It sucks to be a Pittsburgher...

[Dixon Hand]

I had season tickets from 1983-1989. My company closed and I just couldn't afford them and let them lapse. About 3 years ago I put my name back on the waiting list and am proud to say that I have moved up to 33,488 on the list!

That being said, my neighbor called me on Saturday and offered me two tickets to the game. I unfortunately had to travel but I asked him how long he has had his tickets. He said they were his grandfathers original seats that he got in 1970 when 3 Rivers opened. His dad had the same name and when his grandfather passed in the late 70's his Dad took over the seats. When the new stadium opened his dad purchased the seat license and gave my neighbor the seats and license as a Christmas gift! That's 4 seats for 37 years that no other Steeler fan was able to use. No tailgates, no playoffs, no superbowls! THERE SHOULD BE A TIMELIMIT AFFIXED TO SEAT OWNERSHIP! My son is 25 and one of the most diehard Stiller fans in the world yet he has to pay inflated prices for seats, pray for someone to offer him some or like so many other great Stiller fans...watch it on the TV.

So many generations of fans will never be able to experience the atmosphere which is a Stiller Sunday because of the selfishness of season ticket holders and no control by the Steeler organization to offer their package to the millions of fans who support this great team! SHAME ON THE STEELERS AND SHAME ON THE SELFISH TICKETHOLDERS WHO HOARD THE TICKETS AND KEEP SO MANY GREAT STEELER FANS FROM EXPERIENCING FOOTBALL HEAVEN!

B-t-w, fire Arians!

[CoolieMan]

boo fucking hoo...try being a Steelers fan from another city, where if you want to purchase tickets for the game when the Steelers come to town they make you buy tickets to another game that no one wants to see.....

[Coryea]

boo fucking hoo...try being a Steelers fan from another city, where if you want to purchase tickets for the game when the Steelers come to town they make you buy tickets to another game that no one wants to see.....

Boo fucking hoo, move to Pittsburgh. :D

[Diamond Dave]

I feel your pain.

The infinite PSL ownership was bar none the stupidest decision ever made by the Steelers organization. All it did was make a lifetime membership club that's nearly impossible to join and create a black market that serves doctors and lawyers.

[CoolieMan]

Boo fucking hoo, move to Pittsburgh. :D

it would be too close to you....and angie wouldn't be able to stay away from me....

[Steelerman]

I'm a season ticket holder and I got "grandfathered" in. However, I get to as many games as possible. The past sunday I drove home through a near blizzard on the PA turnpike to get back to Virginia. That's why I can't stand when people choose to not attend games in the "cold". I drove through a g-damn blizzard, so you self-righteous lifetime ticket holding pukes that live 15 minutes away can show up too and put those tickets to use.

[bigtwnvin]

Yeah Coolie! Coryea doesn't even live in Pittsburgh. :p
Like most displaced Pittsburghers if I want to come up to Heinz Field to see a game I'll have to pay some jagoff ticket holder an arm and a leg to go to a game he didn't intend on going to in the first place. They all say the same thing: "I can make enough off of two games to pay my season package". Unless you know somebody, you're screwed.
When (if) the Steelers play the Jags in a WC game, just go to E-Bay and check out the prices. Un-FA-King real! :eek:

[Callipygiad]

Sure, invite Coolie to move to Pittsburgh while you hide out with the Amish.

[BillvinCowbert]

I feel your pain.

The infinite PSL ownership was bar none the stupidest decision ever made by the Steelers organization. All it did was make a lifetime membership club that's nearly impossible to join and create a black market that serves doctors and lawyers.

Is it really different than the infinite "non-PSL" season ticket ownership? I think it's less about the PSLs and more about the ebays and craigslists and stubhubs that have created this HUGE secondary market which used to only exist in classified ads.

[Coryea]

Sure, invite Coolie to move to Pittsburgh while you hide out with the Amish.

Well duh, I'm not putting up with him.

[FistfullofRings]

I feel your pain.

The infinite PSL ownership was bar none the stupidest decision ever made by the Steelers organization. All it did was make a lifetime membership club that's nearly impossible to join and create a black market that serves doctors and lawyers.

I wouldn't say "stupidest". I'm sure it was the decision that netted them the most money the fatest.

I think the waiting list will beign to move in 5 - 10 years. Pittsburgh is aging. You see alot of 50 and 60 year-olds at the Steelers games nowadays, you don't, and won't, see many 70+ year olds at Steelers game. Not all of the tickets will be taken over by their children.

[BillvinCowbert]

I think the waiting list will beign to move in 5 - 10 years. Pittsburgh is aging. You see alot of 50 and 60 year-olds at the Steelers games nowadays, you don't, and won't, see many 70+ year olds at Steelers game. Not all of the tickets will be taken over by their children.

Yeah, but they can SELL the PSL on the secondary market for $5K per seat (+/- a few grand depending on the section), so they'd be stupid to let the seats "lapse"....

The only way this list ever moves again is (a) an addition to Heinz or (b) a new stadium with newer, fatter PSL prices.

[Diamond Dave]

Is it really different than the infinite "non-PSL" season ticket ownership? I think it's less about the PSLs and more about the ebays and craigslists and stubhubs that have created this HUGE secondary market which used to only exist in classified ads.

I wouldn't say "stupidest". I'm sure it was the decision that netted them the most money the fatest.

I think the waiting list will beign to move in 5 - 10 years. Pittsburgh is aging. You see alot of 50 and 60 year-olds at the Steelers games nowadays, you don't, and won't, see many 70+ year olds at Steelers game. Not all of the tickets will be taken over by their children.

I might be wrong but I think the difference is between the old season tickets and the PSLs is that under the old way. if you gave up your season tickets for a year, or the ticket holder died, that was it. The tickets were not transferable.

With the PSL's those are your seats for life and they are fully transferable and can even be inherited if the holder dies. Because your are the PSL holder, you have to deny buying the season tickets every year if you don't want them, so if you don't get season tickets for 2008, your PSL gets you moved right to the front of the list in 2009. You paid a one time PSL fee which basically holds your place in line forever. Under the old way, if you gave up your tickets and got out of the line, you moved to the back with everyone else.

Bring into the equation that the prices for game tickets far outweigh the face value and a PSL is like printing money. Unless you need a large cash payment for something, you would be stupid to ever sell your PSL. Don't want to go to the games? Fine - sit home and make money. But the guy who is currently 16,561st in line is NEVER going to move up in his lifetime.

The PSLs should have had an expiration date. 5 years, 10 years...whatever.

[tooz]

"But the guy who is currently 16,561st in line is NEVER going to move up in his lifetime."

Believe it or not, the attrition rate is about 3% per year. So, each year roughly 2,000 people give up their PSL's. If you're thinking about jumping on the list, it would be a 30+ year wait. But the guy at the ticket office told me more like 23-25.

[Doc]

sorry, but I'm a ignorant outta towner....does Green Bay do a similar thing with there season tix?

[Jer]

I never understood why the Rooney's didn't have more seating built into the new stadium? Beaver Stadium has 107K seats. The Rooney's could have easily had 107,000 seats sold.

[BillvinCowbert]

With the PSL's those are your seats for life and they are fully transferable and can even be inherited if the holder dies. Because your are the PSL holder, you have to deny buying the season tickets every year if you don't want them, so if you don't get season tickets for 2008, your PSL gets you moved right to the front of the list in 2009. You paid a one time PSL fee which basically holds your place in line forever. Under the old way, if you gave up your tickets and got out of the line, you moved to the back with everyone else.

I do think you're wrong about this. I'm 99% sure that you HAVE to pay for your season tix to retain the PSL. Of course, those that "can't afford it" simply sell the tix to someone else, pay the Steelers and retain the seats.

As I've stated NUMEROUS times before (and sometimes get blasted), the SIMPLE solution is to do what the hated Patriots do. Revoke the tickets of those that are selling them for a profit on places like stubhub and ebay. Get the tickets into the hands of people that are going to use them.

I actually share season tix with a couple of guys, and I only made it back for one game this year. But it's pretty easy to find people to go, ESPECIALLY if you plan in advance.

[BillvinCowbert]

Believe it or not, the attrition rate is about 3% per year. So, each year roughly 2,000 people give up their PSL's.

I don't believe that for a second. Where did you come up with that figure. MAYBE 3% of PSLs get transferred every year, but it doesn't filter down to people on the waiting list.

[Diamond Dave]

Believe it or not, the attrition rate is about 3% per year. So, each year roughly 2,000 people give up their PSL's.

Who told you that lie?

Maybe 2000 are transfered/sold, but I refuse to belive the 2000 people just say screw it and let them lapse.

[GoSteelers]

I never understood why the Rooney's didn't have more seating built into the new stadium? Beaver Stadium has 107K seats. The Rooney's could have easily had 107,000 seats sold.


maybe they aren't psu fans, and if not, why imitate them?

[Stlrs4Life]

I had season tickets from 1983-1989. My company closed and I just couldn't afford them and let them lapse. About 3 years ago I put my name back on the waiting list and am proud to say that I have moved up to 33,488 on the list!

That being said, my neighbor called me on Saturday and offered me two tickets to the game. I unfortunately had to travel but I asked him how long he has had his tickets. He said they were his grandfathers original seats that he got in 1970 when 3 Rivers opened. His dad had the same name and when his grandfather passed in the late 70's his Dad took over the seats. When the new stadium opened his dad purchased the seat license and gave my neighbor the seats and license as a Christmas gift! That's 4 seats for 37 years that no other Steeler fan was able to use. No tailgates, no playoffs, no superbowls! THERE SHOULD BE A TIMELIMIT AFFIXED TO SEAT OWNERSHIP! My son is 25 and one of the most diehard Stiller fans in the world yet he has to pay inflated prices for seats, pray for someone to offer him some or like so many other great Stiller fans...watch it on the TV.

So many generations of fans will never be able to experience the atmosphere which is a Stiller Sunday because of the selfishness of season ticket holders and no control by the Steeler organization to offer their package to the millions of fans who support this great team! SHAME ON THE STEELERS AND SHAME ON THE SELFISH TICKETHOLDERS WHO HOARD THE TICKETS AND KEEP SO MANY GREAT STEELER FANS FROM EXPERIENCING FOOTBALL HEAVEN!

B-t-w, fire Arians!



No, it sucks to be you. As 1 of those "Selfish" season ticketholders to 4 seats. Why should I have to give them up after so many years of having them? I have a right to those tickets every year just like everybody else. And I purchased mine in 92. I was lucky. I purchased 4 singles in 3 Rivers at the time. Nobody wanted singles. I didn't care where they were at, I just wanted in the stadium. The ones that you should be mad at are all the Corporate seats that have been bought up. They are the ones keeping the hard core fans out. And also, be mad at the Brokers. They buy them up and resell them for outrageous prices.

[CAH]

The Steeler Office told me when I picked up my seats that they lose 2% per year.

[Diamond Dave]

The Steeler Office told me when I picked up my seats that they lose 2% per year.

And this was just recently?

[Slingnsteel17]

Where is this list at. I have been on since 1999 and was just wondering what number I might be. Does not sound like it will be a low number though

[Dixon Hand]

I never understood why the Rooney's didn't have more seating built into the new stadium? Beaver Stadium has 107K seats. The Rooney's could have easily had 107,000 seats sold.

I was shocked too that they didn't go for around 80,000. Arrowhead holds 77,000 and they always sell out. Look at the Clowns in the old Municipal Stadium. It was 80,000 and they sold out every game.

Looking at how the Steelers have been notoriously "cheap" with free agents, it's not too much of a suprise to see them keep the stadium smaller because of cost.

Did I mention fire Arians?

[pete]

The Steeler Office told me when I picked up my seats that they lose 2% per year.

And this was just recently?

Oh crap. If CAH just got her's now and I'm 22...I got about 100 more years to go.

Shit.

[Diamond Dave]

Looking at how the Steelers have been notoriously "cheap" with free agents, it's not too much of a suprise to see them keep the stadium smaller because of cost.


Considering who paid for it, that statement makes no sense.

[SoCal Steeler Fan]

What's up with the weak showing in the stadium last weekend! Embarassing to see so many empty seats on TV. The snow games are the best ones to go to! Too bad it doesn't snow at Qualcomm. Steeler fans outnumber Charger fans when the Steelers come to SD! Fire it up!

[JohnnyO]

I never understood why the Rooney's didn't have more seating built into the new stadium? Beaver Stadium has 107K seats. The Rooney's could have easily had 107,000 seats sold.

That's what I was thinking. Got no problem with someone holding tickets for 37 years if they and their family use them...or even sell them to someone else to use. Frankly a lot of tickets are on the secondary market because people can't afford a whole season's worth. I know a couple who HAD season tickets for just a few years but when Heinz Field opened and they started with the PSL's they just couldn't afford it and didn't want to deal with selling some of them so they let them go.
Build a 100,000 seat stadium and it's not as much of a problem.

Doc -- great avatar.

[JohnnyO]

What's up with the weak showing in the stadium last weekend! Embarassing to see so many empty seats on TV. The snow games are the best ones to go to! Too bad it doesn't snow at Qualcomm. Steeler fans outnumber Charger fans when the Steelers come to SD! Fire it up!
Again, a lot of the people who can afford the tickets aren't hard-core enough to come out when it's 20* and snowing. JMHO.
I do agree with the philosophy that a lot of long-time season ticket holders will be dying off soon and frankly for a lot of them, their kids don't live here (hence the birth of Steeler Nation) and aren't going to travel back home from Charlotte or Tampa or Phoenix 8 times a year for a game.
Read the obits in the P-G sometime and see how many of peoples' surviving relatives live in other places. It's a kick.
Demographics are my hobby.

[Dixon Hand]

Considering who paid for it, that statement makes no sense.

DD, you're forgetting that the Rooney's were given a set amount of money from us taxpayers to build it which included a clause for "overruns" being owed by the Steelers and NOT the taxpayers. The Rooney's are one of the few owners in the NFL that their only income is the Steelers. Art Sr. made a lot of money during prohibition AND at the track. He never owned corporations/companies. I'm assuming they invested well but they don't have the same deep pockets that Snyder does in DC or Jones in Dallas. So when the money came down from the taxpayers, it was a clear...this is what you get and nothing more. Had they had deeper pockets they probably would have built a bigger stadium. However, knowing full well that any cost overruns would be at the Steeler expense...they got conservative, a trait they use all too well when keeping players!!! So in reality they acted exactly opposite of the politicians...they only spent what was given to them!

[BillvinCowbert]

DD, you're forgetting that the Rooney's were given a set amount of money from us taxpayers to build it which included a clause for "overruns" being owed by the Steelers and NOT the taxpayers. The Rooney's are one of the few owners in the NFL that their only income is the Steelers. Art Sr. made a lot of money during prohibition AND at the track. He never owned corporations/companies. I'm assuming they invested well but they don't have the same deep pockets that Snyder does in DC or Jones in Dallas. So when the money came down from the taxpayers, it was a clear...this is what you get and nothing more. Had they had deeper pockets they probably would have built a bigger stadium. However, knowing full well that any cost overruns would be at the Steeler expense...they got conservative, a trait they use all too well when keeping players!!! So in reality they acted exactly opposite of the politicians...they only spent what was given to them!

20,000 seats x 10 games x $60 per seat = $12 million. Assuming they continue to increase prices each year at a normal interest rate, the present value of 20K extra seats over a 30-year stadium life is about $360 million. And that excludes all ancillary revenue (parking, concessions, etc).

The "cost" angle doesn't really make sense. If the Rooneys are as "money-hungry" as most think, they would have actually put MORE seats in the stadium.

[Diamond Dave]

However, knowing full well that any cost overruns would be at the Steeler expense...they got conservative, a trait they use all too well when keeping players!!!

BillvinCowbert already covered the fallacy of the cost overrun idea, but:

Tommy Maddox
Kordell Stewart
Hines Ward
Troy Polamalu
Kendall Simmons
And next year, Ben Roethlisberger.

What was that about not spending money on players?

So far, the only time the Steelers have not paid and guessed wrong was with Rod Woodson, and arguably, Gary Anderson.

[Ickster]

sorry, but I'm a ignorant outta towner....does Green Bay do a similar thing with there season tix?

Yup. They do that as well. When my nephew was born his father put his name on the list for GB tickets. He is 12 now and is still a couple thousand back in the line.

I can see a time in the not so near future when the NFL teams just go through a ticket broker like stub hub or ticketmaster. I was reading a TMQ a week or two ago and agree with his point of view. You have seen a turn in the whole scalping market. Most states have done away with any scapling laws. MN was just last year. Before that, all the viking fans would post thier tickets across the river in WI to get their money.

I can see teams getting in on the action and why shouldn't they? Why should they offer a ticket for $60, to just have someone else raise and sell their ticket for $200+ more? Teams like the Steelers, Packers, Cowboys, Patroits, Chiefs, etc would clean up.

Every team except for the Steelers and the Patroits have a way (web site) for season ticket holders to "resell" their tickets at whatever price they can get for them.

Why shouldn't the Steelers take the profits for their product instead of the ticket brokers?

Is this way off topic?

[FistfullofRings]

The ironic thing is that the best thing that could happen to those people waiting for season tickets is for the Steelers to have a string of bad seasons, like 3 or 4 in a row. People get PO'd and spitefull and suddenly demand goes way down.

Funny story, back in 1996 I went to the Steelers - Buffalo MNF game. I actually had two Bills fans ask me, in all seriousness, if there was a walk-up line to purchase tickets at the stadium or if the game was sold-out.

[Original Burghman]

Dixon Hand,

The Steelers keep more of their players than almost any other team in the NFL. We do not keep players we do not want. The "cheap" thing is a myth this century. In the nineties, it was a problem as the revenue was not there to keep the players. Those are facts...

One of the biggest issues in making the satdium seat 80 and 100 people is access and parking. I think if everyone looks at the NFL facilities that exist in downtowns, you will see they don't seat much more than 70,000. It is an infrastructure/parking issue. Our "friends" on the North Side assuredly would not want us to add anothewr 10-15,000 seats..

Peace and Merry Christmas to all...........

[THE GREAT BURGHBOY]

Every team except for the Steelers and the Patroits have a way (web site) for season ticket holders to "resell" their tickets at whatever price they can get for them.


Don't the Steelers have a "ticket exchange" thru ticketmaster? Well I've seen it advertised, but never see any tickets available in there. So it exists, but apparently there's more $ to be made in StubHub and E-Bay.

I thought I read somewhere that only 18,000 accounts hold the 65,000 season tickets. That averages out to 3.6 tickets per account. If that figure is true, I wonder how many of those 18,000 hold just 1-2 seats, and how many own 10+ or more. I would figure the accounts that hold 10 or more tickets are likely responsible for the hundreds of listings on StubHub or E-Bay. I wonder how much uproar there would be if a rule was put in place that no account could hold more than 5 seats? Would it knock down the waiting list, or would it cause even more tickets to go into the scalpers hands?

[Diamond Dave]

Don't the Steelers have a "ticket exchange" thru ticketmaster? Well I've seen it advertised, but never see any tickets available in there. So it exists, but apparently there's more $ to be made in StubHub and E-Bay.

I thought I read somewhere that only 18,000 accounts hold the 65,000 season tickets. That averages out to 3.6 tickets per account. If that figure is true, I wonder how many of those 18,000 hold just 1-2 seats, and how many own 10+ or more. I would figure the accounts that hold 10 or more tickets are likely responsible for the hundreds of listings on StubHub or E-Bay. I wonder how much uproar there would be if a rule was put in place that no account could hold more than 5 seats? Would it knock down the waiting list, or would it cause even more tickets to go into the scalpers hands?

That's an interesting viewpoint. Unfortunately I don't know if the Steelers could make any changes like that now without being sued. Cripes - look at the people that sued them because they paid for a random PSL, but didn't like where they got seated.

[bearcatsno69]

The whole seating thing makes me sick. I used to go to the games all the time at Three Rivers when I was younger and lived near the Burgh. I can rember my dad and the others doing a little lottery to see who actually got to go in and who had to watch from the bus in the parking lot. I am sick of the racket with all of the brokers. It is getting so out of hand. I got to go to my first game at Heinz field last weekend. My 9 year old has been all over me to get tickets, so I finally did it (He was getting tired off getting heckled at Paul Brown Stadium every year). It costs me $600 for 2 upper level seats. That is highway robbery. Luckily, for us Stub Hub screwed up and sent us tickets in section 134. I would try to go to more games each year, but 2 at those prices are enough. It made me sick to see the number of no shows there. We drove from Dayton through all of that shit weather to get there, and there were people in the Burgh who didn't show, because the weather was bad, or it was to cold. Give me a break. Sell your tickets at a reasonable price to those who really want them.

[CAH]

And this was just recently?

Hardly. It was in the late 80s. I had a 10 year wait exactly.

[Ickster]

The whole seating thing makes me sick. I used to go to the games all the time at Three Rivers when I was younger and lived near the Burgh. I can rember my dad and the others doing a little lottery to see who actually got to go in and who had to watch from the bus in the parking lot. I am sick of the racket with all of the brokers. It is getting so out of hand. I got to go to my first game at Heinz field last weekend. My 9 year old has been all over me to get tickets, so I finally did it (He was getting tired off getting heckled at Paul Brown Stadium every year). It costs me $600 for 2 upper level seats. That is highway robbery. Luckily, for us Stub Hub screwed up and sent us tickets in section 134. I would try to go to more games each year, but 2 at those prices are enough. It made me sick to see the number of no shows there. We drove from Dayton through all of that shit weather to get there, and there were people in the Burgh who didn't show, because the weather was bad, or it was to cold. Give me a break. Sell your tickets at a reasonable price to those who really want them.

But since you had to pay that wouldn't you want the steelers to have the money and not the brokerage? I paid $350 for two tickets at Lambeau in 05 to take my oldest to his first Steeler game. Then paid $90 for two tickets to the Viking game later that season. Granted Lambeau is a MUCH better bang for the buck, but it depends who you are playing and how the fans are in general.

Supply and demand. That is the way of the future. I better save up some more cash for my pilgramige to the motherland next year then huh?

[roethlisberger7]

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! How would you like to be me, living in this dump Seattle? Not only do they still whine about SB XL, but if I want to see the Steelers here, I would need to buy two extra game tickets. SCREW THAT!!!

[ekflinn]

Not all of the seats at Heinz Field are under a seat license. I seem to recall when the stadium was being built the Post-Gazette or the Trib did an article explaining how many were available, how many seats were covered under the licenses, how the licenses worked, etc... I also think that part of the licensing agreement requires you to purchase season tickets each year (or within a set time frame) or risk losing the ability to purchase the seats. I seriously doubt that a license holder can hold that seat in perpetuity (forever) without purchasing tickets. That is basically what the license does anyway -- it was a one-time fee giving you the right to be the first to purchase a specific seat(s). If anyone knows of the specifics of the seat licenses, I would enjoy learning more about this.

As for moving up on the season ticket holder waiting list, when I got on it in 1996 I was told it would be about twenty years until I got to the top. When Heinz Field opened, I was told it would be 15-16. When I checked this summer as to what month/year they were on, I was told April 1995, which jibes with the letter I just got with information about play-off tickets for folks on the waiting list.

As for the complaints of the initial post -- life ain't fair, accept that and life will be so much easier.

[Blind Official]

Not all of the seats at Heinz Field are under a seat license. I seem to recall when the stadium was being built the Post-Gazette or the Trib did an article explaining how many were available, how many seats were covered under the licenses, how the licenses worked, etc... I also think that part of the licensing agreement requires you to purchase season tickets each year (or within a set time frame) or risk losing the ability to purchase the seats. I seriously doubt that a license holder can hold that seat in perpetuity (forever) without purchasing tickets. That is basically what the license does anyway -- it was a one-time fee giving you the right to be the first to purchase a specific seat(s). If anyone knows of the specifics of the seat licenses, I would enjoy learning more about this.

As for moving up on the season ticket holder waiting list, when I got on it in 1996 I was told it would be about twenty years until I got to the top. When Heinz Field opened, I was told it would be 15-16. When I checked this summer as to what month/year they were on, I was told April 1995, which jibes with the letter I just got with information about play-off tickets for folks on the waiting list.

As for the complaints of the initial post -- life ain't fair, accept that and life will be so much easier.

What he said.

I got on in Jan of 1996, called this offseason (upon moving to the Burgh) and found out that they were at Jan of 1995.

One thing you guys left out though, remember that a Steeler ticket office employee was found and (i think) prosecuted for moving people to the top of the ticket list for cash under the table