Franchise tag option for Faneca

[mesaSteeler]

Franchise tag option for Faneca

By Mike Bires, Times sports staff

PITTSBURGH — If the Steelers want to really play hard ball with Alan Faneca, they could keep him for at least one more year by slapping the “franchise player” tag on him.

Kevin Colbert, the Steelers’ director of football operations, said Monday that franchising Faneca, the seven-time Pro Bowl guard who’s eligible for unrestricted free agency, isn’t probable. But it’s nonetheless an option the Steelers can exercise if they chose to do so.

“The franchise tag is always at our disposal,” Colbert said. “Traditionally, we do not use the franchise tag, because, as an organization, we want to have players that want to be part of our organization. But we will never say we’ll never use the franchise tag because it’s a collective bargaining tool that’s at our disposal.”

All NFL teams are allowed to designate one franchise player.

An “exclusive” franchise player, who would not be free to sign with another team, is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at that player's position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

This past season, Faneca’s base salary was only $4.375 million, a $1 million roster bonus included.

If the Steelers would tag Faneca as a franchise player, he would receive a one-year contract worth roughly $9 million. Last year’s franchise tag salary for an offensive lineman was $9.5 million.

Only once since Colbert came to Pittsburgh in 2000 have the Steelers exercised their right to tag someone a franchise player. That was in 2002 when they tagged linebacker Jason Gildon.

Faneca, the Steelers’ No. 1 pick in the 1998 NFL Draft, was hoping to receive a lucrative extension before the 2007 season. But during mini-camp in May when he sensed he wouldn’t get that deal, he declared, “This will be my last year as a Pittsburgh Steeler.”

Last week, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said he still believes a deal can be struck that would enable Faneca to end his career in Pittsburgh.

Colbet said Monday that “We have not closed the door on that at all.” But he still didn’t sound optimistic about a deal getting done.

Colbert said he and Steelers management are studying the team’s salary cap situation, their own list of free agents and the league-wide free agent list.

But because the demand for Faneca is likely to be high, it will be difficult for the Steelers to make him an offer he’ll get elsewhere.

“Any time a player gets to free agency, you’re going to have more competition for that player, and obviously the compensation will usually go up,” Colbert said. “That’s why we try to sign guys before free agency. They get some security and we get a more workable deal.

“So we can still sign (Alan), but usually, once they get to this point, they’re willing to wait it out and unless you give them the compensation they’re looking for.”

[Hines57]

I'm all for it. The Pats did it with Samuel and then worked out a deal. We need to keep Big Red

[TMC]

If we piss away $10M on a 31-year old guard, we will end up paying for it for the next 5 seasons. If a long-term deal cannot be worked out, move on.

That is $10M that could be put towards signing Ben and it would keep his cap costs LOWER in the future, allowing the Steelers to be more viable with the cap. Spend it on one season with Faneca and you have cap issues later.

Pass.

[Hines57]

We arent going to have a franchise QB if the line we put in front of him to protect him ain't worth a damn. We need to tag Faneca if we cant get him signed to a deal.

[TMC]

I'm all for it. The Pats did it with Samuel and then worked out a deal. We need to keep Big Red

They never worked out a deal with Samuel. He signed the franchise tender and played. They paid him almost $8M this season. Now, the Pats are expected to have between $5-$10M under the cap and Samuel will be one of the hottest commodities in free agency this season.

So, instead of using that $7M to pay him and extend him (or someone else), they have used it in one season, will have to make moves this offseason to create room, and will still lose him.

http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/sports/BO60838/

They need to win it all this season.....because they cannot afford to hold this team together much longer. Moss, Samuel, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Eugene Wilson are all free agents. Donte Stallworth has some type of option bonus that has to be paid. I have read that Harrison's contract could be up. The Pats could have screwed around and spent money that will cost them in the next few seasons.

[LetMePlay]

Hey guess what?

Our OL was not very good with Faneca in there.

I'm sure they can find a way to be not very good without Faneca.

[TMC]

We arent going to have a franchise QB if the line we put in front of him to protect him ain't worth a damn. We need to tag Faneca if we cant get him signed to a deal.

Bwwwhaaahaaa....because they played SO well the past two seasons WITH Faneca.

You franchise Faneca, you can forget signing Roethlisberger this offseason. If the Steelers have $18M in cap space and Faneca eats up $9.5M, that leaves $8.5M to tender the restricted and exclusive rights free agents and sign the rookie class. So, you have about $5M to make a run at Ben.

Riiiiiigggggghhhhhtttttt.

Sign Ben, draft a guard, move on. I hope you are not attempting to state it is easier to find a franchise QB than it is to find an offensive guard. It did not appear that we played any worse with Kemoeatu and Starks than we did with Smith and Faneca.

[Hines57]

They never worked out a deal with Samuel. He signed the franchise tender and played. They paid him almost $8M this season. Now, the Pats are expected to have between $5-$10M under the cap and Samuel will be one of the hottest commodities in free agency this season.

So, instead of using that $7M to pay him and extend him (or someone else), they have used it in one season, will have to make moves this offseason to create room, and will still lose him.

http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/sports/BO60838/

They need to win it all this season.....because they cannot afford to hold this team together much longer. Moss, Samuel, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Eugene Wilson are all free agents. Donte Stallworth has some type of option bonus that has to be paid. I have read that Harrison's contract could be up. The Pats could have screwed around and spent money that will cost them in the next few seasons.
I stand corrected. I still would prefer us to tag Faneca

[Sluzilla]

exactly LMP...


no way in hell i pay $10M for a 31 year old LG...don't care who it is...

[TMC]

And, the other upside of franchising Faneca, next season, when he hits free agency again, he goes with Marvel Smith, so instead of worrying about replacing one starter, you have to replace your whole left side.

So, not only have you spent money you could have used elsewhere, you have prolonged the replacement process and created a severely critical situation on the blindside of your QB. Instead of one rookie working at LG, you have a rookie at LG and a rookie at LT.

Maybe, they should franchise Faneca and spend this season teaching him to throw left handed, so next season, he can see who is fucking killing him.

[BLEEDS]

Anybody pay attention to what happened in Seattle - and what happened to the running game in Minnesota - when Hutchinson left?

Be afraid, be very afraid.

OG's - especially the UPPER ECHELON Guards - ARE difference makers.

Argue all you want. Alan is still a top 5 OG. We should do everything we can to see if we can retain him.

We WILL Notice a difference, mark it down.

The OL already sucks with him - we agree on that. However it will take an even BIGGER HIT when you lose the BEST Ol-man from the unit.

Sure, the best thing we could do is draft an OG in the first - reaching - or the 2nd (yeah, a 2nd round pick should step right in and be a force), and not skip a beat.

Worse case, you end up with a Sean Mahan, who did so well replacing a Pro-Bowl OL-men this year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[FlaStGrad]

In my perect world, we franchise AF and then trade him to Arizona for Boldin.

[Irv24]

If we piss away $10M on a 31-year old guard, we will end up paying for it for the next 5 seasons. If a long-term deal cannot be worked out, move on.

That is $10M that could be put towards signing Ben and it would keep his cap costs LOWER in the future, allowing the Steelers to be more viable with the cap. Spend it on one season with Faneca and you have cap issues later.

Pass.

I could not agree more. I love Faneca, but this is a business and we need Ben and SEVERAL other guys on that line. Alan may have played his way out of Pittsburgh.
Good luck to him and his new contract.

[FistfullofRings]

To franchise Faneca would be like the saying "We really low-balled him in our efforts to re-sign him last year."

Faneca is not worth the tag price. I would say I'd be shocked if he got that on the open market, but every year I'm shocked at what a desperate team is willing to pay a player.

[Hines57]

Anybody pay attention to what happened in Seattle - and what happened to the running game in Minnesota - when Hutchinson left?

Be afraid, be very afraid.

OG's - especially the UPPER ECHELON Guards - ARE difference makers.

Argue all you want. Alan is still a top 5 OG. We should do everything we can to see if we can retain him.

We WILL Notice a difference, mark it down.

The OL already sucks with him - we agree on that. However it will take an even BIGGER HIT when you lose the BEST Ol-man from the unit.

Sure, the best thing we could do is draft an OG in the first - reaching - or the 2nd (yeah, a 2nd round pick should step right in and be a force), and not skip a beat.

Worse case, you end up with a Sean Mahan, who did so well replacing a Pro-Bowl OL-men this year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS
That would require logic to process what happened in Seattle. Shaun Alexander may as well be on a milk carton without Hutchison. And thats WITH Walter Jones still playing LT. I see us struggling terribly sans Faneca if we don't handle this.

[BermudaSteel]

...They (the *'s) need to win it all this season.....because they cannot afford to hold this team together much longer. Moss, Samuel, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Eugene Wilson are all free agents. Donte Stallworth has some type of option bonus that has to be paid. I have read that Harrison's contract could be up. The Pats could have screwed around and spent money that will cost them in the next few seasons.

I agree w/ TMC and I have noticed the same thing about the *'s...they, as the 49er's of old, will go up in smoke w/i the next two years...and it'll take 'em years to fix it...YEARS!!! But that's their problem.

Now, as I said in "Ben's Wish List" - the only way we can keep Alan is if Ben is willing to sacrifice some $$$, like Marsha...the questions are - how much should Ben give up to keep Faneca, and, is it REALLY worth it? My answers/assumptions - I don't think an older, yes even a top 5 OG, is worth it. We know the REAL problem is our C and the entire L side of the OL (once AF leaves)...

Something has to be done...what? I don't know...How much will we spend to correct it...

The haze hasn't cleared yet...

[Super Heathen]

We all blather on endlessly about improving the line for next year yet we can accept the fact that AF's price tag is not within the teams needs. Soooooo, how does this line improve without Faneca? Oh yeah, we can draft 2 rooks, move Colon or Kemo over to LG, hope that Marvel's health improves, hope that Mahan becomes a real C, hope that SImmons play matches his salary, hope that Stapleton is the next Mike Webster........JHC!

I completely understand that you cannot pay everybody what the market dictates but to be so delusional to think that THIS line can improve by deleting Faneca, well, maybe it will get better in 09.

Sure am glad we extended Simmons though...hate to see this o-line without him.

Right.

[BLEEDS]

I We know the REAL problem is our C and the entire L side of the OL (once AF leaves)...

YA THINK!?!?

Smith at RT - HUGE question Mark. LG - HUGE question mark. C - no question, it's a KNOWN MAGNITUDE OF SUCKITUDE NOT KNOWN SINCE BEFORE MIKE WEBSTER (i.e. most of us weren't born).


Something has to be done...what? I don't know...How much will we spend to correct it...

The haze hasn't cleared yet...



I would sign Faneca and say we were moving him to Center. 7 years $49M. $17M in Bonus.

CUT Mahan, after June 1, we can afford $800K this year and next to NOT have him play.

Sign an OT at #23, sign an OG at #55. Another OL in the 3rd or 4th. Real Open competition in Training camp for all OT/OG positions.

Smith/rookieOT at LT, Play rookie/Kemo at LG, Simmons at RG, rookie OT/Colon at RT.

That's a good Start.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[BermudaSteel]

... Soooooo, how does this line improve without Faneca? Oh yeah, we can draft 2 rooks, move Colon or Kemo over to LG, hope that Marvel's health improves, hope that Mahan becomes a real C, hope that SImmons play matches his salary, hope that Stapleton is the next Mike Webster........JHC!

I completely understand that you cannot pay everybody what the market dictates but to be so delusional to think that THIS line can improve by deleting Faneca, well, maybe it will get better in 09.
.

I quit "hoping" and start praying...LOL

Bleeds has a great suggestion; but w/ all the depth problems across the ENTIRE roster...I think we'll need more than some Band-Aids to stop this...BLEEDING...( ya like that Bleeds? BBWWAAAAHAHAHAA)

Well my knees are 90 degrees and I know God hears my prayers...:D

[VaSteelerFan]

Mahan's cap hit is a lot more than 800K for the next two seasons if you cut him after June 1. He's only played one season of his deal... Cutting him after 6/1 basically just means you pay a single years worth of bonus as the hit saving the salary. The rest of the spread out bonus hit comes in 2009, not just 800K more.

Mahan signed a 5 year deal worth 17 Million with a 4 Million dollar bonus. He has played 1 year of the deal so there is 3.2Million dollars in bonus left to count.

Cut Mahan AFTER 6/1, his cap hits are...
$800,000 in 2008
$2,400,000 in 2009

Cut Mahan BEFORE 6/1, his cap hit is...
$3,200,000 in 2008
$0 in 2009

[BillvinCowbert]

If it happened, Franchising Faneca would rank among the most idiotic things the Steelers have ever done. Which is why they won't do it. It's painfully obvious that ONE GUY (Faneca) isn't the difference between a good line and a bad line. Tying up 9-10MM of cap space on Alan would be worse than the Mahan signing.

[Max Power]

Anybody pay attention to what happened in Seattle - and what happened to the running game in Minnesota - when Hutchinson left?

Be afraid, be very afraid.

OG's - especially the UPPER ECHELON Guards - ARE difference makers.

Argue all you want. Alan is still a top 5 OG. We should do everything we can to see if we can retain him.

We WILL Notice a difference, mark it down.

The OL already sucks with him - we agree on that. However it will take an even BIGGER HIT when you lose the BEST Ol-man from the unit.

Sure, the best thing we could do is draft an OG in the first - reaching - or the 2nd (yeah, a 2nd round pick should step right in and be a force), and not skip a beat.

Worse case, you end up with a Sean Mahan, who did so well replacing a Pro-Bowl OL-men this year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

You can not compare some other team's situation to ours. Look at the effect the tag would have on us going forward. It isn't pretty. We don't want to deviate from how this team goes about it's business. The business model works for the Steelers and it works well. You don't step outside the boundries without good reason. Faneca is very good at what he does. He deserves a huge payday but not at our expense. We chose not to go that route.

We will be fine, mark my words. I feel badly for Ben. This is his second appeal of sorts for the club to re-sign one of his players. Losing Plax hurt his feelings and he is still asking for equal replacement of him. Ben has a certain comfort level with Faneca, just as he had with Plax as one of his receivers. We simply refuse to put ourselves in Cap Danger and I agree with that policy. Ben understands the whats and whys of it, but that doesn't mean he has to like it.

[Sluzilla]

i'd rather have the 3rd round comp pick we get in 2009 from him signing with the Skins...

[Slaine]

As to the Pats their FA's are:

Asante Samuel
Randy Moss
Tedy Bruschi
Randall Gay
Junior Seau
Jabar Gaffney

Plus loose change. Vrabel is signed through 2009 on "take one for the team" wages. As an aside Corey Dillon hits their cap next year for nearly $4M :eek:

Donte Stallworth is signed to 2012 in theory but will almost certainly be waived as his cost for 2008 is reported as:

For the Patriots to retain Stallworth for the 2008 season, they must pay him an option bonus of $6 million by Feb. 25, 2008. There is a subsequent roster bonus of $2 million due on March 1, a second roster bonus of $1.6 million based on playing time, a base salary of $1 million and a $400,000 workout bonus. That totals an exorbitant $11 million for 2008.

The Patriots work using option bonuses but if Brady or Adalius Thomas or Richard Seymour get hurt badly then they are in so much cap shit it's unreal.

The bad news is that their OL is all signed through 2009 and some through to 2011.

Light 2010
Mankins 2009
Koppen 2011
Neal 2009
Kaczur 2009

[Steel Dino]

YA THINK!?!?

Smith at RT - HUGE question Mark. LG - HUGE question mark. C - no question, it's a KNOWN MAGNITUDE OF SUCKITUDE NOT KNOWN SINCE BEFORE MIKE WEBSTER (i.e. most of us weren't born).

-BLEEDS

Actually BLEEDS.....

Before Mike Webster we had Ray Mansfield.....who was very, very good.....

Last season was the worse play at center for the Steelers in 40 years!

Our mistake was not preparing ouselves properly for the loss of Hartings, that the Steelers knew was coming for a few years...

[Stoney]

Put me down as a firm 'NO' to the franchise option.

Have we ever franchised anyone?

[K from Cal]

I'd be more comfortable with transitioning Faneca. The transition tag would give us a chance to match whatever comes in.

------------
• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation. Transition players can be signed from March 3 through July 22."

[BLEEDS]

Mahan's cap hit is a lot more than 800K for the next two seasons if you cut him after June 1. He's only played one season of his deal... Cutting him after 6/1 basically just means you pay a single years worth of bonus as the hit saving the salary. The rest of the spread out bonus hit comes in 2009, not just 800K more.

Mahan signed a 5 year deal worth 17 Million with a 4 Million dollar bonus. He has played 1 year of the deal so there is 3.2Million dollars in bonus left to count.

Cut Mahan AFTER 6/1, his cap hits are...
$800,000 in 2008
$2,400,000 in 2009

Cut Mahan BEFORE 6/1, his cap hit is...
$3,200,000 in 2008
$0 in 2009

I stand corrected on that.

HOWEVER, given that the alternative is to PAY HIM:

2008: 2.175M
2009: 3.175M
2010: 3.5 M
2011: 3.5M

We'd save $2.15M in money/cap space overall - 1.375M in 2008, 775K in 2009 - and $7M in 2010/2011

Dude is REALLY not worth 2M+ in salary.

We are not above cutting our losses, we've done it before.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Slaine]

Have we ever franchised anyone?

Jason Gildon. But that was to give them more time to thrash out a contract, he didn't play under the tag.

We also tagged Carnell Lake but removed the tag before the beginning of free agency.

[Stoney]

I'd be more comfortable with transitioning Faneca. The transition tag would give us a chance to match whatever comes in.

------------
• A transition player has received a minimum offer of the average of the top 10 salaries of last season at the player's position or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation. Transition players can be signed from March 3 through July 22."

Thats pointless, we aren't going to match any offer he'll get from another team, so why prolong the agony?

As for Ben, I think he'll be okay if he sees the team make an effort to protect him by making 2 of the first 3 picks in the draft ofennsive linemen, and also try to grab a big reciever.

[VaSteelerFan]

Put me down as a firm 'NO' to the franchise option.

Have we ever franchised anyone?


Jason Gildon in 2002
Carnell Lake in 1995

[Sean]

Anybody pay attention to what happened in Seattle - and what happened to the running game in Minnesota - when Hutchinson left?

Be afraid, be very afraid.

OG's - especially the UPPER ECHELON Guards - ARE difference makers.

Argue all you want. Alan is still a top 5 OG. We should do everything we can to see if we can retain him.

We WILL Notice a difference, mark it down.

The OL already sucks with him - we agree on that. However it will take an even BIGGER HIT when you lose the BEST Ol-man from the unit.


While I agree that Steve Hutchinson is the best guard in the game, I also remember him playing immediately next to Walter Jones (possibly the best LT in the league) and the Shaun Alexander of yesteryear wasn't such a bleeding snatch. So comparing his situation to Alan Faneca's is really apples-to-oranges...

Hutchinson is a few years Faneca's junior, which makes it more understandable to dump a pile of money on his lap. While each player is one fluke injury away from never playing again, I'd say that Faneca's chances are moderately better because of all the wear on his tires.

I'd love to see Faneca retire as a Steeler. It's not going to happen though. The offensive line needs a complete overhaul, inclusive of Big Red. He's not the same player that he was just two or three years ago. And I believe that he can be replaced in THIS draft, to be honest...by much younger legs that saves the team millions of dollars.

By the way, how sick does it make you to watch Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Tony Romo sit in the pocket all day long until an available option opens up...while Ben Roethlisberger runs for his fucking life? Or to watch Willie Parker dance in the backfield until a hole opens up, despite the fact that the offensive line needs to hold their block for a lot less time than any other unit in the league...since Parker's probably the fastest RB in the league?

Forget what each player did in 2007, despite the lackluster play of the offensive line. Think about how they could perform behind a better unit...

[Steel Dino]

Jason Gildon in 2002
Carnell Lake in 1995

That was the year Carnell "had an ankle"......

[VaSteelerFan]

After winning a SB players are more likely to go after the big deal than something they have already done.

[thatrain]

Forget what each player did in 2007, despite the lackluster play of the offensive line. Think about how they could perform behind a better unit...

I keep thinking of what Willie Parker's numbers would have looked like if teams had to respect the pass because the couldn't count on getting to Ben, not to mention if he had better blocking for himself. And then I think of what Ben's numbers might have looked like if he hadn't been running for his life every other play.

We're a couple of OL from a juggernaut of an offense, honestly.

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

I say franchise Faneca and that way if we can't sign him we get something in return.

[Super Heathen]

Hutchinson is a few years Faneca's junior, which makes it more understandable to dump a pile of money on his lap.



1 year younger to be exact.

[BLEEDS]

Make all the excuses you want, but you can't deny the impact Hutshinson had one two teams - the one he LEFT and the one he WENT to.

OG's are very underrated IMO. The fact that many agree - TMC included, SN's resident draft guru - that there isn't an OG in the 2008 draft worth taking in the first round, says we're not replacing him in the Draft.

Anyone who thinks you can lose your BEST LINEMAN on an OL that is already suspect, and replace him with a 2nd round pick, and not lose a beat - in fact get BETTER - is NUTS!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[FistfullofRings]

I say franchise Faneca and that way if we can't sign him we get something in return.

No.

If you franchise someone, you are forcing yourself to sign him, at least for one year. Another team would be nuts to sign a player with a franchise tag.

[FistfullofRings]

I keep thinking of what Willie Parker's numbers would have looked like if teams had to respect the pass because the couldn't count on getting to Ben, not to mention if he had better blocking for himself. And then I think of what Ben's numbers might have looked like if he hadn't been running for his life every other play.

We're a couple of OL from a juggernaut of an offense, honestly.

You speak as if it was 1998 again. Ben's numbers were good, at least in part, due to the fact he was "running for his life". Some, if not most. of our biggest pass plays happened after Ben scrambled out of the pocket and the coverage broke down. Also, probably 1/3rd of our sacks were Ben's fault for hanging on to the ball too long.

There is room for improvemnent on our OL, but teams respected both our passing and our running game.

[Sluzilla]

I say franchise Faneca and that way if we can't sign him we get something in return.

if someone else signs him to the contract he wants...we'll get a compensatory pick in 2009...

[K from Cal]

Thats pointless, we aren't going to match any offer he'll get from another team, so why prolong the agony?

As for Ben, I think he'll be okay if he sees the team make an effort to protect him by making 2 of the first 3 picks in the draft ofennsive linemen, and also try to grab a big reciever.

and exactly what would we lose? This might move Faneca toward negotiating with us a bit more also.

[thatrain]

Make all the excuses you want, but you can't deny the impact Hutshinson had one two teams - the one he LEFT and the one he WENT to.

OG's are very underrated IMO. The fact that many agree - TMC included, SN's resident draft guru - that there isn't an OG in the 2008 draft worth taking in the first round, says we're not replacing him in the Draft.

Anyone who thinks you can lose your BEST LINEMAN on an OL that is already suspect, and replace him with a 2nd round pick, and not lose a beat - in fact get BETTER - is NUTS!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

If we get better at LT, RT, and C but worse at LG we will have a better OL.

You speak as if it was 1998 again. Ben's numbers were good, at least in part, due to the fact he was "running for his life". Some, if not most. of our biggest pass plays happened after Ben scrambled out of the pocket and the coverage broke down. Also, probably 1/3rd of our sacks were Ben's fault for hanging on to the ball too long.

There is room for improvemnent on our OL, but teams respected both our passing and our running game.

It looked to me like teams were running alot of 8 man fronts, but regardless.. perhaps they were respecting the pass and our run blocking was just that awful. Either way, our OL was bad this year and it affected both the passing and the running games, as they affect eachother. Both Parker and Roethlisberger had excellent years despite the OL, rarely because of it. If the OL improves, so will the play of our RB's and our QB, and if either can see a small improvement, the offense will be very difficult to stop.

[Stoney]

and exactly what would we lose? This might move Faneca toward negotiating with us a bit more also.

What do we gain by doig it? We aren't prepared to match any offers, so why screw with him and us?

[thatrain]

What do we gain by doig it? We aren't prepared to match any offers, so why screw with him and us?

It eliminates the possibility of a Rod Woodson scenario, where he goes somewhere for less than what we would have offered him.

[BillvinCowbert]

and exactly what would we lose? This might move Faneca toward negotiating with us a bit more also.

Probably about 8MM, the cost of the transition tag. Why don't we franchise AND transition tag him, pay him 18MM and give up 50 sacks next year, just to ensure that we "get something in return".... oh wait, we'd actually get a comp pick in 2009 anyway. Fuck it, pay him 30M next year and let him bone everyone's wife.

[thatrain]

Probably about 8MM, the cost of the transition tag. Why don't we franchise AND transition tag him, pay him 18MM and give up 50 sacks next year, just to ensure that we "get something in return".... oh wait, we'd actually get a comp pick in 2009 anyway. Fuck it, pay him 30M next year and let him bone everyone's wife.

It only costs $8 mil if no one signs him, and I don't think that's really a possibility. Anyway, it's probably less than that considering that's what the franchise tag costs.

[Blitzburghv5]

There's a very quick and simple way to cut down on the sacks which subsequently makes the pass protection of this line look better than it does: more 3 step drops, shorter routes and quick slants. Do this along with Ben gettin rid of the ball and our sack total is cut in half. Guaranteed. Then we'd be saying "our offensive line is about average, but we could use a new grunt there".

[Stoney]

It only costs $8 mil if no one signs him, and I don't think that's really a possibility.
So again I ask, whats the point?

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

if someone else signs him to the contract he wants...we'll get a compensatory pick in 2009...

Compensatory or 1st or 2nd rd pick. Hmmmmmm.

[BillvinCowbert]

Compensatory or 1st or 2nd rd pick. Hmmmmmm.

Comp pick or paying 9-10MM for one year for a 31-year old guard, hmmmmmmmm.

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

Comp pick or paying 9-10MM for one year for a 31-year old guard, hmmmmmmmm.

I keep hearing all you complain that Faneca is a 31 yr old guard. Fact of the matter is he is still one of the top 3-4 guards in the league. It's not his fault that the salaries for guards has skyrocketed with recent contracts. All of you who say we're better of without him do not have a clue. This will become apparent next year when the void at LG presents itself.
BTW-He WAS our best O-Lineman this year.

[BillvinCowbert]

I keep hearing all you complain that Faneca is a 31 yr old guard. Fact of the matter is he is still one of the top 3-4 guards in the league. It's not his fault that the salaries for guards has skyrocketed with recent contracts. All of you who say we're better of without him do not have a clue. This will become apparent next year when the void at LG presents itself.
BTW-He WAS our best O-Lineman this year.

Some of you really need to learn how to read. I'm going to make it as clear as I can, in case you're still having reading comprehension issues.

We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.

NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.

No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.

Tagging him is stupid because of the above two (eight) statements.

[thatrain]

So again I ask, whats the point?

Woodson, Rod

[thatrain]

Some of you really need to learn how to read. I'm going to make it as clear as I can, in case you're still having reading comprehension issues.

We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.
We will NOT be better off without him.

NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.
NO GUARD is worth 9MM+ for a one year contract.

No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.
No team isn't going to give up one OR two first rounders in a trade for Faneca.

Tagging him is stupid because of the above two (eight) statements.

Some of you need to learn to do math. And what is 9MM? 9 Millimeter?

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

Comp pick or paying 9-10MM for one year for a 31-year old guard, hmmmmmmmm.

I keep hearing all you complain that Faneca is a 31 yr old guard. Fact of the matter is he is still one of the top 3-4 guards in the league. It's not his fault that the salaries for guards has skyrocketed with recent contracts. All of you who say we're better of without him do not have a clue. This will become apparent next year when the void at LG presents itself.
BTW-He WAS our best O-Lineman this year.

I made that comment in reference to yours.

It's not the first time someone has posted something in regards to Faneca's age. Bottom line is that the state of our offensive line looks bleak. Not having Faneca will not improve the situation.

[Stoney]

Not the same. Rod did not sign with us because he didn't want to.
We simply can't afford to sign Alan, whether we want to or not.

You can't fix the Woodson mistake (if thats what you believe it was) by tagging Faneca.

[JohnnyO]

You franchise Faneca, you can forget signing Roethlisberger this offseason.
Exactly. Ask how much less Ben will take in order to sign everybody that Ben wants the team to keep or have. I bet it ain't much.
Even if they do franchise Faneca, it'll still blow the cap out of the water.

[bigtwnvin]

Pay Ben FAK Faneca

[BillvinCowbert]

Some of you need to learn to do math. And what is 9MM? 9 Millimeter?

That's 9 (Thousand Thousand) or 9 Million. There's A LOT of things I don't know much about, but math isn't one of them.

[K from Cal]

Actually we can afford him, however we may not be able to afford other things. Isn't that the way it always is though? Priorities, priorities, priorities

[K from Cal]

Compensatory or 1st or 2nd rd pick. Hmmmmmm.

I'll take the first rounder.

[BillvinCowbert]

I made that comment in reference to yours.

It's not the first time someone has posted something in regards to Faneca's age. Bottom line is that the state of our offensive line looks bleak. Not having Faneca will not improve the situation.

Having him for one year at an outrageous salary and not getting better in other places will not improve the situation either. We already know how bad this line is WITH Faneca. I don't think doubling his salary for this year is going to make the other guys play better.

[BillvinCowbert]

I'll take the first rounder.

Me too, sounds good. Now let's hear any realistic scenario where that will happen.

[BillvinCowbert]

Woodson, Rod

What in the hell does Rod Woodson have to do with anything? Let's franchise tag Clark Haggans, we'd hate to have another Chad Brown situation! Yeah, that's smart business.

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

Having him for one year at an outrageous salary and not getting better in other places will not improve the situation either. We already know how bad this line is WITH Faneca. I don't think doubling his salary for this year is going to make the other guys play better.

How does having him for another season or 2 not help. And why can't we get better replacing the other parts of the O-Line that suck through the draft? You could have put the best LG on the line and they still would have sucked. How does that make Faneca a worse talent? Between Mahan, Colon, and Simmons and Faneca I would still take Faneca.
I know it's not realistic long term salary cap wise, but to say to say no to Faneca because he is 31 doesn't make sense either.

[Sean]

Having him for one year at an outrageous salary and not getting better in other places will not improve the situation either. We already know how bad this line is WITH Faneca. I don't think doubling his salary for this year is going to make the other guys play better.

The way I see it is:

1) Pay Alan Faneca what he is going to command on the free agency market and forget about making other improvements along the offensive line, as it just won't be economically possible, or...

2) Let Faneca go and draft 2-3 offensive linemen in April, then have money left over to rebuild other positions. If we resign Faneca, it's going to make it much more difficult to squeeze names like Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, and Santonio Holmes under the salary cap in the coming years.

I could be wrong in my theories, but it seems like an easy answer to me.

[60 MINUTES]

I've said this a thousand times, Our problem is not money or cap its the money we are paying to the guys that are not worth it. Example: Take Mahan and Brent K off your team and sign ALAN F and a stud DL in the second round.

I don't know about yall but I would rather have Alan for 7 Million a year then BRENT k for 4.5 and Mahan for 3

Again we are throwing money out the door for people and not signing the guys we know can get it done. We need ALan back very bad, not at 10 million a year and the tag but 6 or 7 million a year is possible.

[SteelerFan448]

I've said this a thousand times, Our problem is not money or cap its the money we are paying to the guys that are not worth it. Example: Take Mahan and Brent K off your team and sign ALAN F and a stud DL in the second round.

I don't know about yall but I would rather have Alan for 7 Million a year then BRENT k for 4.5 and Mahan for 3

Again we are throwing money out the door for people and not signing the guys we know can get it done. We need ALan back very bad, not at 10 million a year and the tag but 6 or 7 million a year is possible.

I'd had similar thoughts, only thinking along the line with Simmons. I'd rather pay an older guy who has been a stud his entire career the money than a younger player who has had health issues and has been not much better than slightly above average at his peak. No matter what goes down, we should have 3, maybe even 4 open spots on the line going into next season.

[BillvinCowbert]

How does having him for another season or 2 not help.
It would help. Having Porter this past year would have helped our team. But there's a COST associated with that help. And, in this case, the cost is prohibitive. If you want him for "a year or two", you'll have to tag him once or twice, and that's a horrid fiscal move. In order to make it financially smart, it has to be long-term and that's not good because of the age and guaranteed money.

And why can't we get better replacing the other parts of the O-Line that suck through the draft? You could have put the best LG on the line and they still would have sucked. How does that make Faneca a worse talent? Between Mahan, Colon, and Simmons and Faneca I would still take Faneca.
You can build through the draft. At this point, it's better to just start building. Use the resources to invest in long-term assets that will help this team win it's next Super Bowl.

I know it's not realistic long term salary cap wise, but to say to say no to Faneca because he is 31 doesn't make sense either.
His age is a factor because it relates to future production. To sign a 31-year old to a 7-year deal and expect him to play it out would be crazy; 5 years is seriously pushing it. Three years could be a risk. It's a factor, a big one.

[Stlrs4Life]

If we piss away $10M on a 31-year old guard, we will end up paying for it for the next 5 seasons. If a long-term deal cannot be worked out, move on.

That is $10M that could be put towards signing Ben and it would keep his cap costs LOWER in the future, allowing the Steelers to be more viable with the cap. Spend it on one season with Faneca and you have cap issues later.

Pass.




Exactly. It is time to move on.

[OFTT]

There really is no sound argument to pay Faneca 10M for a franchise tag year.

There is a sound argument that 31 years old at the guard (or center) is not the same as 31 years old at what is termed "skill" positions - especially when considering past "chronic" injuries. There is nothing concrete that overwhelmingly suggests Faneca would not be able to play another 5 years at a high level.

It would take almost an act of God to believe that this line can be better without Faneca the next few years versus with.

Comparing keeping Porter with keeping Faneca borders on silliness ... especially considering there exists nothing like another "Harrison" in the wings on the OL.

Signing players such as Mahan and Simmons to the money they have will end up hurting the team much more than signing people the caliber of Faneca.

[OFTT]

Exactly. It is time to move on.

Regarding the franchise argument exclusively, right??? ... if so, I agree completely.

[Vader]

I can't believe this is a real debate. The OL was terrible with Faneca now some want to tag him because he was the best of the worst? The Steelers will NOT tag him. They only do that if they believe a contract is going to get done. Faneca has made it clear that he wants to get paid AND he wants a long term deal. The Steelers aren't going to pay him top dollar for 5-7 years.

IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN

[K from Cal]

The way I see it is:

1) Pay Alan Faneca what he is going to command on the free agency market and forget about making other improvements along the offensive line, as it just won't be economically possible, or...

2) Let Faneca go and draft 2-3 offensive linemen in April, then have money left over to rebuild other positions. If we resign Faneca, it's going to make it much more difficult to squeeze names like Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, and Santonio Holmes under the salary cap in the coming years.

I could be wrong in my theories, but it seems like an easy answer to me.

You do number 1 by transitioning him

Number 2 means you don't get anything back for him of consequence

[K from Cal]

I've said this a thousand times, Our problem is not money or cap its the money we are paying to the guys that are not worth it. Example: Take Mahan and Brent K off your team and sign ALAN F and a stud DL in the second round.

I don't know about yall but I would rather have Alan for 7 Million a year then BRENT k for 4.5 and Mahan for 3

Again we are throwing money out the door for people and not signing the guys we know can get it done. We need ALan back very bad, not at 10 million a year and the tag but 6 or 7 million a year is possible.


Some of this is related to our drafts from rounds 3 to 7 and the lack of productive players. We must improve in that area. This will also help special teams but thats for another thread.

[Sluzilla]

I can't believe this is a real debate. The OL was terrible with Faneca now some want to tag him because he was the best of the worst? The Steelers will NOT tag him. They only do that if they believe a contract is going to get done. Faneca has made it clear that he wants to get paid AND he wants a long term deal. The Steelers aren't going to pay him top dollar for 5-7 years.

IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN

this bears repeating...Faneca did NOT play well this year...in his CONTRACT year...THAT should tell everyone something...

[60 MINUTES]

this bears repeating...Faneca did NOT play well this year...in his CONTRACT year...THAT should tell everyone something...



You know I keep hearing this over and over again but it doesn't make any since what so ever. I think you could see he still is a stud and can get out on the corner and lead the way. The same thing is said over and over about not playing well. BULL SHIT

Football is a team sport especailly up front where you depend on guys beside you to get it done. How in the fuck could anyone do well with Mahan on one side and lets face it Marvell was playing hurt all year. How in the hell would you like to try and pick up the blitz with the help of Mahan.

Really guys having a center that sucked as bad as Mahan did killed us. Your Center has got to be the rock of the line and thats why we need ALAN to come back and play that spot for us over the next 5 years. It can be done dollar wise and should be done. Marvell is looking at a big pay cut in which you use to give to ALAN. The Move needs to be done and without it you may lose up front and could also lose your QB. Draft BEN a stud LT to protect him the next 10 years and make alan his man in the middle for the next 5 to 7 or you can lose football games. Which ever you perfer.

[The Iron is Steel On!]

Pay the man and let him retire a Steeler. Give him the Captain title back and he'll play better.

[TMC]

Look, we are not going to be any better if we fork out a shitload of cash to Alan Faneca than we were this season. But, if we save that cap space and use it to extend Roethlisberger, McFadden, Townsend, a left tackle (Marvel's contract is up), Colon, Parker, Clark/Smith (whomever is starting), Miller, Spaeth, and Holmes. All of those guys will see their deals end after the 2009 season. So, do you soak up this $10M in franchise cash on a 31-year old guard or do you put it towards your franchise QB, basically freeing up the $10M to be used in later years for other players.

Because, if you sign Ben for 7 years, 70M, he will not care if he gets a $10M roster bonus or a $10M signing bonus, but a roster bonus is done and off the cap while that signing bonus eats away at the cap for 5-7 seasons.

One way helps us in the future and one way fucks us up. And the fucked up way keeps Faneca here one more season.

Also, the transition tag is NOW guaranteed. They did that on the last CBA. You offer, he signs, you pay.

And, Dermotti Dawson was injury free until his final contract, less than 2 seasons later injuries had ended his career. He had just turned 30. Older players do not heal as quickly as the younger guys. Any injury for a 30+ player is serious.

[Super Heathen]

You can build through the draft. At this point, it's better to just start building. Use the resources to invest in long-term assets that will help this team win it's next Super Bowl.


.

This simple statement is too logical to refute. I'm not happy with the idea of losing Faneca...not one bit. That said, this line is a clusterfuck of epic proportions and it's time to clean it up through the draft.

Problem: Can Colbert be trusted to do this? Simmons was supposed to be a top tier guard but is pedestrian. Mahan? You have got to be kidding me. Colon is playing out of position and we don't know what he will do at G. Kemo is apparently a retard who needs 5-10 years to learn the system. Essex=puke. Smith, health issues and age. Starks...should have started on run block skills alone. He's gone.

Sooo, Smith at LT, ? at LG, Mahan at C, Simmons at RG and ? at RT. IS that the line next year???? 2 rooks(or a FA plug and a rook) with Smith, Mahan and Simmons.

Will Ben be signing his new contract from a Hospital bed?

[Wingrider]

YA THINK!?!?

Smith at RT - HUGE question Mark. LG - HUGE question mark. C - no question, it's a KNOWN MAGNITUDE OF SUCKITUDE NOT KNOWN SINCE BEFORE MIKE WEBSTER (i.e. most of us weren't born).





I would sign Faneca and say we were moving him to Center. 7 years $49M. $17M in Bonus.

CUT Mahan, after June 1, we can afford $800K this year and next to NOT have him play.

Sign an OT at #23, sign an OG at #55. Another OL in the 3rd or 4th. Real Open competition in Training camp for all OT/OG positions.

Smith/rookieOT at LT, Play rookie/Kemo at LG, Simmons at RG, rookie OT/Colon at RT.

That's a good Start.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

If memory is correct our center prior to Webster was Mansfield who was a good center. I don't think the franchise tag is a good option for Faneca at this time, if we could instead offer him a deal he would take that could offer him security for the rest of his carreer. We will still need to draft offensive linemen and hopefully we can trade up in the draft to take fewer picks that make the team rather than more picks that don't.

Along the center position we have had 3 good ones Mansfield, Webster, Dawson, one that was ok Hartings, and the worst of the bunch Mahan. Okoby sure looked better than him when he was in for Hartings when he was injured.

I would rather gamble with a few high placed draft picks than hope with a few more low placed draft picks. We could even trade away some of next years picks to get higher draft picks this year since the draft is deep in the positions we need to upgrade.

If our draft picks do not make the team we wasted them, camp bodies can come from the non drafted players, and we may find a few gems for special teams. One wedge buster and several serviceable linebackers and tight ends to send down to make tackles.

[360x]

The Steelers work the Cap like they invented it. I default to their judgement.

[Sluzilla]

You know I keep hearing this over and over again but it doesn't make any since what so ever. I think you could see he still is a stud and can get out on the corner and lead the way. The same thing is said over and over about not playing well. BULL SHIT

i'm assuming you didn't see all the plays i saw where he got blown up or just plain beat?...

Football is a team sport especailly up front where you depend on guys beside you to get it done. How in the fuck could anyone do well with Mahan on one side and lets face it Marvell was playing hurt all year. How in the hell would you like to try and pick up the blitz with the help of Mahan.

Really guys having a center that sucked as bad as Mahan did killed us. Your Center has got to be the rock of the line and thats why we need ALAN to come back and play that spot for us over the next 5 years. It can be done dollar wise and should be done. Marvell is looking at a big pay cut in which you use to give to ALAN. The Move needs to be done and without it you may lose up front and could also lose your QB. Draft BEN a stud LT to protect him the next 10 years and make alan his man in the middle for the next 5 to 7 or you can lose football games. Which ever you perfer.

i guess going by your excuses...the same can be said for Simmons then...he played badly because he had Mahan on one side and Colon on the other...in fact it probably means Simmons played BETTER than Faneca because Smith is much better than Colon...and Simmons only played marginally worse than Faneca last year...

Faneca WAS a monster...he is no longer one...you don't pay for what someone once was...you pay for what they still can be...

[60 MINUTES]

i'm assuming you didn't see all the plays i saw where he got blown up or just plain beat?...



i guess going by your excuses...the same can be said for Simmons then...he played badly because he had Mahan on one side and Colon on the other...in fact it probably means Simmons played BETTER than Faneca because Smith is much better than Colon...and Simmons only played marginally worse than Faneca last year...

Faneca WAS a monster...he is no longer one...you don't pay for what someone once was...you pay for what they still can be...



I saw Alan get blown up some to but I also saw a guy that can get it done at a high level. I believe he can play Center for us at a probowl level for the next 5 years. IF and I know its a big if, but IF he can do that then he is worth 7 million a year. I would rather take a chance on him being worth 5 more years then another Simmons in the first round or my GOD what if we drafted another Stephens. Look I'm not saying its the best move in the world to give a 31 year old 7 mil a seson for 5 yo 7 years, I'm more so saying look at the money we have going everywhere else.

I will say this one more time and I swear its the last time but no one here can tell me that they would rather have Simmons and Mahan on this team over Alan. Its who we are paying guys. Simmons and Mahan are taking up as much money cap wise that ALAN would. I would rather have ALan, A Chris K and a draft Pick over Mahan and Simmons.

Even if you leave Simmons look at the 4.5 mil your paying Brent K.

Take Brent off this team and Mahan and there is your 7 mil a year for ALAN. There is no way in hell anyone would rather have Brent K and Mahan over Alan.

At least not anyone other then the Kevin C.

We have got to pay the correct players and quit giving out big money to players that would never get it in the open market. I really can't think of anyone that would give Brent K 4.5 mil a year.

Bottom line you play to win every year not to cont. to rebuild. Should ALan get tagged HELL NO! but I think we can work out a deal for 6 to 7 million with alot up front. With the contracts or Marvell Smith and James F and IMO Brent K going away soon we should have the money.

Final point is simple, 7 Mill a year is not the problem, the problem is will ALAN be around long enough to be worth it. I really think he gives us 5 more Probowl type years. If he doesn't then we are fucked but if he does then the 7 mill a year is not bad especailly 3 or 4 years from now. Shit all gurards will be making 7 mill a year 3 or 4 years from now.

[Blitzburghv5]

If Faneca isnt on this roster whether at Center or Guard next season, it becomes immensely imperative that we score HUGE in this upcoming draft in the area of Offensive linemen. The guys we bring in will HAVE to be top quality or else we'll see the franchise QB in the Duce Staley platinum line of sweatsuits for a significant period of time. Morale will likely be at an all-time low around Latrobe come July but these players can adapt. If we dont address glaring needs on this Oline via draft, then we must look at players via Free Agencey route. I hope they have a few guys in mind.

If we falter in drafting a quality (and immediate) replacement for Big Red and other areas on this line, it will be the first domino falling to affect other areas. Poor line play could result in injuries, will definitely result in no-drive sustainability, which then complicates matters for our defensive unit (fatigue which leads to more mistakes and injuries) and exposes an already weak Special teams unit.

We HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN in place or next year will end a lot sooner (and a lot worse) than this year ended. Not sayin we "gotta" sign Red........just saying we had better do this right. I believe in miracles. I have faith something'll happen. *crosses fingers

[Sluzilla]

I saw Alan get blown up some to but I also saw a guy that can get it done at a high level. I believe he can play Center for us at a probowl level for the next 5 years. IF and I know its a big if, but IF he can do that then he is worth 7 million a year. I would rather take a chance on him being worth 5 more years then another Simmons in the first round or my GOD what if we drafted another Stephens. Look I'm not saying its the best move in the world to give a 31 year old 7 mil a seson for 5 yo 7 years, I'm more so saying look at the money we have going everywhere else.

so seriously...you'd pay Faneca more than we paid Hartings?...almost twice as much?...Hartings got a contract of $4MM a year...and WAS a pro-bowl center...

I will say this one more time and I swear its the last time but no one here can tell me that they would rather have Simmons and Mahan on this team over Alan. Its who we are paying guys. Simmons and Mahan are taking up as much money cap wise that ALAN would. I would rather have ALan, A Chris K and a draft Pick over Mahan and Simmons.

Even if you leave Simmons look at the 4.5 mil your paying Brent K.

Take Brent off this team and Mahan and there is your 7 mil a year for ALAN. There is no way in hell anyone would rather have Brent K and Mahan over Alan.

At least not anyone other then the Kevin C.

We have got to pay the correct players and quit giving out big money to players that would never get it in the open market. I really can't think of anyone that would give Brent K 4.5 mil a year.

Bottom line you play to win every year not to cont. to rebuild. Should ALan get tagged HELL NO! but I think we can work out a deal for 6 to 7 million with alot up front. With the contracts or Marvell Smith and James F and IMO Brent K going away soon we should have the money.

Final point is simple, 7 Mill a year is not the problem, the problem is will ALAN be around long enough to be worth it. I really think he gives us 5 more Probowl type years. If he doesn't then we are fucked but if he does then the 7 mill a year is not bad especailly 3 or 4 years from now. Shit all gurards will be making 7 mill a year 3 or 4 years from now.

Mahan can't be cut until after June 1st without LOSING money on the cap...(if i'm looking at the figures correctly)...and you'd cut Keisel?...when we are already bone thin at DE?...so cut two starters to keep one...in any of your scenarios...

you need to stay on one position though...are you going to pay him $7MM a year as a LG...which is less than he wants...or $7MM a year as a C...which is almost twice what Hartings got?...

[Sluzilla]

actually...if we cut Mahan and Keisel before June 1st...we save...

Mahan - ($225,000.00)
Keisel - $2,427,500.00

Total - $2,202,500.00 toward in cap savings...

[Sean]

Quit scaring Buster like that!

Brett Keisel ain't going anywhere.

[Hines57]

Pay Faneca, draft a LT in the first round of the draft and next year you let Marvel walk UFA and have a replacement ready to go for Marvel on the cheap. I would also address the center position. Its not that difficult.

[K from Cal]

actually...if we cut Mahan and Keisel before June 1st...we save...

Mahan - ($225,000.00)
Keisel - $2,427,500.00

Total - $2,202,500.00 toward in cap savings...

I don't get the love affair with wanting to cut Mahan. he's a high quality back up and even though he costs us some cash, he'll be worth it as the season moves along. He's also a good teammate. We need him.

[Sluzilla]

I don't get the love affair with wanting to cut Mahan. he's a high quality back up and even though he costs us some cash, he'll be worth it as the season moves along. He's also a good teammate. We need him.

i'm not the one wanting to cut him...in fact it makes no sense to cut him IMO...i'd give him another chance at C in training camp for sure...if not there at G...was just showing one reason WHY it doesn't make sense to cut him to 60 MINUTES...

[Munnin]

Look, we are not going to be any better if we fork out a load of cash to Alan Faneca than we were this season. But, if we save that cap space and use it to extend Roethlisberger, McFadden, Townsend, a left tackle (Marvel's contract is up), Colon, Parker, Clark/Smith (whomever is starting), Miller, Spaeth, and Holmes. All of those guys will see their deals end after the 2009 season. So, do you soak up this $10M in franchise cash on a 31-year old guard or do you put it towards your franchise QB, basically freeing up the $10M to be used in later years for other players.

I see what your saying but if we don’t keep him, and we keep Marvel; then we are keeping a tackle in a year when the OTs are deep in the draft and drafting a guard in a year that you have said has no guards that are day one picks (or did you say first round?).

Are you thinking are line would be this:
Smith Colon Mahan Simmons New OT
Essex New OG Stapleton Kemoeatu Cappizzi

Mind you my goat this year was not Mahan but Simmons and I would rather move Colon over to replace him.

Because, if you sign Ben for 7 years, 70M, he will not care if he gets a $10M roster bonus or a $10M signing bonus, but a roster bonus is done and off the cap while that signing bonus eats away at the cap for 5-7 seasons.

Wow, that is a huge difference, which would help use for many years to come.

Also, the transition tag is NOW guaranteed. They did that on the last CBA. You offer, he signs, you pay.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[topseed]

I believe he can play Center for us at a probowl level for the next 5 years.

How the hell did you come up with that theory? Faneca's play at his natural position is already beginning to slip, and you expect him to be in the Probowl at center in 2013? Right.



Bottom line you play to win every year not to cont. to rebuild. Should ALan get tagged HELL NO! but I think we can work out a deal for 6 to 7 million with alot up front. With the contracts or Marvell Smith and James F and IMO Brent K going away soon we should have the money.

Final point is simple, 7 Mill a year is not the problem, the problem is will ALAN be around long enough to be worth it. I really think he gives us 5 more Probowl type years. If he doesn't then we are fucked but if he does then the 7 mill a year is not bad especailly 3 or 4 years from now. Shit all gurards will be making 7 mill a year 3 or 4 years from now.

There is no way Faneca is going to sign any long-term deal for six or seven million per year, let alone one with Pittsburgh. Again, what gives you the idea the Steelers could sign the guy for 2-3 million dollars less than the top five average after all the acrimony he's shown for the team?


I wouldn't mind franchising Faneca for one year, because that's all I think he's got left as a top 10 NFL guard. However, if it does indeed hinder the cap situation as far as getting Ben signed, forget it.

[hubie]

Let Faneca go, he's not that DAMN good anyway. Take the money and find someone to replace him. There are others out there that are BETTER than Faneca.

[K from Cal]

There are others out there that are BETTER than Faneca.

Just curious who your top 5 are.

[60 MINUTES]

so seriously...you'd pay Faneca more than we paid Hartings?...almost twice as much?...Hartings got a contract of $4MM a year...and WAS a pro-bowl center...



Mahan can't be cut until after June 1st without LOSING money on the cap...(if i'm looking at the figures correctly)...and you'd cut Keisel?...when we are already bone thin at DE?...so cut two starters to keep one...in any of your scenarios...

you need to stay on one position though...are you going to pay him $7MM a year as a LG...which is less than he wants...or $7MM a year as a C...which is almost twice what Hartings got?...



I'm not saying that we should cut Mahan now as much as I'm saying it was a shit move to begin with. My main point is simple we have paid a lot of money out to people that should have never got it. Should we cut Mahan now or Brett now probably not, but paying brett and mahan a total of 7 mil against the cap is pretty fucking stupid.

Again I would rather have Alan at the center spot for the next 5 years at 7 mil per then i would see mahan and simmons on the line. Or Mahan and Brett K. Its too late now I guess but we just need to spend money the correct way.

Another thing that I think makes this thing different then some of the others is simple. I think we get a high level of play from ALAN. Porter had to walk, I agree no where near worth the money for two reasons, was not worth it and would not have gave you maybe 2 decent years to begin with. Same goes for alot of guys around the league, but 1 out of 10 guys like the Rod Woodsons, and Jerry Rice do play well from 30 to 36.

Here is my main point if AlAN was 26 everyone would say find a way to get this done. I understand he is not 26 but I really believe he can play at a high level for 5 more years. IF he does this then the 7 mill a year does not hurt you at all. Shit in the 5th year of that contract 7 mil a year will no longer even be top 10 money for linemen.


The Steelers have had me Brain washed for years to and I always lean towards them but not this time. Again most of the time we are correct let those guys walk, Everyone here know Porter was done and would not play good for more years. But the difference to me is I think ALAN can play very solid for the next 5 years. Again the Money is not the issue we can find a way to work the cap, we have guys like James F that is getting ready to look at a big pay cut, in the next 3 years look for Big Hampton to hit that walk or pay cut list. NT just don't last that long, Marvell Smith is next for the 6 mi down to 1 mil pay cut. There are guys on the list that will free up all the money we need, so money is not the issue, its will you get any of the years for your money. Most of the time I say no but with ALAN I just think he plays the contract out.

[Blitzburghv5]

Just curious who your top 5 are.

How long are you willin to wait for his response ?

[TMC]

I see what your saying but if we don’t keep him, and we keep Marvel; then we are keeping a tackle in a year when the OTs are deep in the draft and drafting a guard in a year that you have said has no guards that are day one picks (or did you say first round?).

Are you thinking are line would be this:
Smith Colon Mahan Simmons New OT
Essex New OG Stapleton Kemoeatu Cappizzi

Mind you my goat this year was not Mahan but Simmons and I would rather move Colon over to replace him.

Wow, that is a huge difference, which would help use for many years to come.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

I want to draft a tackle in this draft, it is deep in tackles.....but we are thinner at tackle than we are at guard. Starks is hitting free agency and there are rumors that Marvel is considering retirement because of his injury. To add to that, Essex is a restricted free agent. So, we have Colon signed. If we draft a tackle, even 2, we can move Colon to LG. If he can play RT all season, even poorly, he has to be decent enough to play guard. You do not move bad players from guard to tackle......you move them from tackle to guard.

You can bet that Alan Faneca wants a deal in the 7 year, 49M range. I would guess that he will want $15-$20M guaranteed. IMO, that is WAY too steep for a 31-year old player....ANY player.

If the Steelers wait with Ben until they have made their re-signings and dealt with the draft picks, then take the 10-12M they have left and work with Ben. They could sign Ben to an EXTENSION adding 7 years, $84M with a signing bonus of $7M,
2008-$1MSB+$3M salary+$10M roster bonus=$14M cap hit
2009-$1MSB+$5M salary=$6M cap hit
2010-$1MSB+$5M salary=$6M cap hit
2011-$1MSB+$8M salary=$9M cap hit
2012-$1MSB+$8M salary=$9M cap hit
2013-$1MSB+$9M salary=$10M cap hit
2014-$1MSB+$9M salary=$10M cap hit
2015-$10M salary/cap hit
2016-$10M salary/cap hit

Now, that $10M roster bonus at the front pulls roughly $1.5M off the salary cap every year for the next 6 seasons. The thing is, once you start using the space like this, it creates more space in the future and you can continue to do this.......opening more space. It is the way Minnesota does business....and they always have cap space.

But, you franchise Faneca, that space is gone.

And, the transition tag is now guaranteed, which means you transition a player, he signs the tender, you are stuck with him the remainder of the season. He can literally show his ass and you still have to pay him. He could shit on the coaches desk and get paid. And, the instant he signs it, that space is gone from your salary cap.


With all that said, IF we could not re-sign Starks, who would be my first choice because of age and cost, and fail to sign Faneca, which IMO is almost a concrete lock, then I would draft an offensive tackle in the first. If one of the top tackles fell to my pick in the 2nd, then I take him as well. The best OG should go near the end of the 2nd, but there will be good tackles through the 3rd. If I can get 2 OTs, then I kick Colon to LG and may potentially draft a guy like Adam Kraus in the 4th or Drew Miller in the 5th. This draft is one where we should spend 2 picks in the first four rounds on linemen and potentially go back late (if someone falls) or bring in any undrafted we think can help. It is unusually deep at almost every position, but does not have that top stud power like other drafts (except at tackle).

IMO, we could end up with a line looking like:
OT-Jeff Otah, Chris Williams, Marvel Smith, Trai Essex
OG-Willie Colon, Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoeatu
C-Sean Mahan, Darnell Stapleton, Drew Miller.

That gives us 3 guys for the future on the line with potential bookends. Colon is inside, which may suit him better. Stapleton and Miller are two young guys and I believe both were on the Rimington lists for centers as seniors. Either could turn out.

[60 MINUTES]

I want to draft a tackle in this draft, it is deep in tackles.....but we are thinner at tackle than we are at guard. Starks is hitting free agency and there are rumors that Marvel is considering retirement because of his injury. To add to that, Essex is a restricted free agent. So, we have Colon signed. If we draft a tackle, even 2, we can move Colon to LG. If he can play RT all season, even poorly, he has to be decent enough to play guard. You do not move bad players from guard to tackle......you move them from tackle to guard.

You can bet that Alan Faneca wants a deal in the 7 year, 49M range. I would guess that he will want $15-$20M guaranteed. IMO, that is WAY too steep for a 31-year old player....ANY player.

If the Steelers wait with Ben until they have made their re-signings and dealt with the draft picks, then take the 10-12M they have left and work with Ben. They could sign Ben to an EXTENSION adding 7 years, $84M with a signing bonus of $7M,
2008-$1MSB+$3M salary+$10M roster bonus=$14M cap hit
2009-$1MSB+$5M salary=$6M cap hit
2010-$1MSB+$5M salary=$6M cap hit
2011-$1MSB+$8M salary=$9M cap hit
2012-$1MSB+$8M salary=$9M cap hit
2013-$1MSB+$9M salary=$10M cap hit
2014-$1MSB+$9M salary=$10M cap hit
2015-$10M salary/cap hit
2016-$10M salary/cap hit

Now, that $10M roster bonus at the front pulls roughly $1.5M off the salary cap every year for the next 6 seasons. The thing is, once you start using the space like this, it creates more space in the future and you can continue to do this.......opening more space. It is the way Minnesota does business....and they always have cap space.

But, you franchise Faneca, that space is gone.

And, the transition tag is now guaranteed, which means you transition a player, he signs the tender, you are stuck with him the remainder of the season. He can literally show his ass and you still have to pay him. He could shit on the coaches desk and get paid. And, the instant he signs it, that space is gone from your salary cap.


With all that said, IF we could not re-sign Starks, who would be my first choice because of age and cost, and fail to sign Faneca, which IMO is almost a concrete lock, then I would draft an offensive tackle in the first. If one of the top tackles fell to my pick in the 2nd, then I take him as well. The best OG should go near the end of the 2nd, but there will be good tackles through the 3rd. If I can get 2 OTs, then I kick Colon to LG and may potentially draft a guy like Adam Kraus in the 4th or Drew Miller in the 5th. This draft is one where we should spend 2 picks in the first four rounds on linemen and potentially go back late (if someone falls) or bring in any undrafted we think can help. It is unusually deep at almost every position, but does not have that top stud power like other drafts (except at tackle).

IMO, we could end up with a line looking like:
OT-Jeff Otah, Chris Williams, Marvel Smith, Trai Essex
OG-Willie Colon, Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoeatu
C-Sean Mahan, Darnell Stapleton, Drew Miller.

That gives us 3 guys for the future on the line with potential bookends. Colon is inside, which may suit him better. Stapleton and Miller are two young guys and I believe both were on the Rimington lists for centers as seniors. Either could turn out.


Again TMC your Math skills are wonderful and cannot be touched, your college scouting is very good as well. Always check your post to see what is going on in those two Departments, however when it comes to who should play and in what Position you are not where I and where I hope the Steelers want to be.

Mahan at CENTER is out of the question. Smith if he comes back will be your Starting Tackle, IMO should be on the right side.

Look I gave you a Job a couple of weeks ago and you still haven't done it.

Try to figure out how we can sign ALAN to the 7 year deal. Thats all I need from you. No Tag or any of that bull shit, just get him signed for 7 years at around 49 mil

put him at Center move colon to LG smith to RT draft LT first round and you have the best line in football and a superbowl championship next year, along with a QB that can stay off his ass for a change.

So don't worry about the team and what we are doing, just find a way to get ALAN in here. I know you can move some guys money and shit, so go get it done.

Thanks for your help.

[TMC]

Again TMC your Math skills are wonderful and cannot be touched, your college scouting is very good as well. Always check your post to see what is going on in those two Departments, however when it comes to who should play and in what Position you are not where I and where I hope the Steelers want to be.

Mahan at CENTER is out of the question. Smith if he comes back will be your Starting Tackle, IMO should be on the right side.

Look I gave you a Job a couple of weeks ago and you still haven't done it.

Try to figure out how we can sign ALAN to the 7 year deal. Thats all I need from you. No Tag or any of that bull shit, just get him signed for 7 years at around 49 mil

put him at Center move colon to LG smith to RT draft LT first round and you have the best line in football and a superbowl championship next year, along with a QB that can stay off his ass for a change.

So don't worry about the team and what we are doing, just find a way to get ALAN in here. I know you can move some guys money and shit, so go get it done.

Thanks for your help.

I do not want to figure out how to get Alan Faneca in here for $7M a season. I do not want any part of a 31-year old guard at a cost of $7M per season. We have the same problem on our defense that we have on our offensive line, certain players are getting OLDER and it is time to move forward, not look back. Everyone raises hell when I state I would sign Haggans at a smaller contract to backup Harrison and Woodley. IMO, the only difference between Haggans re-signing and Faneca re-signing is we have ALREADY replaced Haggans.

I really do not feel that Faneca is one of the top 5 guards in this league anymore. Hell, he may not even be Top 10. I think he made the Pro Bowl because he is Alan Faneca......if another player with another name played the way he did, he would not be boarding the plane to Hawaii. The 6 Pro Bowl tackles were Faneca, Logan Mankins, Chris Dielman, Leonard Davis, Steve Hutchinson, and Shawn Andrews. But Faneca, who used to be a wall, seems to struggle more against bullrushers and gets tossed aside some. That NEVER used to happen and IMO, is a signal of things to come.

The guards I feel are better and will be better over the next 7 years:
Shawn Andrews, Philly
Logan Mankins, New England
Chris Dielman, San Deigo
Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota (although he will start to fade soon as well)
Jason Brown, Ravens (he may not be elite now, but he is coming fast)
Derrick Dockery, Redskins (everyone laughed when they signed him, he turned in an excellent season)
Ben Grubbs, Ravens (if they retain Brown, they will have the best OG tandem in the league in 2 years)
Ryan Lilja, Colts (plays in a zone blocking scheme, but plays at a high level)
Jamar Nesbit, Saints (unheralded, but a great player)
Both of the Jacksonville Jags guards should get recognition.
Then there are young guys playing well like Chris Snee, Jason Spitz, and Andrew Whitworth.

While it can be argued that these guys are not better than Faneca, he is not some scrub, the guys listed are playing at a high level and getting better, where Faneca is fading.

You want to spend money on free agents that actually earn all 7 years, wait until the tender offers for restricted guys come out.......The Ravens have Jason Brown to tender. He played center in college. They have Grubbs (who started) and Chris Chester (started 8 games over the last 2 seasons). If they tender him wrong, he is a guy I get after. I even poison pill the contract with a clause that makes him the highest paid lineman IF he plays 5 games or more in Maryland.

Lilja is another guy I chase before Faneca. He is only 26 and actually has a chance to see the end of a 7-year deal. Another guy is Jacob Bell of Tennessee. Bell is also 26 and has started since his rookie season. Another up and comer who could play the full length of the deal.....and I do not think ANY of those 3 players would cost as much as Faneca, who everyone admits has slipped some in his play.

Do you think if he is slipping he is slipping because he had a down year or because age is starting to take its toll?

I am willing to bet he will not be better in 2009.

And, if things go the way I truly would like them to go, I do not have Marvel Smith OR Alan Faneca on this team next season. Honestly, I would love to steal Jason Brown from the Ravens and I would gladly give up my 4th round pick if that is the tender. If not, I make a run at Jacob Bell. I hold onto Smith until after the draft, but in the draft I take the best OT in the first.....because I think that if guys being listed as late 1st (meaning Otah, Baker, Cherilus, Williams) were in another draft, they would go Top 15. So, I get my new LT this year. I sign an OG if I can. In the 2nd, if one of those 4 fall, I draft his ass too. Then, if I did not get an OG in free agency, I go back to the well in the 4th and get a guard. I think there are a handful of guards that go from the end of the 2nd through the 4th and who is best depends on who you like.

Next season, my line would look like this:
LT-Jeff Otah or Chris Williams or Sam Baker or Gosder Cherilus
LG-Simmons or Brown or Bell or Colon or a rookie
C-Stapleton or Mahan or maybe even Colon
G-Simmons or Brown or Bell or Colon or a rookie
RT-a rookie or Smith or Colon or maybe even Starks.

This line did not get fucked up in one offseason, it will not return to the top of the NFL in one either.

[Blitzburghv5]

Im sorta favoring Lilja from Indy. I havent seen much of the two guys in Baltimore but the Ravens play a similar style of physical, smashmouth that we like in Pittsburgh. If I had my choice it would be Lilja. No way will we sign two lineman in FA. Not this year...........i just dont see it.

[60 MINUTES]

I do not want to figure out how to get Alan Faneca in here for $7M a season. I do not want any part of a 31-year old guard at a cost of $7M per season. We have the same problem on our defense that we have on our offensive line, certain players are getting OLDER and it is time to move forward, not look back. Everyone raises hell when I state I would sign Haggans at a smaller contract to backup Harrison and Woodley. IMO, the only difference between Haggans re-signing and Faneca re-signing is we have ALREADY replaced Haggans.

I really do not feel that Faneca is one of the top 5 guards in this league anymore. Hell, he may not even be Top 10. I think he made the Pro Bowl because he is Alan Faneca......if another player with another name played the way he did, he would not be boarding the plane to Hawaii. The 6 Pro Bowl tackles were Faneca, Logan Mankins, Chris Dielman, Leonard Davis, Steve Hutchinson, and Shawn Andrews. But Faneca, who used to be a wall, seems to struggle more against bullrushers and gets tossed aside some. That NEVER used to happen and IMO, is a signal of things to come.

The guards I feel are better and will be better over the next 7 years:
Shawn Andrews, Philly
Logan Mankins, New England
Chris Dielman, San Deigo
Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota (although he will start to fade soon as well)
Jason Brown, Ravens (he may not be elite now, but he is coming fast)
Derrick Dockery, Redskins (everyone laughed when they signed him, he turned in an excellent season)
Ben Grubbs, Ravens (if they retain Brown, they will have the best OG tandem in the league in 2 years)
Ryan Lilja, Colts (plays in a zone blocking scheme, but plays at a high level)
Jamar Nesbit, Saints (unheralded, but a great player)
Both of the Jacksonville Jags guards should get recognition.
Then there are young guys playing well like Chris Snee, Jason Spitz, and Andrew Whitworth.

While it can be argued that these guys are not better than Faneca, he is not some scrub, the guys listed are playing at a high level and getting better, where Faneca is fading.

You want to spend money on free agents that actually earn all 7 years, wait until the tender offers for restricted guys come out.......The Ravens have Jason Brown to tender. He played center in college. They have Grubbs (who started) and Chris Chester (started 8 games over the last 2 seasons). If they tender him wrong, he is a guy I get after. I even poison pill the contract with a clause that makes him the highest paid lineman IF he plays 5 games or more in Maryland.

Lilja is another guy I chase before Faneca. He is only 26 and actually has a chance to see the end of a 7-year deal. Another guy is Jacob Bell of Tennessee. Bell is also 26 and has started since his rookie season. Another up and comer who could play the full length of the deal.....and I do not think ANY of those 3 players would cost as much as Faneca, who everyone admits has slipped some in his play.

Do you think if he is slipping he is slipping because he had a down year or because age is starting to take its toll?

I am willing to bet he will not be better in 2009.

And, if things go the way I truly would like them to go, I do not have Marvel Smith OR Alan Faneca on this team next season. Honestly, I would love to steal Jason Brown from the Ravens and I would gladly give up my 4th round pick if that is the tender. If not, I make a run at Jacob Bell. I hold onto Smith until after the draft, but in the draft I take the best OT in the first.....because I think that if guys being listed as late 1st (meaning Otah, Baker, Cherilus, Williams) were in another draft, they would go Top 15. So, I get my new LT this year. I sign an OG if I can. In the 2nd, if one of those 4 fall, I draft his ass too. Then, if I did not get an OG in free agency, I go back to the well in the 4th and get a guard. I think there are a handful of guards that go from the end of the 2nd through the 4th and who is best depends on who you like.

Next season, my line would look like this:
LT-Jeff Otah or Chris Williams or Sam Baker or Gosder Cherilus
LG-Simmons or Brown or Bell or Colon or a rookie
C-Stapleton or Mahan or maybe even Colon
G-Simmons or Brown or Bell or Colon or a rookie
RT-a rookie or Smith or Colon or maybe even Starks.

This line did not get fucked up in one offseason, it will not return to the top of the NFL in one either.



Okay now you and I have finally got somewhere. I actually think ALAN can still play and is still top 5 material. I Belive he can play 5 more years at that level. You do not. You could be correct. Why do I see him as a stud CENTER for the next 5 years, I don't know, I just think he would be.

Now as far as what we have been back n forth about the money. If the steelers would go after a 26 year old guy, one that you have brought up and that guy can be top 5 in the league the next 5 years then I'm fine without ALAN. I just don't want to see the steelers patch this shit. If they think ALAN will not give them 5 solid years, then fine but go get someone else a VET that can be top 5 in the league for the next 5 years.

Look I usually agree with everyone else. Move on and let someone else waste the money. As much as I love some of these guys they are not worth it because they never play close to the end of the contract. Again I guess I'm just fucking stupid but I really think ALAN at CENTER would play at a top 5 level for the next 5 years.

I agree to disagree with you because you don't think he can play that level now let alone 5 years from now, but IF now look what I'm saying IF ALAN 31 years old or not could play at a probowl level for the next 5 years, would you give him 6.5 a year to do that? No injury, no running off the mouth, but just flat out team leader up front type play for 5 years, would you think he would worth the money then?

My answer is yes, the question is simple, can the guy play at that level? I'm not stupid I know its very rare but for some reason I just think he could do it. Thats why I want him back so bad. Your way is playing it better, Its more safe because if he starts getting hurt or washed up then we would be fucked. I know that your way is more safe, but sometimes you have to play your gut feeling and I just think ALAN would be the man, the team leader up front. The heart and soul of the line and I think he would do it at a high level for 5 years. So will I admit your way and the way the steelers have done it in the past makes since? sure, but are there exceptions? Sure. I think ALAN would be one of them.

[TMC]

But, you take more risks with Faneca. First, you risk that he can continue to play for 5 seasons at that level. If you move him to center, you risk a position change, which is what we did with Hartings AND Mahan. One worked, one did not. Sometimes they work.....many times, they do not. Finally, you risk huge amounts of cap space, space we do not have.

Would Faneca sign for $6.5M a season? I doubt it. The talk was the Steelers signed Simmons after Faneca and them could not even get close on money. Well, they paid Simmons $23.1M over 4 years, or just under $6M a season. I am sure they offered Faneca an extension in the $6-7M range...but probably 4 years instead of 7, which means it was $28M instead of $49M. It also means the signing bonus was under $10M, instead of the $18M being thrown around for other guards.

Faneca, 31, blasted the organization for not making what he considered a serious offer last May and said this season would be his last in a Steelers uniform.

I am sure that the Steelers offered Faneca what they paid Simmons, which is right at $6M a season. Faneca stated they did not even make a serious offer. $6M a season was not serious enough........let him walk.

[stevew]

I agree that if we can use the cap space for an upgrade, letting Marvel go and saving in the >4 million range is probably a good move. With >4M in year one space, you can easily make a move to get a FA or two. Unless Marvel is willing to do a 4 year deal in the 18-20m range that saves us 2008 cap room, I think you strongly explore other options. Something like 6m bonus, salaries of 1m, 2m, 4m, 5m(probably will get cut). Hell, I don't see that happening though. I don't think you can June 1st the guy though, as if you really aren't planning on him coming back, you should let him walk and have a fair shot at getting a new deal.