515 yds of total offense, double the time of possession, and we still lose??? [Archive]

va_steelman

11-23-2009, 03:09 AM

Regardless of the ST gaffe,Ben's INT in the redzone, and Arians sweep call in OT, this loss goes on the defense IMO. I know they kept KC out of the endzone after that long INT return and played fairly well overall, they still gave up big plays when they needed stops. And we're not talking about going up against the likes of Warner/Fitzgerald/Bouldin, Manning/Wayne/Clark or Brady/Moss/Welker, but rather Cassel/Chambers/Pope. KC is 30th in the league in total offense. Assuming they get in the playoffs, there's no way they get very far playing like that.

cutty

11-23-2009, 03:12 AM

Oakland Raiders game a couple years ago.

Steelersrule

11-23-2009, 03:15 AM

moetec

11-23-2009, 03:15 AM

Steel G

11-23-2009, 03:26 AM

I can't blame the D when every week the Steelers are spotting the other team multiple points for simply doing nothing. That's not on the defense at all. You can't shut everybody out all the time. Step up, make some special teams tackles and quit making stupid turnovers. The other teams aren't making the same number of stupid mistakes against the Steelers, so what's the Steelers excuse? Mental errors...and the penalties the last two weeks, just awful.

JenZwain

11-23-2009, 03:36 AM

Turnovers will kill a team!

Steel 83

11-23-2009, 04:02 AM

We gave up 95 and 80 yard TD drives when the game was on the line in the 4th qtr and OT, our defense has been awful all year in clutch situations.

va_steelman

11-23-2009, 04:35 AM

We gave up 95 and 80 yard TD drives when the game was on the line in the 4th qtr and OT, our defense has been awful all year in clutch situations.
And that's my thing - giving up 2 long drives late in the game against one of the worst offenses in the NFL. If it was against Indy or NE, I could accept it a lot easier than against a crappy-ass team like KC.

Steelerman

11-23-2009, 07:48 AM

And that's my thing - giving up 2 long drives late in the game against one of the worst offenses in the NFL. If it was against Indy or NE, I could accept it a lot easier than against a crappy-ass team like KC.

...and when you add in the fact that they were without their best WR and recently cut their star RB...well, then it's a disgrace. Troy Polamalu or not.....this defense should not be giving up 90+ yard drives to the goddamn Chiefs, of all teams.

Coryea

11-23-2009, 12:26 PM

some of the play calling was to blame like in ot we had the ball in the kickers range then on 3rd and 2 you sweep. run it up the middle and get 2 yeards then kick the filed goal. i knew we were going to lose this game. we have been sucking for awile. we never blow out the sorry teams. we lose to sorry teams and beat the good teams. i dont know what to say... maybe its the play calling and also BB could have ran the ball closer to the endzone on that pick. he did not have to throw it. i have no idea whats in his head half the time. he had a clear run with one blocker.

im glad the OL is doing good and blocking him well. they were rushing like 8 and still not sacking him like they should. you can only block so many before they get loose.
You serious? Did you watch the game? Ben saved the Olines ass several times yesterday. On the INT, he looked right, the guys was covered turned left to throw and was hit, and you're putting that on him? He made one read, then was hit. Colon played his worst game of the season yesterday. Miller had a ball go right through his hands for a pick in KC territory, Wallace catches a long pass, then gets it stripped, and Arians shit play calling. Ben is the last one to blame. The defense, the well rested defense sucked ass in the second half, but this just goes to show this is what happens when you give a NFL QB time to throw, we were happy to just 4 guys most of the second half.

Spike

11-23-2009, 12:38 PM

Without Troy, this is just not a playoff team. The defense sucks late in games, they have all year.

4 games with Troy hurt - 4 losses. There's your stat.

SteelerScott

11-23-2009, 01:05 PM

That happens to Pass-Happy-Offenses often.

TMC

11-23-2009, 01:29 PM

Without Troy, this is just not a playoff team. The defense sucks late in games, they have all year.

4 games with Troy hurt - 4 losses. There's your stat.

You do not pay a guy $8M a year and not expect a huge dropoff when he is not in the game. The defense is not the same without HairPolamalu.

TMC

11-23-2009, 01:29 PM

That happens to Pass-Happy-Offenses often.

When passing teams struggle, bad things happen. They seem to lead to points much faster than when running teams struggle.

ronburgundy

11-23-2009, 01:47 PM

When your extended TOP often ends in punts or field goals and the opponent's TOP is fairly minimal because they're taking your kickoffs, punts, and interceptions to the house, that's how you lose.

Spike

11-23-2009, 01:55 PM

bigtwnvin

11-23-2009, 02:12 PM

Something else to think on, Ben dances around, either makes a play or gets sacked. Charlie Batch comes in (and like Leftwich last year) starts making plays, gets rid of the ball quickly, but can't overcome stupid play calling. Maybe the reason Ben has to iomprovide, is becuase of Arians.

This is nothing new. Arians sends in a play and Ben has this blank look on his face like: "WTF?" And half the time he's looking around for people that are out of position so clearly the receivers and lineman already know this is not going to work.

Spike

11-23-2009, 02:19 PM

If you ask me - Tomlin let this bunch get too cocky after Denver.

Arrogance.

Too many days off reading press clippings.

They all got the swolled heads - they think they can just walk on the field and win.

Coryea

11-23-2009, 02:22 PM

There's a time to play smart too - you have a 10 point lead - you run the ball, bust them in the mouth by running the ball down their throats and they give up.
When we needed a game manager we got a brain damaged turnover machine that lost the game.

LOL, yep Ben lost this game for us, by putting that ball right in Miller's hand so he could not catch it and allow it to be intercepted. And to allow that DE/LB to come right around edge and nail him while in the middle of throwing to an open Ward in the back of the endzone.

Spike

11-23-2009, 02:26 PM

I'm afraid Ben read my 65-0 prediction and tried a little too hard to fit in all my Madden plays.

Coryea

11-23-2009, 02:29 PM

I think Arians is reading your 5 Wide threads to much and going with an empty backfield way to much.

Spike

11-23-2009, 02:33 PM

I got us a 17-7 lead. I refuse to take any of the blame after that - I'll blame the coaches.

Str8liner

11-23-2009, 03:16 PM

Tomlin let this bunch get too cocky after Denver

Well, we now know that that win in Denver was against a VASTLY overrated Broncos team. Look what SD went in there and did yesterday with the division lead on the line.

I don't think its being cocky, but I cant help but wander whats been going on with the team the last few weeks. There seems to be no emotion, no fire, its almost like they are going through the motions.

steelhawk

11-23-2009, 03:22 PM

And the Texans game before that. We seem to do this at least once or twice year, dominate a team in every statistical category and end up on the losing end. It's maddening! We are up 17-7 and on KC's goal line!

Steelermania

11-23-2009, 03:38 PM

fogdoctor

11-23-2009, 03:40 PM

When you get up by 10pts its time to take the air out of the ball. Play keep away and protect the D.

cowherjaw

11-23-2009, 05:11 PM

When you get a 10 point lead in the second half, it's time to impose your will. Unfortunately, we're not built to do this. Arians doesn't believe in running the ball, thus we have no true fullback, and we can't/won't/don't pound teams when the situation calls for it. To have Charlie Batch dropping back to pass on first down in that situation is just inexcusable. They want Ben to be Brett Favre. Someone remind me how many rings Brett has, despite playing on good teams most of his career. No one is asking for three yards and a cloud of dust, but you need to have a certain mindset to run the ball effectively, and you can't automatically not run because you think the other team is expecting it. If you have the right players, properly prepared, a weak team can know what's coming, and not be able to stop it.

Who is the Colts' true fullback?
What are Indy's rushing ranks right now?....Rushing YPG=850=31st; Rushing average=3.8=27th; Rushing attempts/game=22.6=30th.
Passing ranks?....Passing YPG=313.5=1st; Pass Attempts/game=39=4th....that means they pass 63.3% of the time. (As compared ro our rush/pass per game=26.3/34.7 which is 56.8% passing)

There are lots of ways to win games and this is not aimed at you in particular. If you think we pass too much and don't have enough balance, then maybe we don't have the quality of QB and offense that they have in Indy and New England and Arizona.

Vader

11-23-2009, 05:15 PM

Who is the Colts' true fullback?
What are Indy's rushing ranks right now?....Rushing YPG=850=31st; Rushing average=3.8=27th; Rushing attempts/game=22.6=30th.
Passing ranks?....Passing YPG=313.5=1st; Pass Attempts/game=39=4th....that means they pass 63.3% of the time. (As compared ro our rush/pass per game=26.3/34.7 which is 56.8% passing)

There are lots of ways to win games and this is not aimed at you in particular. If you think we pass too much and don't have enough balance, then maybe we don't have the quality of QB and offense that they have in Indy and New England and Arizona.

Let's be honest. We don't have the same type of team as the Colts. Do you see Manning running around trying to duck people and hoping to see a WR open down field somewhere??? No, they run a precision passing game. The ball comes out quickly and accurately. Not this backyard crap that Arians does. There is nothing wrong with passing the ball. But you have to have some type of flow to the offense. We have a collection of plays not a system.

Bobki100

11-23-2009, 05:38 PM

You serious? Did you watch the game? Ben saved the Olines ass several times yesterday. On the INT, he looked right, the guys was covered turned left to throw and was hit, and you're putting that on him? He made one read, then was hit. Colon played his worst game of the season yesterday. Miller had a ball go right through his hands for a pick in KC territory, Wallace catches a long pass, then gets it stripped, and Arians shit play calling. Ben is the last one to blame. The defense, the well rested defense sucked ass in the second half, but this just goes to show this is what happens when you give a NFL QB time to throw, we were happy to just 4 guys most of the second half.

On it's best day the o-line is barely average.

Wig

11-23-2009, 05:41 PM

And how do the Colts typically do in the playoffs? As I remember it the ONE year they did finally win a championship, Manning was pretty sub-par throughout the playoffs and the running game and defense ratcheted it up a few notches. The big surprise that year was how dominating the defense was NOT how sharp Manning was.

cowherjaw

11-23-2009, 06:16 PM

Let's be honest. We don't have the same type of team as the Colts. Do you see Manning running around trying to duck people and hoping to see a WR open down field somewhere??? No, they run a precision passing game. The ball comes out quickly and accurately. Not this backyard crap that Arians does. There is nothing wrong with passing the ball. But you have to have some type of flow to the offense. We have a collection of plays not a system.

I don'tr know why you can't see a flow to our offensive system. We are like #5 or 6 rated in the NFL in yards. The defense is #1 right now in yards. We do "lead" the league in giving up reutrns for scores and we are tied for 25th in turnover ratio (Arians' fault, i know). Apparently, we can move the ball and stop people from scoring. And yes, to be honest, I don't care who is calling the plays and whether or not they are improvised. Overall, this offense is successful even with its extremely average talent at most positions. The system was built around taking advantage of Ben's talents, and that's what it does. Peyton's system is devised for him and Brady's system is devised for him. They are all successful systems where the QB has a lot of input.

Vader

11-23-2009, 07:10 PM

I don'tr know why you can't see a flow to our offensive system. We are like #5 or 6 rated in the NFL in yards. The defense is #1 right now in yards. We do "lead" the league in giving up reutrns for scores and we are tied for 25th in turnover ratio (Arians' fault, i know). Apparently, we can move the ball and stop people from scoring. And yes, to be honest, I don't care who is calling the plays and whether or not they are improvised. Overall, this offense is successful even with its extremely average talent at most positions. The system was built around taking advantage of Ben's talents, and that's what it does. Peyton's system is devised for him and Brady's system is devised for him. They are all successful systems where the QB has a lot of input.

Stats don't tell the entire story... like giving up game winning drives even though statically they are #1 in defense.. big woop. Or being 5th or 6th in yards.. so what? I don't remember the NFL adding up yard totals to award a winner. The entire purpose of the offense is to score... NOT give the other team points, or rack up fantasy yards. So I couldn't care less what their yard total is.

2nd this offense is not "extremely' average at most positions. We have a HOF WR, 2 time SB champ QB, SB MVP WR, Very good young RB who was tearing the Chiefs a new one, one of the best rookie WRs in the league and one of the best TEs in the league. I'd hardly call that average.

3rd there is NO system. It isn't built around anything. If you believe there is a system then what is it predicated on? Would somebody really devise a system that has NO plays that setup other plays? How about a system the is DESIGNED to break down and let the QB run around??? Again there is NO system. It is back yard football at it's best... or worst.

Nabok99

11-23-2009, 07:56 PM

Not that surprising. The offense piles up yards (well, against bad defenses anyway) and leaves points on the field all over the place. Hell, the turnovers kept the Browns in the game a month ago, and even in their dominant-looking third quarter against the Broncos, they still managed two turnovers and gave up six points of their own. Someone, somehow, will f*ck up. Ben's bad picks, the fumbles, dropped passes, M. Moore overtime sweep calls (thanks, Bruce), blah blah blah...

And the D can't play an entire game this year, sucks in the 4th quarter, can't make key stops against a sh*tty offense. Troy's out, they're old, blah blah blah...

jmat

11-23-2009, 08:00 PM

Blowing double digit second half leads is hardly the offenses fault.

MT~Forged

11-23-2009, 08:03 PM

This what happens when you turn the ball over, without an offsetting number of take aways.

Caligula

11-23-2009, 08:04 PM

Blowing double digit second half leads is hardly the offenses fault.

Yep. Can't stop Matt Cassell on a 3rd and 9? JFC.

cowherjaw

11-23-2009, 09:39 PM

Stats don't tell the entire story... like giving up game winning drives even though statically they are #1 in defense.. big woop. Or being 5th or 6th in yards.. so what? I don't remember the NFL adding up yard totals to award a winner. The entire purpose of the offense is to score... NOT give the other team points, or rack up fantasy yards. So I couldn't care less what their yard total is.

2nd this offense is not "extremely' average at most positions. We have a HOF WR, 2 time SB champ QB, SB MVP WR, Very good young RB who was tearing the Chiefs a new one, one of the best rookie WRs in the league and one of the best TEs in the league. I'd hardly call that average.

3rd there is NO system. It isn't built around anything. If you believe there is a system then what is it predicated on? Would somebody really devise a system that has NO plays that setup other plays? How about a system the is DESIGNED to break down and let the QB run around??? Again there is NO system. It is back yard football at it's best... or worst.

Of course stats don't tell the whole story, but they do show that the offense has had some success and we're not dumfounded as to what to do on the field.

This offense is average at every position not called QB. Their past accomplishments are impressive, but our WRs are average to slightly above, our TE is good; our backs are average and our OL is average to slightly below, especially at run blocking. Sometimes they look really good; others not so much.

If there is no system, how in the world do you and every other member on this board know what play is coming every time. The system is predicated on putting the ball in the hands of our playmakers pretty much in proportion to their abilities except when the matchup dictates otherwise. The system is also predicated on having more receiving options than in the past to include putting an extra WR or TE in the game instead of a fullback much of the time. It is passing more than running. It is utilizing lots of quick screens as handoffs early in the game to get the defense out of the box to open up the running game later on. (Speaking of stats not telling the whole story, take a look at the number of quick hits we use and realize that those passes are like runs and we're really not as heavy of a passing team as we might seem.)

Vader

11-23-2009, 11:20 PM

Of course stats don't tell the whole story, but they do show that the offense has had some success and we're not dumfounded as to what to do on the field.

This offense is average at every position not called QB. Their past accomplishments are impressive, but our WRs are average to slightly above, our TE is good; our backs are average and our OL is average to slightly below, especially at run blocking. Sometimes they look really good; others not so much.

If there is no system, how in the world do you and every other member on this board know what play is coming every time. The system is predicated on putting the ball in the hands of our playmakers pretty much in proportion to their abilities except when the matchup dictates otherwise. The system is also predicated on having more receiving options than in the past to include putting an extra WR or TE in the game instead of a fullback much of the time. It is passing more than running. It is utilizing lots of quick screens as handoffs early in the game to get the defense out of the box to open up the running game later on. (Speaking of stats not telling the whole story, take a look at the number of quick hits we use and realize that those passes are like runs and we're really not as heavy of a passing team as we might seem.)

Success= scoring? or moving the ball?

As far as average goes; your out of your mind. Ward is 6th in the NFL for WRs in yards. He is a SB MVP and a HOF player. I've already stated the rest so I'm not going over it again. If you are too blind to see all the talent we have on offense that is on you.

I know what play is coming by the formation. That doesn't mean they have a system setup to use players later in the game. You description tells us they have system. Looking at your answer lets me know that you don't know the system. How does quick screens and handoffs open up the running game later on??? I've got to hear this.

cowherjaw

11-24-2009, 02:13 AM

Success= scoring? or moving the ball?

As far as average goes; your out of your mind. Ward is 6th in the NFL for WRs in yards. He is a SB MVP and a HOF player. I've already stated the rest so I'm not going over it again. If you are too blind to see all the talent we have on offense that is on you.

I know what play is coming by the formation. That doesn't mean they have a system setup to use players later in the game. You description tells us they have system. Looking at your answer lets me know that you don't know the system. How does quick screens and handoffs open up the running game later on??? I've got to hear this.

Ultimately success is wins. There is a multitude of reasons we don't have more points. Some is playcalling; some is turning the ball over and some is having to drive the length of the field on most of our drives in order to score because for how great our receivers and our QB seem to be, we never seem to beat anybody deep for points, do we?

Our receivers are ok. The main 2 can make plays with the ball in their hands and the kid can stretch the field; however, they aren't good at getting off the line. Holmes is the best and teams are learning to get their arms in the slant passing lane when they blitz. That's why we run so many bunch formations and sets where the receivers are directly offset to each other. They have to rub for each other to get off the line and when the game is on the line and the Steelers need to make that last first down to put the game away, other teams send the house and let their DBs man up and take away the short inside stuff. That's why we had to throw long on 3rd and 2 in Chicago; it's why Mike Brown got the big sack on Sunday and it's why it Cincinnati kept knocking the ball down in the 2nd half last week. Most teams don't do it early because it's vulnerable to the big play but when the game is on the line, teams are choosing to make Ben and the WRs win the battle quickly instead of leting Ben pick them apart. Let's see how many offensive players we get in the probowl or make the All Pro team if you prefer and you'll see who our superstars are.

Why isn't it obvious that throwing that quick hitch to the WR helps open up the running game? Are you serious that you need that explained to you?

Vader

11-24-2009, 03:10 AM

Ultimately success is wins. There is a multitude of reasons we don't have more points. Some is playcalling; some is turning the ball over and some is having to drive the length of the field on most of our drives in order to score because for how great our receivers and our QB seem to be, we never seem to beat anybody deep for points, do we?

Our receivers are ok. The main 2 can make plays with the ball in their hands and the kid can stretch the field; however, they aren't good at getting off the line. Holmes is the best and teams are learning to get their arms in the slant passing lane when they blitz. That's why we run so many bunch formations and sets where the receivers are directly offset to each other. They have to rub for each other to get off the line and when the game is on the line and the Steelers need to make that last first down to put the game away, other teams send the house and let their DBs man up and take away the short inside stuff. That's why we had to throw long on 3rd and 2 in Chicago; it's why Mike Brown got the big sack on Sunday and it's why it Cincinnati kept knocking the ball down in the 2nd half last week. Most teams don't do it early because it's vulnerable to the big play but when the game is on the line, teams are choosing to make Ben and the WRs win the battle quickly instead of leting Ben pick them apart. Let's see how many offensive players we get in the probowl or make the All Pro team if you prefer and you'll see who our superstars are.

Why isn't it obvious that throwing that quick hitch to the WR helps open up the running game? Are you serious that you need that explained to you?

Because quick hitches and handoffs bring defenders CLOSER to LOS not further. Did I really need to tell you that? What makes it easy to run is if you stretch the field not keep things close to the LOS. I guess throwing the ball opens up the pass as well right???

FAB802

11-24-2009, 04:06 AM

Our special teams are a joke. Obviously it isn't an area of concern since Tomlin hasn't done shit to address it. You never really see me question him much, but I can't defend blatant stupidity. There have been untimely turnovers, and missed opportunities by our offense. Sweed catches that TD earlier in the season and we probably win. If Farrior tackles the FB on 4th down when he has him well short we do win the first Cincy game. Holmes catches that TD two weeks ago, or Ben doesn't miss a wide open Wallace in the EZ we probably win that game. If we don't turn the ball over deep in their end we probably win yesterday. I can't stand the way Arians seems to have no grasp of when his running game is working and abandons it for no reason like yesterday.

The offense is moving the ball and doing enough almost every game to win. That's with the ridiculous red zone inefficiency. The coach can't catch and throw the ball for them too. Lastly, our defense has been dogshit in the fourth quarter with the lead all season. Yesterday was an embarrassment and all of them should donate their checks to charity. Letting an inept offense like that walk up and down the field on you in crunch time is gutless at best. The Chiefs had the ball for 22 minutes and that was enough to win the game. I don't know what it will take for this team to realize last year is over, but they better figure it out quick unless they want to be done January 3rd. Don't get me wrong, I think this team has enough talent to get into the playoff's and do some damage. Problem is the clock is ticking on whether or not they will get a chance to do so.

Stlrs4Life

11-24-2009, 04:09 AM

Definately wasn't the first time it has happened.

Coryea

11-24-2009, 12:13 PM

Nabok99

11-24-2009, 12:47 PM

Drafting Spaeth in the third round and using him almost exclusively as a blocker is bewildering. Cost them four points in the Super Bowl, they're still doing it.

Vader

11-24-2009, 01:44 PM

I see everyone bringing up Indy and New England, well Arians is too stubborn to allow us to have an offense like that. The problem with Arians is he doesn't allow this offense to have an identity. This offense should be a 3WR, TE, RB base set, it puts our best offensive weapons on the field, it spreads the field out and allows Ben to get a better feel for the defense pre-snap. What do we start the KC game in? 3 TE's, we run out of that set pretty much every time. What did we do in both Cincy games? We move the ball into the redzone, as soon as we get in the redzone, he brings in 3 TE's and tries to run the ball. Even the announcer mentioned that during the Cincy game.
He's enamored with Spaeth and the two TE set for some reason, we've never had success in that formation, but he contiues to try to use that formation.

Exactly right. Watch NE and INdy and you won't see our offense. They get the ball out quickly on timing routes. Also 3 TEs is useless when 1 of those is Spaeth. He can't block a blind nun from a confessional booth. Our best formation is the 3 WR, TE, RB set. I'd NEVER use an empty set with this bunch. The other team just blitzes because there is no one left to pick it up. Plus the fact we almost never throw quickly and it is a sack waiting to happen.

cowherjaw

11-24-2009, 07:46 PM

Because quick hitches and handoffs bring defenders CLOSER to LOS not further. Did I really need to tell you that? What makes it easy to run is if you stretch the field not keep things close to the LOS. I guess throwing the ball opens up the pass as well right???

My original note said quick hitches AS handoffs, not and handoffs. The quick hitch opens up the run usually either by bringing the corner closer to the LOS and forcing the safey out of the box to help deep or if they stay in cover 3, it makes the linebackers cheat out to the flats or hesitate before pursuing the RB. If they just bring the corners up and don't give additional pass help, the defense is open to big plays in the passing game and teams don't typically take that risk until later in ball games. You will have a hard time convincing me that if a defense is adjusting to stop a quick pass to the outside that they are able to leave themselves just as strong in run support. This is why we often throw those passes on our first couple of series and why it gets revisited to some degree usually early in the 2nd half.

Vader

11-24-2009, 09:18 PM

My original note said quick hitches AS handoffs, not and handoffs. The quick hitch opens up the run usually either by bringing the corner closer to the LOS and forcing the safey out of the box to help deep or if they stay in cover 3, it makes the linebackers cheat out to the flats or hesitate before pursuing the RB. If they just bring the corners up and don't give additional pass help, the defense is open to big plays in the passing game and teams don't typically take that risk until later in ball games. You will have a hard time convincing me that if a defense is adjusting to stop a quick pass to the outside that they are able to leave themselves just as strong in run support. This is why we often throw those passes on our first couple of series and why it gets revisited to some degree usually early in the 2nd half.

We have been running the bubble screen since Arians was the OC.. and our running game has sucked... so please tell me again how that is suppose to work..

cowherjaw

11-24-2009, 10:28 PM

We have been running the bubble screen since Arians was the OC.. and our running game has sucked... so please tell me again how that is suppose to work..

In my world, the sky is blue; I am sure you can find a world where it is not.

I have told you the strategy behind the quick screen and why we do them. That does not guarantee success in the running game; it only improves it because the defense has to pay attention to the outside more. If you are only going to judge by results, then look at the wins and superbowl trophies and smile; otherwise, realize that making the right play in a game that is determined by a multitude of variables you can't control may not always yield you the results you desire.

My position is that in our losses this year, execution shoulders more of the burden than playcalling. You disagree and it can't be proven either way. We have gone down a rathole with our posts and we're way off topic now. We are 25th in turnover ratio. This team does not trake care of the ball nor cause enough on the other side. That is the key reason we have 4 losses and we're lucky not to have more. I am sorry that the OC hasn't been able to compensate for the critical mistakes the players are making but the players are the ones making the big mistakes in these games.

NYSteel

11-24-2009, 10:59 PM

The flag-football style offense is high-risk, high reward.

The Steelers are a pass-first team by choice. They run the ball to show it, but they cannot run it with consistency by virtue of scheme/personnel/execution. Look at the first drive of the 3Q. They hit a first down pass for 7 yards. Very nice. They're nursing a 3-point lead there. You love a 10-minute, clock draining drive here, even for a FG. They run Mendy on 2nd and 3rd, and can't convert. A shame, really.

To make matters worse, the Steelers do not have a strong pass Defense. When they rush 4, they give up plays in coverage due to a lack of consistent pressure. Their blitzes do not seem well timed, and they don't look confident on the field.

They are 6-4, with wins over some impressive opponents. But their weaknesses, especially without Troy on Def, are apparent. Blitz Ben and play man behind it. BR holds the ball too long, the rush will get there. On D, teams are passing in the flat to the RBs or TEs. They target any LBer in coverage. Teams are coveting those match-ups with our LBs.

Vader

11-24-2009, 11:18 PM

In my world, the sky is blue; I am sure you can find a world where it is not.

I have told you the strategy behind the quick screen and why we do them. That does not guarantee success in the running game; it only improves it because the defense has to pay attention to the outside more. If you are only going to judge by results, then look at the wins and superbowl trophies and smile; otherwise, realize that making the right play in a game that is determined by a multitude of variables you can't control may not always yield you the results you desire.

My position is that in our losses this year, execution shoulders more of the burden than playcalling. You disagree and it can't be proven either way. We have gone down a rathole with our posts and we're way off topic now. We are 25th in turnover ratio. This team does not trake care of the ball nor cause enough on the other side. That is the key reason we have 4 losses and we're lucky not to have more. I am sorry that the OC hasn't been able to compensate for the critical mistakes the players are making but the players are the ones making the big mistakes in these games.

I'm sorry I should have just answer the question at hand. No, the bubble screens are not designed to open up the running game. If anything they are designed to open up the deep passing game because it moves the CB an inch or two up CLOSER TO THE LOS. The Lbers don't move AT ALL. They shouldn't and any DC worth a flip won't let his lbers move for a play that a CB should make.

Awesome-o

11-25-2009, 12:12 AM

Houston Texans in 2002. thats exactly what I thought of during and after the game. Turnover Tommys game back after he got his cap peeled by the tits.

Easy-E

11-25-2009, 12:47 AM

The defense is just not the same without Troy and Aaron Smith. IMO the two most irreplaceable guys on our D

cowherjaw

11-25-2009, 05:53 AM

I'm sorry I should have just answer the question at hand. No, the bubble screens are not designed to open up the running game. If anything they are designed to open up the deep passing game because it moves the CB an inch or two up CLOSER TO THE LOS. The Lbers don't move AT ALL. They shouldn't and any DC worth a flip won't let his lbers move for a play that a CB should make.

They certainly can open up the deep passing game and they will if that is the only adjustment the defense makes, but often to bring the CB closer to the line usually means moving from a cover 3 or 4 to a man or cover 2, which clears the safety out of the box. Yes, the LBs might shade outside more or even play more of a read and react ather than attacking the run....honest.

Obviously, our football philosophies and experiences are different. I can agree to disagree on multiple levels with you.

Again, my main point was turnovers >>>> playcalling as far as impact on our games. Playcalling is much more a factor when it comes to the inexperienced or challenged QB. With an experinced, franchise QB who helped design the playbook and has multiple audibles at his disposal on every play, the original playcall is isn't that big of a deal once you get into the flow of a game. I hope we can agree on that.

ChildOfHumanity

11-25-2009, 01:02 PM

All the offensive gains you make in a game can be nullified by penalties and turnovers. The Bengals were reminded of this Sunday as were the Steelers. These guys just have to learn to protect the football and not throw ill advised passed into triple coverage.

Vader

11-25-2009, 03:36 PM

They certainly can open up the deep passing game and they will if that is the only adjustment the defense makes, but often to bring the CB closer to the line usually means moving from a cover 3 or 4 to a man or cover 2, which clears the safety out of the box. Yes, the LBs might shade outside more or even play more of a read and react ather than attacking the run....honest.

Obviously, our football philosophies and experiences are different. I can agree to disagree on multiple levels with you.

Again, my main point was turnovers >>>> playcalling as far as impact on our games. Playcalling is much more a factor when it comes to the inexperienced or challenged QB. With an experinced, franchise QB who helped design the playbook and has multiple audibles at his disposal on every play, the original playcall is isn't that big of a deal once you get into the flow of a game. I hope we can agree on that.

I agree with that, however when the QB comes out in public and says "I called the plays on that last drive" in one game and then in another game the OC comes and out says "I called the plays in the 4th quarter" then that tells me there is something to this play calling stuff.