

And your point would be that STATS is what wins and loses games? Wait, would it be first half stats?

The New England Patriots faced the Steelers and at halftime, the Steelers had the edge in yards, time of possession, rush yards, total plays, and had only allowed 1 sack.

They were losing by 4. In fact, with the exception of 1 big play by Brady to Moss, the Steelers had held the Patriots to less than 150 total yards.

How did that game turn out?

Did we stuff the Patriots?

Did you point out these stats after the first game against Cleveland? You know, the game where Ben only threw for 161 yards and Parker only ran for 109. We only had 159 yards passing (we lost 2 yards on a sack). Why wasn't it important then? Oh yeah, because the defense forced turnovers and we got the short field, led, and won. Everything is fine when you win and sucks when you lose.

Forget that we were facing the Browns then and the Jags now. Hey, what about Cincy in the 2nd game, you know, when Ben threw for 184 yards with 2 INTs and Parker did not break 100 yards on 28 carries against the FUCKING BENGALS defense. The Steelers managed 285 total yards against the Bengals. Yet, they won by 14. Did you point out how bad we were then?

Do you think the Patriots fans are bitching because the Ravens and Eagles took them to the final few minutes? Do you think they are worried because the Jets played them within 10?

I bet they are not whimpering about their team not playing perfect football.

I bet you bitched and moaned all through 2005 as well.

It is what it is. This team has a new head coach. It is not Tomlin's fault that Cowher gave the Steelers the big FUCK YOU. It is not LeBeau's fault that Porter wanted more money, Clark has an illness, or Aaron Smith blows out his bicep. It is not Arian's fault that our FRANCHISE QB wants to pass more and Hartings retired. We are not the same team we were in 2005, but that does not mean they cannot get in the playoffs and shock someone. Pack it in if you fucking want, but I waited ALL OFFSEASON after a pathetic 8-8 season from an uninspired team.

And, LAST YEAR, they played Steeler/Cowher/however the fuck you say it football. EIGHT AND FUCKING EIGHT.

Keep it. I'll take my 43 sacks, my uninspired team, my lack of stats, and piss poor line and keep the 9-5 record.

[Steelerman]

And your point would be that STATS is what wins and loses games? Wait, would it be first half stats?

The New England Patriots faced the Steelers and at halftime, the Steelers had the edge in yards, time of possession, rush yards, total plays, and had only allowed 1 sack.

They were losing by 4. In fact, with the exception of 1 big play by Brady to Moss, the Steelers had held the Patriots to less than 150 total yards.

How did that game turn out?

Did we stuff the Patriots?

So you're pointing out one half of an entire game? They had over 400 yards of offense and racked up 34 points on us.



Did you point out these stats after the first game against Cleveland? You know, the game where Ben only threw for 161 yards and Parker only ran for 109. We only had 159 yards passing (we lost 2 yards on a sack). Why wasn't it important then? Oh yeah, because the defense forced turnovers and we got the short field, led, and won. Everything is fine when you win and sucks when you lose.

Forget that we were facing the Browns then and the Jags now. Hey, what about Cincy in the 2nd game, you know, when Ben threw for 184 yards with 2 INTs and Parker did not break 100 yards on 28 carries against the FUCKING BENGALS defense. The Steelers managed 285 total yards against the Bengals. Yet, they won by 14. Did you point out how bad we were then?

Do you think the Patriots fans are bitching because the Ravens and Eagles took them to the final few minutes? Do you think they are worried because the Jets played them within 10?

I bet they are not whimpering about their team not playing perfect football.

I bet you bitched and moaned all through 2005 as well.

It is what it is. This team has a new head coach. It is not Tomlin's fault that Cowher gave the Steelers the big FUCK YOU. It is not LeBeau's fault that Porter wanted more money, Clark has an illness, or Aaron Smith blows out his bicep. It is not Arian's fault that our FRANCHISE QB wants to pass more and Hartings retired. We are not the same team we were in 2005, but that does not mean they cannot get in the playoffs and shock someone. Pack it in if you fucking want, but I waited ALL OFFSEASON after a pathetic 8-8 season from an uninspired team.

And, LAST YEAR, they played Steeler/Cowher/however the fuck you say it football. EIGHT AND FUCKING EIGHT.

Keep it. I'll take my 43 sacks, my uninspired team, my lack of stats, and piss poor line and keep the 9-5 record.

You need some meds dude. You simply CANNOT accept when a person disagrees with you. Ever.

You can reference past games all you want but they all have different scenarios/results. Obviously the yardage meant shit against Cleveland because of field position. The Cincy game was shitty weather/field. The fact is that the Steelers only had one good drive on Sunday and 7 of their points came as a result of a gift INT by Smith. I'm watching the game on NFL Replay right now and we were not offensively stellar in that game. I don't know why this is such a big deal that makes you go into a typical TMC rant. You don't need to prove anything to me.

[SteelAddiction]

And your point would be that STATS is what wins and loses games? Wait, would it be first half stats?

The New England Patriots faced the Steelers and at halftime, the Steelers had the edge in yards, time of possession, rush yards, total plays, and had only allowed 1 sack.

They were losing by 4. In fact, with the exception of 1 big play by Brady to Moss, the Steelers had held the Patriots to less than 150 total yards.

How did that game turn out?

Did we stuff the Patriots?

Did you point out these stats after the first game against Cleveland? You know, the game where Ben only threw for 161 yards and Parker only ran for 109. We only had 159 yards passing (we lost 2 yards on a sack). Why wasn't it important then? Oh yeah, because the defense forced turnovers and we got the short field, led, and won. Everything is fine when you win and sucks when you lose.

Forget that we were facing the Browns then and the Jags now. Hey, what about Cincy in the 2nd game, you know, when Ben threw for 184 yards with 2 INTs and Parker did not break 100 yards on 28 carries against the FUCKING BENGALS defense. The Steelers managed 285 total yards against the Bengals. Yet, they won by 14. Did you point out how bad we were then?

Do you think the Patriots fans are bitching because the Ravens and Eagles took them to the final few minutes? Do you think they are worried because the Jets played them within 10?

I bet they are not whimpering about their team not playing perfect football.

I bet you bitched and moaned all through 2005 as well.

It is what it is. This team has a new head coach. It is not Tomlin's fault that Cowher gave the Steelers the big FUCK YOU. It is not LeBeau's fault that Porter wanted more money, Clark has an illness, or Aaron Smith blows out his bicep. It is not Arian's fault that our FRANCHISE QB wants to pass more and Hartings retired. We are not the same team we were in 2005, but that does not mean they cannot get in the playoffs and shock someone. Pack it in if you fucking want, but I waited ALL OFFSEASON after a pathetic 8-8 season from an uninspired team.

And, LAST YEAR, they played Steeler/Cowher/however the fuck you say it football. EIGHT AND FUCKING EIGHT.

Keep it. I'll take my 43 sacks, my uninspired team, my lack of stats, and piss poor line and keep the 9-5 record.

very well stated and I agree 100%

[topseed]

Yeah, they shut Willie Parker down. I mean, his 100 yards on 14 carries was tough sledding for the guy. And, lets not count how many drops the WRs had.

While you point towards 2.8 yards per passing play, what about 6.5 yards per rush. You do realize that we ran the ball BETTER than Jacksonville did, they just ran it more, 42 to 17 to be exact. If we had been as committed to the run as they were, the Steelers would have had 273 yards rushing.

Yeah, they shut us down.

Keep chasing a state that backs up that they stuffed us. Why don't you tell us how many passes were dropped or overthrown. Why is that important? Because that is not getting stopped, it is stopping yourself.

You didn't say, "They couldn't stop Willie Parker." You said they couldn't stop the offense. Not one and the same thing, sir. You talk about the yards per rush, yet ignore the paltry total yardage number and poor third down conversion rate? Those don't count for anything in your world of the unstoppable?

The Steelers ran the ball better than Jacksonville? You're out of your goddamn mind. Any unbiased football fan who watched that contest wouldn't need to "chase a stat" to realize which team dominated the ground game, but in fact, I do have a few numbers for you: You do realize that 27 of those Steelers rushing yards came on a lateral that was essentially a passing play, and Ben scrambled twice for another 15? So that leaves 69 yards on 14 carries. Big fucking deal. The Jaguars ran the ball right up the middle, down the throat of the Pittsburgh defense all day, took two knees for a yard loss at the end of the game, and still averaged 5.3 yards per rush.

In case you weren't aware, dropped/bad passes are part of the game. The Jags pressured Ben. They sacked him five times. They forced some of those poor throws. You're going to sit there and say Jacksonville was unable to stop the Steelers, because Pittsburgh couldn't execute its own offense efficiently?

Wow.

[TMC]

You didn't say, "They couldn't stop Willie Parker." You said they couldn't stop the offense. Not one and the same thing, sir. You talk about the yards per rush, yet ignore the paltry total yardage number and poor third down conversion rate? Those don't count for anything in your world of the unstoppable?

The Steelers ran the ball better than Jacksonville? You're out of your goddamn mind. Any unbiased football fan who watched that contest wouldn't need to "chase a stat" to realize which team dominated the ground game, but in fact, I do have a few numbers for you: You do realize that 27 of those Steelers rushing yards came on a lateral that was essentially a passing play, and Ben scrambled twice for another 15? So that leaves 69 yards on 14 carries. Big fucking deal. The Jaguars ran the ball right up the middle, down the throat of the Pittsburgh defense all day, took two knees for a yard loss at the end of the game, and still averaged 5.3 yards per rush.

In case you weren't aware, dropped/bad passes are part of the game. The Jags pressured Ben. They sacked him five times. They forced some of those poor throws. You're going to sit there and say Jacksonville was unable to stop the Steelers, because Pittsburgh couldn't execute its own offense efficiently?

Wow.

But, when you drop passes and miss throws, that is NOT someone stopping you, that is YOU failing to execute. And, if we start pulling some of the bigger runs out of the Jags numbers, like Taylor's long run, their stats look worse as well.

The Jags did not stop us, we FAILED to execute. The Steelers failed to get things done. Being beaten up and down the field is one thing, killing yourself is another. We killed ourself.

[TMC]

So you're pointing out one half of an entire game? They had over 400 yards of offense and racked up 34 points on us.



You need some meds dude. You simply CANNOT accept when a person disagrees with you. Ever.

You can reference past games all you want but they all have different scenarios/results. Obviously the yardage meant shit against Cleveland because of field position. The Cincy game was shitty weather/field. The fact is that the Steelers only had one good drive on Sunday and 7 of their points came as a result of a gift INT by Smith. I'm watching the game on NFL Replay right now and we were not offensively stellar in that game. I don't know why this is such a big deal that makes you go into a typical TMC rant. You don't need to prove anything to me.

The Steelers were down by 15 to the Jags and came back and tied the game. You have to be pointing to the early part of the game as the point when they played badly. They could not have played poorly the whole game, it was tied in the 4th. So, what are you pointing towards? Stats? Not a poor half? What?

You mean games have different scenarios? The gift field position against Cleveland negated the fact that they were not rolling all over the field and the weather was a Cincy reason, but hey, the snow and cold had no effect on Sunday and we should point to the fact the Steelers only had one long scoring drive. Forget the field position in this game, different scenarios....LOL.

I NEVER stated they were offensively stellar. I stated that the Jags could not stop them. They did not stop them. Parker had 100 yards on 14 carries. Ben missed several receivers high and our receivers dropped some passes. They were not knocked away, thrown away because of coverage, batted at the line by great defensive plays, etc.

We FAILED to execute on a day where it rained and snowed. I am sure weather played no part. I am sure Ben was not missing passes because he did not practice all week due to a bad shoulder. I am sure he was not missing high because he was not following through, because of a bad shoulder. I am sure that Holmes high ankle sprain is healed and he played at 100%. I am sure that our defense did not miss Aaron Smith against the run. I am sure that Marvel Smith did not suck because he rushed back from an injury and played poorly.

But, lets forget all those things and talk about how the team just sucks. Injuries, weather, playing a good team be damned.

[BillvinCowbert]

But, when you drop passes and miss throws, that is NOT someone stopping you, that is YOU failing to execute. And, if we start pulling some of the bigger runs out of the Jags numbers, like Taylor's long run, their stats look worse as well.

The Jags did not stop us, we FAILED to execute. The Steelers failed to get things done. Being beaten up and down the field is one thing, killing yourself is another. We killed ourself.

He's not "pulling out the big running plays"... he's pulling out plays that WERE NOT running plays. If you're going to claim that they couldn't stop the run, that doesn't really include a play where Ben is nearly sacked and drops it off to Willie.

[topseed]

But, when you drop passes and miss throws, that is NOT someone stopping you, that is YOU failing to execute. And, if we start pulling some of the bigger runs out of the Jags numbers, like Taylor's long run, their stats look worse as well.

The Jags did not stop us, we FAILED to execute. The Steelers failed to get things done. Being beaten up and down the field is one thing, killing yourself is another. We killed ourself.

Now you want to discount the way Jacksonville ran the ball by not including their longer runs? Last time I checked, those still count; that's why they call it an average. See, Taylor's long was indeed a run. Parker's long technically was a run, but seemingly most of us can understand it was a passing play at its core.


I really find it hard to believe you've continued to argue this, but fine, let's break it down a step further.

The Steelers had seven first half possessions:

#1: Willie 2 runs for nothing. Ben sacked. Punt.
#2: 2 first downs, a Ben scramble and a Willie run. Willie for 5. Incomplete pass into double coverage. Ben sacked. Punt.

Gee, no sign of "killing ourselves" just yet. Seems like pretty good Jags defense to me.

#3: Incomplete pass into coverage. 8 yard pass to Holmes. Deep incompletion to Holmes.

Was it a bad pass by Ben on third down? Can't remember, but I would question throwing it long from the Jax 42 when they only needed 2 yards for a first down (but the playcalling is another story).

#4: Start on the Jax 31. Willie for 13. 2 incomplete passes into coverage. 18-yard touchdown to Miller.

Perfect example of the unstoppable Steelers offense here...nothing fortuitous about that tipped ball that was still caught.

#5: Pass to Ward for 4. Willie for 8. Willie for 1. Ben sacked. Davenport for a loss of 4. Punt.

Killed ourselves again.

#6: Holding on Mahan. Willie for 7. 2 incompletions, one pressured. Punt.

I think one of the drops you keep bringing up happened on second down here, from Ward. That one did hurt.

#7: Four completions against the prevent. Holmes fumbles. End of half.


Looks to me like 3 Steelers' drives got choked off by Jacksonville sacks, they got a lucky touchdown on a short drive, had another ruined by a poor playcall, had one ended by a drop, and had another ended by halftime.

You see a defense that couldn't stop Pittsburgh, do you? God bless your rose-colored glasses, my friend.

[Spike]

You whiny bitches are gonna look pretty stupid when the Steelers win the SB.
Whachu gonna cry about then?

[THE flafan]

You whiny bitches are gonna look pretty stupid when the Steelers win the SB.
Whachu gonna cry about then?


they won it w/out playing Steeler football...

[Steelerman]

Was it over when the Jews bombed Pearl Harbor??

[CoolieMan]

damn good thing this team isn't 5-9....some of these guys might be slitting their wrists...

[Steelerman]

damn good thing this team isn't 5-9....some of these guys might be slitting their wrists...


Half of us still have blood stains on our keyboards from 2-7 last year.

[Steeler B]

I love the fact that everyone is down on the Steelers--this is when we're at our best. We will Kill the Rams and eventually win the North. Please GOD let us play the Jags again....we'll see who the Steelers are then. Love rematch games.

[TMC]

He's not "pulling out the big running plays"... he's pulling out plays that WERE NOT running plays. If you're going to claim that they couldn't stop the run, that doesn't really include a play where Ben is nearly sacked and drops it off to Willie.

So, I did not see anyone logging those yards into the passing stats. Do we just throw them out all together? Even without this one run of what, 27 yards, Parker still had 13 carries for 73 yards. That is over 5 YPC.

[Turbo Pig]

they won it w/out playing Steeler football...


No they didn't...

[TMC]

Now you want to discount the way Jacksonville ran the ball by not including their longer runs? Last time I checked, those still count; that's why they call it an average. See, Taylor's long was indeed a run. Parker's long technically was a run, but seemingly most of us can understand it was a passing play at its core.


I really find it hard to believe you've continued to argue this, but fine, let's break it down a step further.

The Steelers had seven first half possessions:

You see a defense that couldn't stop Pittsburgh, do you? God bless your rose-colored glasses, my friend.

Then why didn't you count that in the passing yards? You seem to be sticking to that 2.8 yards per pass play.......if it was a passing play at its core, why didn't you add it there? And, what about the other 13 runs for 73 yards? Is that stopping a back? The dump was a run because, by definition, it was a run. If you want to refigure the stats, go ahead....I'll wait.

And, I can just as easily go through Jacksonville's first half possessions and talk about how we stopped them, but in reality, we did not. They had 6 first half possessions and 4 of them were punts.

As for our possessions, the first drive was horrid. The 2nd possession had a first down and a run by Parker of 16 yards. It was 2nd and 5 and they threw it incomplete. It was not some great coverage. Then came the sack.

On the 4th drive, it was three incomplete passes, TWO went deep. The next drive they scored. It had a 13 yard run by Parker and then the catch by Miller. It is not like it was some miracle tip either, the ball did not hang up or take some unusual bounce. The LB was lucky to touch it and Miller made a play. We looked bad because guys did not make plays like Miller did on this drive, not because Jacksonville was playing outstanding defense.

Neither defense was exceptional. The difference is, their offense executed plays. The receivers caught the balls thrown their way and Garard threw enough close enough to let them make plays. Ben had quite a few that sailed high and his deep passes were long. Ward dropped one. I know Miller had a drop. I am pretty sure that Holmes missed one, probably 2.

Each time you fail to make a play, you put yourself behind the chains. It means that instead of getting a first down, you are punting.....instead of having 2nd and 1, you are at 2nd and 10.

Our offense beat itself. On defense, Jacksonville took it to us, but you can bet, they are not sitting in a film room this week amazed at how well their defense played.

This team has key injuries and we need these guys to get healthy. IMO, this game was lost because we had key guys playing injured. You do not throw the ball with a QB that missed practice all week and is nursing a sore shoulder. Your left tackle needs to be 100% and ours was not. You do not replace Aaron Smith in a week with 2 scrubs. I have little doubt that if Ben's passes would have been on target and the WRs would have caught the easy ones, we could have easily won this game.

Again, this offense killed itself. Name the plays where Jacksonville wowed anyone on defense? No grand interceptions by the secondary. Parker STILL had a 5+ YPC average dropping the fantom pass play. Ben tossed up a 90+ QB rating with a piss poor completion percentage.

And, the Jags had to rally in the 4th to win. You cannot tell me that when they converted the 2 point conversion, you did not feel this was the Steelers game.

[topseed]

Then why didn't you count that in the passing yards? You seem to be sticking to that 2.8 yards per pass play.......if it was a passing play at its core, why didn't you add it there? And, what about the other 13 runs for 73 yards? Is that stopping a back? The dump was a run because, by definition, it was a run. If you want to refigure the stats, go ahead....I'll wait.

I didn't count it in the passing yards because I really didn't need to. YOU were trying to tell me the Steelers ran the ball better than Jacksonville; I was simply showing that that clearly wasn't the case. Sticking to 2.8 yards a passing play? I mentioned that once, dude. Fine, let's add it to the passing total: It jumps it up to 3.4...woohoo! No matter how you slice it, the Jags outgained Pittsburgh 421 to 217. If you want to go ahead and believe Jacksonville nearly doubled them up in yardage because of a couple of drops and bad passes, again, God bless you.



And, I can just as easily go through Jacksonville's first half possessions and talk about how we stopped them, but in reality, we did not. They had 6 first half possessions and 4 of them were punts.

As for our possessions, the first drive was horrid. The 2nd possession had a first down and a run by Parker of 16 yards. It was 2nd and 5 and they threw it incomplete. It was not some great coverage. Then came the sack.

On the 4th drive, it was three incomplete passes, TWO went deep. The next drive they scored. It had a 13 yard run by Parker and then the catch by Miller. It is not like it was some miracle tip either, the ball did not hang up or take some unusual bounce. The LB was lucky to touch it and Miller made a play. We looked bad because guys did not make plays like Miller did on this drive, not because Jacksonville was playing outstanding defense.

Neither defense was exceptional. The difference is, their offense executed plays. The receivers caught the balls thrown their way and Garard threw enough close enough to let them make plays. Ben had quite a few that sailed high and his deep passes were long. Ward dropped one. I know Miller had a drop. I am pretty sure that Holmes missed one, probably 2.

Each time you fail to make a play, you put yourself behind the chains. It means that instead of getting a first down, you are punting.....instead of having 2nd and 1, you are at 2nd and 10.

Our offense beat itself. On defense, Jacksonville took it to us, but you can bet, they are not sitting in a film room this week amazed at how well their defense played.

This team has key injuries and we need these guys to get healthy. IMO, this game was lost because we had key guys playing injured. You do not throw the ball with a QB that missed practice all week and is nursing a sore shoulder. Your left tackle needs to be 100% and ours was not. You do not replace Aaron Smith in a week with 2 scrubs. I have little doubt that if Ben's passes would have been on target and the WRs would have caught the easy ones, we could have easily won this game.

Again, this offense killed itself. Name the plays where Jacksonville wowed anyone on defense? No grand interceptions by the secondary. Parker STILL had a 5+ YPC average dropping the fantom pass play. Ben tossed up a 90+ QB rating with a piss poor completion percentage.

And, the Jags had to rally in the 4th to win. You cannot tell me that when they converted the 2 point conversion, you did not feel this was the Steelers game.

TMC, I pointed out three drives in the first half alone where the Steelers did not "kill themselves," but were shut down or severely hampered by sacks. You admitted yourself that the first drive was horrid. You don't want to credit Jacksonville at all? Whatever. I'm sure they're all commiserating in that film room as we type.

As far as the game being tied at 22, sure, I was excited. Did I feel it was the Steelers' game at that point? Absolutely not. After the way the D was pushed around all day? No. Not after this "#1 defense" had already allowed late long drives to such powerhouses as the Cardinals, Broncos, and Jets.

You can make all sorts of excuses for any loss. I obviously cannot change your mind about your "unstoppable" argument, but I'm telling you, you're kidding yourself.

[paperclip]

Was it over when the Jews bombed Pearl Harbor??

i thought the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

woohoo. first post.

[Super Heathen]

i thought the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

.

No shit? All this time i thought it was Sudanese militants.

[SoCal Steeler Fan]

Fire it up Tomlin, attack the Rams!

We need a heavy dose of WP and slants to HW! For the D, well say a prayer! I hope TP brings his aggressiveness!

T

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Our offense beat itself. On defense, Jacksonville took it to us, but you can bet, they are not sitting in a film room this week amazed at how well their defense played.



Again, this offense killed itself. Name the plays where Jacksonville wowed anyone on defense? No grand interceptions by the secondary. Parker STILL had a 5+ YPC average dropping the fantom pass play. Ben tossed up a 90+ QB rating with a piss poor completion percentage.


Thanks TMC for validating me in my feelings that our Aryians (sp) is of the same caliber as Isiah Thomas and or say Kevin Gilbride.

[JohnnyO]

What's more important - winning games or playing "Steeler football"?

The Patriots have something like a 70-30% ratio in favor of passing. I bet they're sitting back right now wishing they could run the ball more.

Oh, and I've been a fan since 1969. I win.

I'd say whatever works with the talent that you have. If the Pats* had LT on their team they'd be running.
1969 here too, or at least that's when I was old enough to understand the difference between college ball and pro ball and my uncle explained to me who Joe Greene was and that he did not like to lose.