Colbert: We have few, if any holes at any position..

[Super Heathen]

And will draft the best available player.

Uh-huh, right.

NFL Scouting Combine: Steelers alter their draft approach
Friday, February 22, 2008
By Paul Zeise, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
INDIANAPOLIS -- The Steelers will pick the best player available when it is their turn in April's NFL draft.

That's not exactly a stunning revelation because many teams take the "best player available" approach. But Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said yesterday it is a welcome change in their approach from years past when they went into the draft focused on filling specific needs.

Colbert said the roster is stable and has few, if any, obvious holes at any position, so the Steelers have a lot more flexibility with their pick.

"Right now, other than quarterback and tight end, two positions we're deep and very young, we could really add a player at any position and improve our team," Colbert said at the NFL Scouting Combine. "We have 22 guys from last year's team and, though we may lose a couple, we have younger guys ready to step in, so we can fill a number of spots with this draft. And I've said it a number of times -- this is a great draft to do that because there is so much depth at so many spots.

"We do [have the luxury of taking the best player available], and like I said, we're not going to take a quarterback, we're not likely to take a tight end, but we could take a player at just about any other position. We wanted to go into this draft and not be need-specific."

Because the Steelers have the 22nd pick in the draft, Colbert said, it is important for them to be flexible because it is not likely they are going to get one of the players considered a "can't miss" or "immediate impact" prospect.

That doesn't mean there won't be a lot of good players for the Steelers to choose from, particularly at some positions, such as offensive tackle, which is considered to be extremely deep. Colbert also said the Steelers will look at a number of defensive front seven players, but they are only interested in those who can play in the 4-3 and the 3-4.

"We're still committed to the 3-4, but we'll be open to guys who can play in both systems," Colbert said. "But in the short term, they will have a specific role in our current system, but they'd need to be able to make that transition if we ever do transition. We want that flexibility. The guys we want are really not scheme specific, they are good players who can fit in any scheme."

While the draft is on Colbert's mind this week because of the combine, a lot can change between now and late April because the free agent signing period begins next week.

Colbert said the Steelers' main focus now is to evaluate their free agents and decide which they can afford to and need to keep, then to look at free agents from other teams to possibly fill a need. He said the Steelers are unlikely to sign a big name free agent because it is not their way of doing business.

The Steelers began the offseason with nine potential unrestricted free agents and five potential restricted free agents but signed defensive end Travis Kirschke to a two-year deal and designated offensive tackle Max Starks with the "transition" tag.

Colbert said the team had two reasons for designating Starks, who would have become an unrestricted free agent Feb. 29, as the transition player: They have accepted that they are not going to be able to keep Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca (an unrestricted free agent) and need some stability on the offensive line. It also gives them more flexibility on draft day.

Colbert added that Starks was given the transition tag -- which gives the Steelers the right of first refusal if another team tried to sign him -- because the team will have more flexibility in negotiating with him.

The transition player is guaranteed at least a one-year deal at no less than the average salary of the 10 highest-paid players at his position, which in Starks case (offensive tackle) would be about $6.9 million. A franchise player, however, is guaranteed no less than the average salary of the five highest paid at his position, which at tackle would be about $7.5 million.

Colbert insists that the Starks deal was not motivated by left tackle Marvel Smith's back injury and said the Steelers expect Smith to make a full recovery for next season.

"The chances of signing Alan are minimal at this point, so we had to make a decision about who we could sign," Colbert said. "Our situation was clear -- Max was an unrestricted free agent, [tackle] Trai Essex is a free agent, Marvel Smith is coming off back surgery, and we just wanted to protect our interest with Max and we think he wants to stay."

There is one big-money deal the Steelers want to get down this offseason, but it doesn't involve a free agent. The team would like to finalize a long-term contract extension for quarterback Ben Roethlisberger even though he has two years remaining on his original deal. Colbert said that is likely to happen sooner rather than later.

"We are moving along. It is something that is progressing very well and we'd like to be able to finalize it," Colbert said. "But it is a big deal for him and a big deal for us. But all signs are positive that we are going to get it done."

[steelberger1]

So, if we sign Ben to a long term extension and he gets decapitated next year from lack of O-line protection, what are the Steelers on the hook for cap-wise?

[LosLos]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round

[Sean]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round

That's exactly what it is...

Nothing to see here, people. Move along.

[the Bubster]

more buffoonery coming from GM Goof. What a surprise.

Wait till he spends that second rounder on a long snapper. In fact, he may trade up to the top of rd 2 to ensure he gets the best damn long snapper in the draft.

6-10, here we come

[SteelerScott]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round

Ahhh, I can hear the collective blood-curdling scream:eek: IF we DON'T take an OLine w/ our 1st pick.
The SN board may implode.

6-10, here we come
I don't know what you're expecting, but we may be 6-10 even w/ a GOOD draft.
The Steelers are more than just 1-2 OLine from being a real contender.

[Steelhurt]

more buffoonery coming from GM Goof. What a surprise.

Wait till he spends that second rounder on a long snapper. In fact, he may trade up to the top of rd 2 to ensure he gets the best damn long snapper in the draft.

6-10, here we come

Coach, is that you?

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

The only holes are in Colbert's head if he really believes this crap he's spewing.

[FistfullofRings]

I have no problem with the BPA approach, although I think he should add LB to the list. Draft picks don't come with gaurantees, it's stupid to force your hand to draft a certain position.

And this is not a smokescreen. Do you really think that other teams are tuning in to Colbert quotes in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette two months before the draft? C'mon people!

[the Bubster]

And this is not a smokescreen. Do you really think that other teams are tuning in to Colbert quotes in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette two months before the draft? C'mon people!

you dont want the kool aid drinkers to answer that, do you?

[Vader]

That's not exactly a stunning revelation because many teams take the "best player available" approach. But Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said yesterday it is a welcome change in their approach from years past when they went into the draft focused on filling specific needs.


I need to drag up that thread about drafting for needs. Who was it that said that Steelers didn't draft for need over the past few years? I guess Colbert disagrees.

We do [have the luxury of taking the best player available], and like I said, we're not going to take a quarterback,

Also we won't take a QB.

[TDX27]

If we don't go Oline in the 1st, I will be pissed. And, we better go Oline at least another time in the next 3 rounds.

[VaSteelerFan]

Please...

Every year, the Steelers say shit like this and end up doing something different on draft day.

You really didn't expect him to come out and say, "Yes, we'll be drafting an O-lineman in the first round because our guys suck". You really want him to tell the rest of the NFL who and what position they are targeting in the draft? They asked him questions about the draft, and he gave the standard, "You don't need to know" response, and some here take his words as gospel.

[Max Power]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round

That there was my very first thought. What reason is there to sing that song: So happy together.. like we don't have an issue on the O-line?

[FistfullofRings]

If we don't go Oline in the 1st, I will be pissed. And, we better go Oline at least another time in the next 3 rounds.


So... if 7 OLs are drafted in the first 20 picks, and then the team drafting before us reaches for the 8th, you say we then take the 9th OL? Even if the 2nd best CB, RB, DL, etc. prospect in the draft is still available?

[360x]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round


Actually, I think he's got to take an olineman AT LEAST in one the first 2 rounds. There's not a lot of difference between the 4th and the 8th olineman in my mildly informed mind. I could actually see the steelers passing on online in the 1st round if certain tackles are off the board. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they went Dline in the 1st and Oline in the second. I just can't imagine them going 2 rounds without picking an Olineman. Also... I got a sneaky feeling they may sacrifice a 3rd and more to move up in the 1st (Or top of the second round) and take the Olineman they want (No matter how much I hope they don't trade away any more picks).

[Turbo Pig]

When it comes to OL at the end of the first round, its a crap shoot... I think we need 3 OL's in the this draft and one of them on day 1... Doesn't matter to me if its in the first or second round... A second round OL and late first round OL have nearly identical success rates in the NFL... Once you get outside the top 10, you can't just say, we are taking an OL... I mean look at Minnesota... they didn't need a RB at all last year, but Adrian Peterson fell into their laps and they took him, and rightfully so... So lets not implode if we find a nice steal in the first and take an OL in the second...

[the Bubster]

A second round OL and late first round OL have nearly identical success rates in the NFL...

those types of stats make for a good read, but i'd be more interested in knowing colbert's success rate with his first rd ol selections and his 2nd rd or later selections. Judging by his track record of drafting olineman, I would have to say colbert should draft an olineman at the highest spot he can. He doesnt seem to have a good eye for evaluating oline talent. I have zero confidence colbert can afford to pass on a prospect because he has the ability to pluck a gem in later rounds. all smoke screens aside.

[Steelerman]

So... if 7 OLs are drafted in the first 20 picks, and then the team drafting before us reaches for the 8th, you say we then take the 9th OL? Even if the 2nd best CB, RB, DL, etc. prospect in the draft is still available?

This pretty much sums it up. There is no need to reach for a player in round #1 who can easily be had in round #2, just for the sake of filling a need.

[McBane]

I think he should have said "We're taking an offensive tackle. No doubt."

[Steelz]

I guess he also feels that our 32 yr. old (soon to be 33 at start of season) starting cornerback is capable of holding down the fort again too.

[Spike]

ho ho ho

"Best available player"

Smokescreen

[thatrain]

I guess he also feels that our 32 yr. old (soon to be 33 at start of season) starting cornerback is capable of holding down the fort again too.

I don't have any problem with Deshea's play, and I feel pretty confident with McFadden and, to a lesser extent, Gay backing him up.

[thatrain]

more buffoonery coming from GM Goof. What a surprise.

Wait till he spends that second rounder on a long snapper. In fact, he may trade up to the top of rd 2 to ensure he gets the best damn long snapper in the draft.

6-10, here we come

Ugh, you just live for the attention don't you. You can't possibly be that big of a tool for any other reason.

[the Bubster]

Ugh, you just live for the attention don't you. You can't possibly be that big of a tool for any other reason.

yeah, you are right, my bad. Colbert is the best damn GM in the business, that is why we always have the best damn players, and of course, we always have the best damn coach, but we only won one SB in the last 27 years because.....because....help me out here...if everything is so hunky dory, then why we only have one SB win in the last 27 years?

Can you explain that?

[Spike]

Where were you when the Steelers won SB XL?
Cheering on the Browns, Gals, Ratbirds?

[thatrain]

Colbert hasn't been the GM for 27 years.

And perhaps he's not the best GM, but what exactly would you have us do? Just fire every guy that doesn't instantly transform the team? Newsflash: not the best, but still way above average. We haven't won a super bowl every year which is I'm sure your expectation, but we have consistantly been a playoff team under his watch.

Get some perspective.

[the Bubster]

Where were you when the Steelers won SB XL?
Cheering on the Browns, Gals, Ratbirds?

dont be ridiculous. There isnt anything more silly than posts questioning one's fandom.

Newsflash: This is the offseason. This isnt the time for cheering. No games are being played. None. This is the time for taking a good look at the team, evauluating players and needs and making tough decisions about who goes and who stays. I simply dont like the direction the team is taking under colbert, who if taken at his word, sees no holes on the team. For a team that had the 5th best record in their conference and lost an opening round playoff game, I find it incredibly stupid that the man in charge of bringing in the talent doesnt see any weaknesses.

[Spike]

Bullshit.

I say you're a Pats troll. You've done nothing but shit on every Steelers player and coach since you got here. All in everyone's else's threads.

Prove me wrong. Get down on your knees and suck some Tomlin cock right now.

[the Bubster]

Bull.

I say you're a Pats troll. You've done nothing but on every Steelers player and coach since you got here. All in everyone's else's threads.

Prove me wrong. Get down on your knees and suck some Tomlin right now.

I've already bashed tomlin. Fact is, I seen better coaches in the WPIAL patroling the sidelines in JV games than him.

but hey, he is full of cliche's. and dont ever....EVER..forget the more violent team always wins, because he dont throw pity parties, because they are who they are, and it is what it is and they wont be defined by one game because they will get back to work because they aint done writing their story. No siree.

[thatrain]

dont be ridiculous. There isnt anything more silly than posts questioning one's fandom.

Newsflash: This is the offseason. This isnt the time for cheering. No games are being played. None. This is the time for taking a good look at the team, evauluating players and needs and making tough decisions about who goes and who stays. I simply dont like the direction the team is taking under colbert, who if taken at his word, sees no holes on the team. For a team that had the 5th best record in their conference and lost an opening round playoff game, I find it incredibly stupid that the man in charge of bringing in the talent doesnt see any weaknesses.

Don't ever, ever, ever judge a team official in this league based on what he says in the papers (unless of course what he says is entirely inflamitory, stupid, etc.) Judge only by the actions they make. Everything said to the media is smokescreen.

As for the direction this team has taken under Colbert, would that be the direction that has seen us in the playoffs what? 6 times in his 8 years or so, with 3 AFCCG appearances and a super bowl win? I guess that's just what is expected.

[Spike]

I've already bashed tomlin. Fact is, I seen better coaches in the WPIAL patroling the sidelines in JV games than him


So you admit you're a troll.

Maybe we need a poll.

[Sean]

the Bubster's routine is getting pretty damn old with me...

He's like Debbie Downer from SNL. And yes, Spike...he's a troll.

[the Bubster]

So you admit you're a troll.

Maybe we need a poll.

nope, I just admit to thinking tomlin is in over his head and a stupidass. Losses to the Jets, denver, allowing whiz to stick his foot up his ass, allowing Garrard and the warm weather fgas...errrr, Jags, roll into the burgh in Dec and january and smashmouth in to the ground. Poor red flag challenges all year, piss poor in game adjustments, and overall standing there on the sidelines with that deer in the headlights look. but hey, he is a steeler coach so he must be good. Sorry, I used to think that way when I was 13. Now that i'm in my 30's, i'm mature enough to look at things objectively.

As for the Pats, I hate them as much as the next guy. If I were a pats fan, I would admit it, in case you forgot, their success has beeen off the charts as of late. Alot tougher to be a steeler fan.

but hey, go ahead with your poll.

[60 MINUTES]

Don't ever, ever, ever judge a team official in this league based on what he says in the papers (unless of course what he says is entirely inflamitory, stupid, etc.) Judge only by the actions they make. Everything said to the media is smokescreen.

As for the direction this team has taken under Colbert, would that be the direction that has seen us in the playoffs what? 6 times in his 8 years or so, with 3 AFCCG appearances and a super bowl win? I guess that's just what is expected.



Although alot on this board love to hate him I actually think the above statement you made is as much a credit to cowher as it is to Colbert. As a matter of fact I think Cowher called more of the shots. They will tell you they both worked together well but I think the Rooneys gave Cowher the power when they brought Colbert in, its exactly why Cowher and whats his face that went to the bills parted ways. The rooneys chose Cowher ( Brain fart on the name of last GM, I've got to get off these drugs man, what the fuck is his name.

Anyway that being said I think this is a smokescreen for sure. Anyone that would draft something like a RB or WR or FS with the first pick when you at this time only have ESSEX and and very hurt SMITH back would be a fucking idiot. Colon I'm counting as a guard.

So is it a smoke screen hell yeah


Last thought:::: I actually believe that taking the best player only works if you just won the superbowl or made the Championship game and no one is getting to old and no one is leaving for FA. Other wise that is a crock of shit.

Picking the best player makes you the Raiders point blank. This is what they do and thats is why they suck shit. At least they suck shit when there cap is shot. If they have no money to buy a team because of the cap and have to depend on the draft then its game over for them. Other teams do the same thing, its stupid as shit. If you have Randy Moss and Chris Carter and Calvin Johnson falls to you in the draft you DO NOT TAKE THE GUY. Stupid. First off how can you pay all of them and second there is just not enough balls to go around, not to mention you just don't need him.

You always take what your team needs, If you don't and just select the best player then you will end up after 4 or 5 years needing a shit load of stuff.

Steelers need O-line and D -line you can really only count on 3 guys if your lucky to pick probowl type players,

SO with your first three picks you get TWO O-line and one D line. after thet you really have to be lucky as shit to get a big time starter in this league.

Next year we look at the FS spot and maybe WR and CB depending on if we keep MCfadden or not.

YOU DRAFT WHAT YOU NEED PERIOD. Unless you win the superbowl and are not getting old or losing anyone in the off season.

[thatrain]

Although alot on this board love to hate him I actually think the above statement you made is as much a credit to cowher as it is to Colbert. As a matter of fact I think Cowher called more of the shots. They will tell you they both worked together well but I think the Rooneys gave Cowher the power when they brought Colbert in, its exactly why Cowher and whats his face that went to the bills parted ways. The rooneys chose Cowher ( Brain fart on the name of last GM, I've got to get off these drugs man, what the fuck is his name.

I'll agree that it's a credit to Cowher as well, but it's awfully hard to distinguish the achievements of the two over the same timeframe.

[60 MINUTES]

nope, I just admit to thinking tomlin is in over his head and a stupidass. Losses to the Jets, denver, allowing whiz to stick his foot up his ass, allowing Garrard and the warm weather fgas...errrr, Jags, roll into the burgh in Dec and january and smashmouth in to the ground. Poor red flag challenges all year, piss poor in game adjustments, and overall standing there on the sidelines with that deer in the headlights look. but hey, he is a steeler coach so he must be good. Sorry, I used to think that way when I was 13. Now that i'm in my 30's, i'm mature enough to look at things objectively.

As for the Pats, I hate them as much as the next guy. If I were a pats fan, I would admit it, in case you forgot, their success has beeen off the charts as of late. Alot tougher to be a steeler fan.

but hey, go ahead with your poll.


I get what your saying here but at the same time you have to look ahead. I know this is a win now league and you would want the person you hire to come in and be perfect in all areas but if your upside is worth waiting on then maybe you take a chance.

WITH tomlin I think this guy will really bloom over the next 3 ro 4 years.

Was he a deer in headlights this year? Yes. DID he need to learn the game mgm part of it? YES. Did he pull the strings and take the lead as to how he wants to run this team? NO NOT YET

But I really think he will take control and start doing it his way over the next few years. Its The only way he will be great. He can't be TONY D, and he can't just watch and not put his twist on things. that being said look for the guy to take over soon.

Its fair to say he was just wanting to make sure he didn't fuck up to bad last year. and his age though he is very mature for it is still very young. To come in and Coach the steelers and follow Cowher and NOLL not to mention being BLACK which is some pressure as well is a alot for a early 30's guy.

Again I understand this is a multi million dollar sport and most thinking would be you should bring in a guy that can handle and do anything for a team such as the steelers. One of the BEST jobs in sports you would think you could just about pick anyone. However I say again, I believe with everything Tomlin is already it is worth giving him the job and waiting on him to get where we and the steelers need him to get. How long will that be, would be the arguement? I really believe you will see it very soon.]


This year look for him to mgm the game 100 times better, by the start of next season look for Tomlin to put his stamp on the team. 4-3 is probably were he will start and this draft if we take a DE-DL high may show more signs of going that way.

The guy is just to good of a motivate Speaker and accordiing to players that played for him in the past, this guy knows football and schemes as good as anyone they have ever been around. It all leads to being great, I really think we will see that.

However at this point you are correct he is in a growing process.

[60 MINUTES]

I'll agree that it's a credit to Cowher as well, but it's awfully hard to distinguish the achievements of the two over the same timeframe.



I AGREE WITH THAT.

[CoolieMan]

dont be ridiculous. There isnt anything more silly than posts questioning one's fandom.
Newsflash: This is the offseason. This isnt the time for cheering. No games are being played. None. This is the time for taking a good look at the team, evauluating players and needs and making tough decisions about who goes and who stays. I simply dont like the direction the team is taking under colbert, who if taken at his word, sees no holes on the team. For a team that had the 5th best record in their conference and lost an opening round playoff game, I find it incredibly stupid that the man in charge of bringing in the talent doesnt see any weaknesses.

except for anything you post

[Kdiddy71]

[QUOTE=60 MINUTES;73858]Picking the best player makes you the Raiders point blank. This is what they do and thats is why they suck .


Excellent point

Colbert said this same sh*t last year and picked based on need....he picked two OLBs for a reason. What are the chances two high round picks will busts? ..lucky for us Woodley already steped up and who knows, that Timmons guy might be good as well.

OL and DL will be addressed early, take it to the bank and cash it.

[Supersteeler]

nope, I just admit to thinking tomlin is in over his head and a stupidass. Losses to the Jets, denver, allowing whiz to stick his foot up his ass, allowing Garrard and the warm weather fgas...errrr, Jags, roll into the burgh in Dec and january and smashmouth in to the ground. Poor red flag challenges all year, piss poor in game adjustments, and overall standing there on the sidelines with that deer in the headlights look. but hey, he is a steeler coach so he must be good. Sorry, I used to think that way when I was 13. Now that i'm in my 30's, i'm mature enough to look at things objectively.

As for the Pats, I hate them as much as the next guy. If I were a pats fan, I would admit it, in case you forgot, their success has beeen off the charts as of late. Alot tougher to be a steeler fan.

but hey, go ahead with your poll.

So what NFL team are you a GM or Head Coach for again? Thought so dumbass. You are not smarter than a single person who works ANYWHERE in the NFL. That includes waterboys and chain movers. You are deluded by yourself.

[the Bubster]

shut up asshole. you one of the tiddly winkers around here. You cant see anything objectively. Maybe if you'd take your firmly planted lips of tomlin's ass, you'll see things better

[TMC]

On drafting Heath Miller:

Kevin Colbert: We are very pleased to announce our first-round pick, Health Miller, from the University of Virginia. We have had our eye on Heath throughout this whole process. It was just a situation where we were going to monitor it, and see who was going to be the best player available. He definitely filled that bill, and we are very happy he is joining the Steelers.

Which brings us to 2004 and the Steelers’ latest first-round prize, the big quarterback from Miami of Ohio. How does Pittsburgh’s book of fortune read on Big Ben? Kevin Colbert, the team’s Director of Football Operations, says the Steelers drew a winner.

“Roethlisberger has as much size, strength and ability as any quarterback in the draft, with plenty of upside,” Colbert said. “What impressed us most was the big game he had in the MAC championship. A bad weather game, the kind that can make quarterbacks fall apart. But Ben played right through it and put on a show.

“We’re excited,” Colbert said. “We think this kid’s potential is
unlimited. I don’t even think he’s scratched the surface yet. . . . He
hasn’t peaked yet. We’re excited when he does peak, he’s going to be a
Steeler.”
They plan to have Roethlisberger spend one year behind Maddox
and/or Charlie Batch and then move into the starting job in 2005, simi-
lar to what Cincinnati has done with the No. 1 overall pick last year,
Carson Palmer.
“This is a good situation to be in because of the veterans we have
in front of him,” coach Bill Cowher said, “because of the veterans we
have on our offensive football team.
“If there is a situation for a young quarterback to not come in and
feel the pressures of having to turn a football team around, we think
this is one of those situations that exists.”

“It’s good to get players at two positions where we need young
depth,” Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said of
the picks after Roethlisberger, “and both Ricardo and Max filled that
for us.”


Colbert states drafting two players for depth is a need.

If that is a need, then every season we "need" a player at every position, because I can tell you this, at NO position are we two deep and talented enough to run through another team.

And, someone PLEASE show me how Spaeth was a need pick last season.....not a depth (3rd string) need of youth, but an actual, I have a damn gaping hole here need.

[the Bubster]

Spaeth is a dime-a-dozen talent. The undrafted free agent pool is littered every year with clumsy athletes who cant block a tackling dummy.

[TMC]

Spaeth is a dime-a-dozen talent. The undrafted free agent pool is littered every year with clumsy athletes who cant block a tackling dummy.

And the point you are making would be?

[the Bubster]

And the point you are making would be?

no need spending a 3rd rd'er on a type of athlete that can be had scouring the undrafted free agent pool

[TMC]

no need spending a 3rd rd'er on a type of athlete that can be had scouring the undrafted free agent pool

If the Steelers would have drafted Todd FUCKING HEAP in the 3rd round, it would not have changed what this thread is about.

It was about whether they are drafting for need or BPA. While I understand Colbert states he was filling needs, they were not holes in the starting lineup. So, who they drafted is irrelevant.

[Stlrs4Life]

Colbert better be using the "best available player" thing as a smokescreen. He's got to take an o-lineman in the first round


I hear ya. But I have this sick feeling in my stomach that they will not go that route.

[Supersteeler]

shut up asshole. you one of the tiddly winkers around here. You cant see anything objectively. Maybe if you'd take your firmly planted lips of tomlin's ass, you'll see things better

You're just another in a long line of know-it-all wannabe GM's that have come and gone around here. My only consolation is that your kind never last long, I've seen 50 just like you disappear since I've been here. You come around acting all elitist until you eventually have to run with your tail between your legs from getting ragged on every day. If you are this annoying and unlikable in real life I feel sorry for everyone you know.

Once again, what team do you work for if you're such a genius? I'm not the one making ridiculous statements with every post and sounding like complete douche....that would be you.

[SteelerFan448]

I hear ya. But I have this sick feeling in my stomach that they will not go that route.

If we're down to the 5th or 6th best tackle though, wouldn't you rather take a better player at a different position?

[kurtistb]

You're just another in a long line of know-it-all wannabe GM's that have come and gone around here. My only consolation is that your kind never last long, I've seen 50 just like you disappear since I've been here. You come around acting all elitist until you eventually have to run with your tail between your legs from getting ragged on every day. If you are this annoying and unlikable in real life I feel sorry for everyone you know.

Once again, what team do you work for if you're such a genius? I'm not the one making ridiculous statements with every post and sounding like complete douche....that would be you.

Thats why I wrote him off from the very beginning.

[CoolieMan]

shut up asshole. you one of the tiddly winkers around here. You cant see anything objectively. Maybe if you'd take your firmly planted lips of tomlin's ass, you'll see things better

sounds like someone just has a axe to grind...probably you just hate blacks...fucking racist...

[Hollywood Bags]

Seriously what do you expect Colbert to say, he is responsible for all the players on the team and if he gives a true state of the union on the talent level of the OLine, etc. it is a serious indictment of his ability to draft and keep replinishing the OLIne,.

As for Tomlin, he was good but n ot great in his first year but he took an underachieving team from a possible HOF coach and actually won 2 more games with a worse Oline . I think he grows as he gets more experience and becomes a great coach, at least as good as Cowher and hopefully much tougher, keeps a more disciplined team and doesn't pamper the vets.

[Super Heathen]

shut up asshole. you one of the tiddly winkers around here. You cant see anything objectively. Maybe if you'd take your firmly planted lips of tomlin's ass, you'll see things better

What is this, amateur hour? Colbert is something like 58-25 since becoming GM. Add 3 AFCCG's and a fucking SB!

Yes, let's sweat a 7th rounder for Rossum and sundry other issues that are as important as your alleged cranium.

Fucking troll.

[Turbo Pig]

Spaeth is one of the worst picks in Steeler history.... You can find an exact replica all over the unsigned lists that will play for one year contracts at min salary...

[Chicoman]

And will draft the best available player.

Uh-huh, right.

NFL Scouting Combine: Steelers alter their draft approach
Friday, February 22, 2008
By Paul Zeise, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
INDIANAPOLIS -- The Steelers will pick the best player available when it is their turn in April's NFL draft.

That's not exactly a stunning revelation because many teams take the "best player available" approach. But Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said yesterday it is a welcome change in their approach from years past when they went into the draft focused on filling specific needs.

Colbert said the roster is stable and has few, if any, obvious holes at any position, so the Steelers have a lot more flexibility with their pick.




I'm glad the O-line has been repaired I was a little worried after last season's performance. Ben should only get sacked 45 times this year.

BRILLIANT!!!

[Supersteeler]

Spaeth is one of the worst picks in Steeler history.... You can find an exact replica all over the unsigned lists that will play for one year contracts at min salary...

I'd beg to differ with that. A third round pick who caught 3 or 4 TD's.....where you a Steeler fan for Scott Shields....Jamain Stephens.....Kris Farris? Spaeth doesn't even rank in the top 30 worst draft picks we've ever had.

[Penguins Fan]

Colbert is no dummy. He knows where the weaknesses are on the team.

[Chicoman]

I'd beg to differ with that. A third round pick who caught 3 or 4 TD's.....where you a Steeler fan for Scott Shields....Jamain Stephens.....Kris Farris? Spaeth doesn't even rank in the top 30 worst draft picks we've ever had.

Don't knock Jamain Stephens he was never used properly in Pittsburgh! ;)

He could have been the first Steelers sideline fashion model and paved the way for guys like Duce Staley & Lee Mays.

[Blind Official]

If the Steelers would have drafted Todd ING HEAP in the 3rd round, it would not have changed what this thread is about.

It was about whether they are drafting for need or BPA. While I understand Colbert states he was filling needs, they were not holes in the starting lineup. So, who they drafted is irrelevant.

I don't follow that line of thinking, and you and I have gone around and around about things like this.

"Need" doesn't necessarily equal replacing a starter, IMO.

BPA is a moving target anyway. i'd rather Colbert pay attention to VALUE, which he doesn't do.

Value tells you that Timmons isn't worth the pick. It's possible to convince yourself that he's BPA, no matter what else is going on around you. Tunnel-vision

[Blind Official]

I'd beg to differ with that. A third round pick who caught 3 or 4 TD's.....where you a Steeler fan for Scott Shields....Jamain Stephens.....Kris Farris? Spaeth doesn't even rank in the top 30 worst draft picks we've ever had.

3 or 4 TD's mean something?

wow.

[VaSteelerFan]

more buffoonery coming from GM Goof. What a surprise.

6-10, here we come


Bubster wants the GM of the Steelers to provide a full draft outline for the benefit of the fans. Who cares if the rest of the NFL would be listening. How long have you been a Steeler fan? 6 months? If you had been a fan for any more than that, you would already know that EVERY year, they say the same damn thing regardless of if they are going to target a certain position or not.

Its fucking common sense to not give the rest of the league any clue on what you are gonna do. To say you are happy with your offensive line is just an attempt to maybe cause other teams to think they might go another route. Maybe he should have started giving out the names on their short list of wants. Would that make you happy?

However, if there is a best player available that they had ranked really high and he drops? They might take him.

You are a fucking moron.

[Supersteeler]

3 or 4 TD's mean something?

wow.

For a 3rd Rounder someone is claiming is the worst pick ever...sure. The quote I was responding to was that he was "The worst draft pick in Steelers history" Would you say that he's worse that say a 1st or 2nd Round pick that barely touched the field in his entire career? If you are at all objective, you'll see that it is a ridiculous statement. I never claimed that he was a great player..

[the Bubster]

Bubster wants the GM of the Steelers to provide a full draft outline for the benefit of the fans. Who cares if the rest of the NFL would be listening. How long have you been a Steeler fan? 6 months? If you had been a fan for any more than that, you would already know that EVERY year, they say the same damn thing regardless of if they are going to target a certain position or not.

Its ing common sense to not give the rest of the league any clue on what you are gonna do. To say you are happy with your offensive line is just an attempt to maybe cause other teams to think they might go another route. Maybe he should have started giving out the names on their short list of wants. Would that make you happy?

However, if there is a best player available that they had ranked really high and he drops? They might take him.

You are a ing moron.

yeah, the rest of the league is too dumb to see through Colbert's smoke. That smoke he laid down is too thick.

Seriously, listen up you tiddly winker. Your better GM's in this league do their homework, and they have some actual foresight into what other teams are doing. Colbert aint fooling anyone. The only fool is colbert.

[VaSteelerFan]

So again, you wanted him to come out and say, "We're gonna go O-Line in the first two rounds and we really like _____ and ______"?

Shut up son.

[Supersteeler]

So again, you wanted him to come out and say, "We're gonna go O-Line in the first two rounds and we really like _____ and ______"?

Shut up son.


Yeah cause that would be like so smart and shit, lol

[the Bubster]

So again, you wanted him to come out and say, "We're gonna go O-Line in the first two rounds and we really like _____ and ______"?

Shut up son.

c'mon man, you yourself could look at the first rd, look who is drafting a handful of spots in front of the steelers, determine those teams needs, and get an idea of what direction they MAY be going. GM's run numerous mock draft scenarios as a part of their preparation for draft day. This isnt anything new. Only some fool like you would think colbert got the whole nfl bamboozled with some vague talk.

Seriously, get a grip on reality. Keep your foolish pretenses for your fantasy league draft.

[CaptainJack]

Bubster is over the top with his hatred of Colbert, but he's not all wrong.

Colbert has a pretty damn good track record on first day draft picks. Unfortunately, his second day picks are usually practice squaders or camp casualties.
Donahoe rolled the dice a bit too much with first day picks and was very hit or miss, but he did a damn good job of finding depth and future talent with the Steelers second day picks.

IMO, in a perfect world Colbert would make the call on day one of the draft and turn it over to Donahoe on day two.

I hope that Colbert wakes up one of these years and devotes more of his time and scouting resources to potential day two prospects instead of devoting all of them to the top 100 prospects and treating picks 4 - 7 as throwaways.

The Steelers lack of depth at almost every position is starting to become a really big problem.

[Steeltime]

It seems that OL and DL are the picks that can turn out to be productive players in rounds 4 and later.

Most teams, including the Steelers, have starters and significant contributors on offensive and defensive lines taken in the later rounds: A. Smith, Keisel, Kemoeatu, Colon, 4 of the 8 projected starters on the line taken in the 4th round or later.

[VaSteelerFan]

c'mon man, you yourself could look at the first rd, look who is drafting a handful of spots in front of the steelers, determine those teams needs, and get an idea of what direction they MAY be going. GM's run numerous mock draft scenarios as a part of their preparation for draft day. This isnt anything new. Only some fool like you would think colbert got the whole nfl bamboozled with some vague talk.

Seriously, get a grip on reality. Keep your foolish pretenses for your fantasy league draft.


And how many mock drafts ever turn out to be accurate?

The key is "MAY be going" just as you said. Why tell them and eliminate even the slightest doubt?

Again, dumbass, you are bitching at the GM of one of the most successful franchises in the NFL for not being specific enough for you when talking about an upcoming NFL draft.

Brilliant!!

[TMC]

Bubster is over the top with his hatred of Colbert, but he's not all wrong.

Colbert has a pretty damn good track record on first day draft picks. Unfortunately, his second day picks are usually practice squaders or camp casualties.
Donahoe rolled the dice a bit too much with first day picks and was very hit or miss, but he did a damn good job of finding depth and future talent with the Steelers second day picks.

IMO, in a perfect world Colbert would make the call on day one of the draft and turn it over to Donahoe on day two.

I hope that Colbert wakes up one of these years and devotes more of his time and scouting resources to potential day two prospects instead of devoting all of them to the top 100 prospects and treating picks 4 - 7 as throwaways.

The Steelers lack of depth at almost every position is starting to become a really big problem.

Actually, that is not as accurate as many here think. Donahue had a few 2nd day guys, but there were not as many as everyone thinks. Colbert has had 8 drafts.....so lets look at the LAST 8 drafts of the Steelers PRE-Colbert. I am only going to look at the 2nd day and I am only going to list the guys I feel were busts. It gives you a bust/non-bust line...because I may feel a backup was a bust while some will state he served a backup role. An example, I won't argue that Jim Miller did not get a chance to start, but, in essence, he never had an impact, so I feel he would be a bust. He gets listed as a non-bust because he did backup here, saw a start, and bounced around the league. Here is the list:

1999 4 Aaron Smith DE
5 Jerame Tuman TE
5 Malcolm Johnson WR bust
7 Antonio Dingle DT bust
7 Chad Kelsay LB bust
7 Kris Brown K
1998 4 Deshea Townsend DB
4 Carlos King RB bust
5 Jason Simmons DB bust
6 Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala RB
6 Ryan Olson DT bust
7 Angel Rubio DT bust
1997 5 George Jones RB bust
6 Daryl Porter DB bust
6 Rod Manuel DE bust
7 Michael Adams WR bust
1996 4 Earl Holmes LB
4 Jahine Arnold WR bust
5 Israel Raybon DE bust
6 Orpheus Roye DE
6 Spence Fischer QB bust
7 Carlos Emmons LB
1995 4 Oliver Gibson DE
4 Donta Jones LB bust
5 Lethon Flowers DB
5 Lance Brown DB bust
6 Barron Miles DB bust
7 Henry Bailey WR bust
7 Cole Ford K bust
1994 4 Taase Faumui DE bust
5 Myron Bell DB
5 Gary Brown T bust
6 Jim Miller QB
6 Eric Ravotti LB bust
7 Brice Abrams RB bust
1993 4 Kevin Henry DE
5 Lonnie Palelei G bust
5 Marc Woodard LB bust
6 Willie Williams DB
7 Jeff Zgonina DT bust
7 Craig Keith TE bust
8 Alex Van Pelt QB bust
1992 4 Charles Davenport WR bust
5 Alan Haller DB bust
7 Russ Campbell TE bust
7 Scottie Graham RB bust
8 Darren Perry DB
8 Hesham Ismail G bust
8 Nate Williams DT bust
9 Elnardo Webster LB bust
10 Mike Saunders RB bust
11 Kendall Gammon G bust
12 Cornelius Benton QB bust

On that whole list, there are a mere handful of guys that make you state he was a really good player. Other than Aaron Smith, I do not see another Pro Bowl guy. And, there are 38 picks listed as busts out of the total 53. That is a 71% bust rate.

To compare to Colbert......

2007 4 Daniel Sepulveda P
4 Ryan McBean DE bust
5 Cameron Stephenson G bust
5 William Gay DB
7 Dallas Baker WR bust
2006 4 Willie Colon G
4 Orien Harris DT bust
5 Omar Jacobs QB bust
5 Charles Davis TE bust
6 Marvin Philip C bust
7 Cedric Humes RB bust
2005 4 Fred Gibson WR bust
5 Rian Wallace LB bust
6 Chris Kemoeatu G
7 Shaun Nua DE bust
7 Noah Herron RB
2004 5 Nathaniel Adibi DE bust
6 Bo Lacy T bust
6 Matt Kranchick TE bust
6 Drew Caylor C bust
7 Eric Taylor DT bust
2003 4 Ivan Taylor DB
5 Brian St. Pierre QB bust
7 J.T. Wall RB bust
2002 4 Larry Foote LB
5 Verron Haynes RB
6 Lee Mays WR bust
7 LaVar Glover DB bust
7 Brett Keisel DE
2001 4 Mathias Nkwenti T bust
5 Chukky Okabi C
6 Rodney Bailey DE bust
6 Roger Knight LB bust
7 Chris Taylor WR bust
2000 4 Danny Farmer WR bust
5 Clark Haggans LB
5 Tee Martin QB bust
6 Chris Combs DE bust
6 Jason Gavadza TE bust

Colbert had 39 picks. Now, I listed some of his picks last year as busts, even though they could still develop. If I had evaluated Townsend after his first season, he would have been a bust.....but he ended up being a quality player. I also did not bust Haynes and Okobi because I think both were backups and played roles. I often think that they were gone more because of a change in philosophy and staff than overall talent. I busted Bailey even though he traveled around as a backup some.....his early career injury caused his career to dive. Anyway......even though a few can be argued, of Colbert's 39 picks, I considered 28 to be busts. His bust rate is 71.7%

IMO, the difference between the two guys is Donahue had one or two develop into really elite players. Now, if Ike Taylor makes a Pro Bowl or two, they even up. Colbert simply crushes Donahue in the 1st and 2nd round though.

[VaSteelerFan]

Bubster is over the top with his hatred of Colbert, but he's not all wrong.

Colbert has a pretty damn good track record on first day draft picks. Unfortunately, his second day picks are usually practice squaders or camp casualties.
Donahoe rolled the dice a bit too much with first day picks and was very hit or miss, but he did a damn good job of finding depth and future talent with the Steelers second day picks.

IMO, in a perfect world Colbert would make the call on day one of the draft and turn it over to Donahoe on day two.

I hope that Colbert wakes up one of these years and devotes more of his time and scouting resources to potential day two prospects instead of devoting all of them to the top 100 prospects and treating picks 4 - 7 as throwaways.

The Steelers lack of depth at almost every position is starting to become a really big problem.


Yes, but the Steelers have had pretty good teams since he took over. It is hard for a 2nd day pick to make the cut. How many players made the Pats team this past year? I think I heard 1 somewhere (could be wrong though).

If we're talking the Browns cutting their 2nd day picks, then I would agree with you. There is only 50 spots on the team.

[Blind Official]

For a 3rd Rounder someone is claiming is the worst pick ever...sure. The quote I was responding to was that he was "The worst draft pick in Steelers history" Would you say that he's worse that say a 1st or 2nd Round pick that barely touched the field in his entire career? If you are at all objective, you'll see that it is a ridiculous statement. I never claimed that he was a great player..

I get that (and agree that it's ridiculous to call Spaeth the worst pick ever at this point), BUT...

Scott Shields didn't wash out after his first year. In fact, he had 4 INTs (which is probably comparable to your Spaeth attempt.

Stephens and Farris also had their flashes. At this point, I don't think that you can argue that Spaeth DOESN'T deserve to be labelled with those guys.

Now, Jeremy Staat might be another story...

[pourman]

IMO, the difference between the two guys is Donahue had one or two develop into really elite players. Now, if Ike Taylor makes a Pro Bowl or two, they even up. Colbert simply crushes Donahue in the 1st and 2nd round though. And in UDFAs which IMO is also part of draft strategy......ProBowlers Willie Parker and James Harrison for example.

[BillvinCowbert]

IMO, the difference between the two guys is Donahue had one or two develop into really elite players. Now, if Ike Taylor makes a Pro Bowl or two, they even up. Colbert simply crushes Donahue in the 1st and 2nd round though.

And the 3rd round:

Donahoe
Steed
Hastings
Gildon
Bam Morris
Stai
Conley
Witman
Wiggins
Vrabel
Conrad
Ward
Porter
Farris
Zereoue

Colbert
Clancy
Poteat
Hope
Starks
Essex
Smith
Reid
Spaeth


HUGE difference there.

Also, the Steelers have done well in UDFA... Parker, Harrison, Washington, et al. Guys like this are gems located by scouts. Granted, Colbert has to agree to sign them, but it's not he's discovering these guys. If HE knew they were so good, he wouldn't have risked letting them get to UDFA. Hell, we drafted Drew Caylor in 2004, a damn long snapper, so it's not like he was that sold on the upside of Parker.

[Blind Official]

And in UDFAs which IMO is also part of draft strategy......ProBowlers Willie Parker and James Harrison for example.

Can you really call an undrafted player part of a "draft strategy"?

[Steeltime]

In evaluating Donahoe's second day picks, it is imperative to remember that the Steelers had a lot of free agents leave during his term (O'Donnell, Thigpen, Lake, etc.).

That resulted in a LOT of compensatory picks, with the result being probably twice as many selections in rounds 4-7 than Colbert had available.

Also, Donahoe drafted before the draft was reduced to 7 rounds. The result is that he had A TON MORE SELECTIONS IN THE LATER ROUNDS.

That is critical, since later round picks tend to be boom-or-bust. They fell for a reason (Ward - too slow, not enough time at WR; Gildon and Porter - tweeners, etc.). Having 40 such picks, rather than 20, will result in a hell of a lot more "winners."

[Blind Official]

In evaluating Donahoe's second day picks, it is imperative to remember that the Steelers had a lot of free agents leave during his term (O'Donnell, Thigpen, Lake, etc.).

That resulted in a LOT of compensatory picks, with the result being probably twice as many selections in rounds 4-7 than Colbert had available.

That is a very good point and should not be discounted. That's a big deal.

Also, Donahoe drafted before the draft was reduced to 7 rounds. The result is that he had A TON MORE SELECTIONS IN THE LATER ROUNDS.

Right, so his "number of busts" factor should be higher on Day 2 because he had a bunch of extra bottom of the barrel picks.

That is critical, since later round picks tend to be boom-or-bust. They fell for a reason (Ward - too slow, not enough time at WR; Gildon and Porter - tweeners, etc.). Having 40 such picks, rather than 20, will result in a hell of a lot more "winners."

...and a hell of a lot more losers. The players you mention were smack dab in the middle of the draft though (3rd rounders and such).

[TMC]

And the 3rd round:

Donahoe
Steed
Hastings
Gildon
Bam Morris
Stai
Conley
Witman
Wiggins
Vrabel
Conrad
Ward
Porter
Farris
Zereoue

Colbert
Clancy
Poteat
Hope
Starks
Essex
Smith
Reid
Spaeth


HUGE difference there.

Also, the Steelers have done well in UDFA... Parker, Harrison, Washington, et al. Guys like this are gems located by scouts. Granted, Colbert has to agree to sign them, but it's not he's discovering these guys. If HE knew they were so good, he wouldn't have risked letting them get to UDFA. Hell, we drafted Drew Caylor in 2004, a damn long snapper, so it's not like he was that sold on the upside of Parker.

I agree that Donahue was better in the 3rd. But I do not know if the difference is huge. Colbert had Steed, Witman, Gildon, Vrabel, Ward, and Porter turn into good players, whether with us or elsewhere. But, he also had twice as many selections. Of his 14-3rd round picks, 6 were starters. Hasting, Morris, Stai, and Zereoue were marginal guys. He had 4 I would consider busts. Colbert had 8 picks. Clancy has logged 30 starts and is currently with the Saints. Hope is one of the better players for the Titans and signed a big contract. Starks started two seasons for us and will start somewhere next season. IMO, it is too early to determine the fates of Smith and Spaeth. So, I would state that Colbert had 3 busts out of his 8 picks (Reid, Essex, and Poteat). Essex could still be argued, he has played pretty well when he saw the field, hell, better than Smith at times. Is Reid done? Probably, but it is still early, 2 seasons in and all.

That would make Donahue's 3rd round percentage about 4 busts in 14 picks, or 28%. Colbert would have 3 in 8, or 37%....but every season he drafts it will increase or decrease by about 5%. I would not call 9% a huge difference.



And, while we have found undrafted guys who turned out to be stellar....IMO, that discovery has to be shared between the coaches, scouts, and GM. Those same scouts that found those gems also recommended the draft picks.

I will take ANY GM that has a top two rounds as solid as Colbert's though. Think about how many first round picks the Browns have dumped as busts. Colbert has yet to miss (too soon to call Timmons a bust).

[TMC]

In evaluating Donahoe's second day picks, it is imperative to remember that the Steelers had a lot of free agents leave during his term (O'Donnell, Thigpen, Lake, etc.).

That resulted in a LOT of compensatory picks, with the result being probably twice as many selections in rounds 4-7 than Colbert had available.

Also, Donahoe drafted before the draft was reduced to 7 rounds. The result is that he had A TON MORE SELECTIONS IN THE LATER ROUNDS.

That is critical, since later round picks tend to be boom-or-bust. They fell for a reason (Ward - too slow, not enough time at WR; Gildon and Porter - tweeners, etc.). Having 40 such picks, rather than 20, will result in a hell of a lot more "winners."


But, because of the departure of those free agents, it also opened spots for the rookies to fill, making the competition easier. Do you really think Kordell Stewart would have started at QB if O'Donnell had stayed? You think Chad Scott would have beaten out Rod Woodson? He had more picks and more spots to put them in.

As far as the drafts I listed, only 2 of them had more than 7 rounds. So, if you take those off, and you have to take off his one hit of Perry as well, that means he missed 31 times in 45 chances. It is a 69% bust rate, if you skew it down to 7 rounds. So, the data I used did not have a ton of later round picks.

And, Ward, Porter, and Gildon were all selected in the 3rd, which is the first day. You do not want to compare the first days, because Colbert simply kills in the first and 2nd round. He has only had 2 busts (Colclough/Jackson). He has also drafted Burress, Smith, Hampton, Bell, Polamalu, and Ben Roethlisberger.....two ROYs and all have visited the Pro Bowl. That does not include the average to above average starters like Miller, Santonio, and Simmons as well as potential future starters in Woodley, McFadden, and Timmons.

He has yet to toss up a first round bust....in 8 drafts. IMO, that is pretty impressive.

[BillvinCowbert]

In evaluating Donahoe's second day picks, it is imperative to remember that the Steelers had a lot of free agents leave during his term (O'Donnell, Thigpen, Lake, etc.).

That resulted in a LOT of compensatory picks, with the result being probably twice as many selections in rounds 4-7 than Colbert had available.
That's certainly true, and definitely true for the 3rd round as well. Not so sure about rounds 4-7, but TMC was looking at percentages.

Also, Donahoe drafted before the draft was reduced to 7 rounds. The result is that he had A TON MORE SELECTIONS IN THE LATER ROUNDS.
It also means less chance to get a guy like Willie Parker as a UDFA because, if you draft 12 rounds, he's going to be picked. And, it means more busts because most of those players don't make it.

That is critical, since later round picks tend to be boom-or-bust. They fell for a reason (Ward - too slow, not enough time at WR; Gildon and Porter - tweeners, etc.). Having 40 such picks, rather than 20, will result in a hell of a lot more "winners."
Sure, that's true, but guys like Marion Barber and Chris Canty fell for a reason - you STILL have to draft them when they fall. Guys fall every year, the key is grabbing the right ones with upside (like Colbert did with Kemo a few years back).

Donahoe hit a A LOT of big-time contributors in R3, so it can't be ignored.

To your point, another factor that CAN'T be ignored is how many picks Colbert deals away to move up in the draft. When you spend a 2nd AND a 4th on Ricardo Colclough, that only shows up as one pick used when really it was 2. You can't boom or bust in R4 if you've traded the pick away.

[BillvinCowbert]

I agree that Donahue was better in the 3rd. But I do not know if the difference is huge. Colbert had Steed, Witman, Gildon, Vrabel, Ward, and Porter turn into good players, whether with us or elsewhere.
In their respective primes, Steed, Ward, and Porter were great players. Cornerstone, build a team around these guys, kinds of players. I don't like Gildon as much as others, but he is the all-time sack leader and some (not me, mind you), would say he was great. Vrabel has gone on to have a fabulous career in NE, though not here. Witman, eh, he was decent, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the level of the others.

But, he also had twice as many selections. Of his 14-3rd round picks, 6 were starters. Hasting, Morris, Stai, and Zereoue were marginal guys. He had 4 I would consider busts.
Hastings was a solid contributor, a replacement-level starter maybe, but yeah, not great. Stai started for a few years then kind of regressed - maybe Starks would be considered more effective, but not by a significant margin. Morris would have been very good if he avoided the weed, but he didn't, so that factors. And AZ has easily had as good a career as Clancy, IMO. He actually had a few very good big games for us when needed, but whatever, he's on par with a guy like Fu, maybe a bit better than Haynes.

Colbert had 8 picks. Clancy has logged 30 starts and is currently with the Saints. Hope is one of the better players for the Titans and signed a big contract. Starks started two seasons for us and will start somewhere next season. IMO, it is too early to determine the fates of Smith and Spaeth. So, I would state that Colbert had 3 busts out of his 8 picks (Reid, Essex, and Poteat). Essex could still be argued, he has played pretty well when he saw the field, hell, better than Smith at times. Is Reid done? Probably, but it is still early, 2 seasons in and all.
Hope had been a very good player, probably on the level of a Gildon. Starks has been a bit of an enigma, kind of too early to write off - he may leave and be Vrabel, or maybe he'll be Brendan Stai. In either case, not a bust.

I thought Smith was a good pick, certainly too soon to say, but the line is trending down right now (mainly because he's a dumbass). Spaeth may end up being a servicable TE2, but I think his "upside" is pretty much on the level of Zereoue (whereas Heath Miller will probably be considered on the level of Hines).

That would make Donahue's 3rd round percentage about 4 busts in 14 picks, or 28%. Colbert would have 3 in 8, or 37%....but every season he drafts it will increase or decrease by about 5%. I would not call 9% a huge difference.
The bust percentage is close (well, depending on how Smith/Spaeth pan out), but the difference in good/great players is enormous. Ward, Steed, Porter, Vrabel, Gildon versus Chris Hope, pretty much.

I will take ANY GM that has a top two rounds as solid as Colbert's though. Think about how many first round picks the Browns have dumped as busts. Colbert has yet to miss (too soon to call Timmons a bust).
I don't disagree there, he's been very good in R1 and R2; if he could figure out R3-R7, this team could be scary good. Amazing that TD could be so bad in Rs 1/2 but so good in R3.

[the Bubster]

While you are comparing and contrasting donohoe and colbutt, dont forget to compare and contrast their competency playing the FA market.

On one hand, we have colbert, and his rag tag list of duce staley, ced wilson, tylski, reimersma, ryan clark, kirshke, mahan, fordham, barret brooks, Eason. He aint brought a quality FA in since farrior.

On the other hand, donohoe brought in guys like ray seals,wil wolford, duval love, kevin greene, jonathan hayes, john L, just to name a few. Even donohoe's gaffes would rank at the top of colbutt's list. Guys like tim mckyer, donnell woolford and courtney hawkins would be considered to FA's on colbutt's resume'.

For me its simple. I look at 2 teams, donohoe's 95 steelers and colbutt's 05 steelers. In my most humble opinion, the 95 steelers are 21 points better than the 05 steelers.

[SteelerFan448]

While you are comparing and contrasting donohoe and colbutt, dont forget to compare and contrast their competency playing the FA market.

On one hand, we have colbert, and his rag tag list of duce staley, ced wilson, tylski, reimersma, ryan clark, kirshke, mahan, fordham, barret brooks, Eason. He aint brought a quality FA in since farrior.

Farrior, Hartings, and Clark were all great signings. Duce was leading the league in rushing before he got injured, which was the beginning of the end. Plus, do we even have to look at the guys Donahoe let get away and the players that Colbert kept?

[the Bubster]

Farrior, Hartings, and Clark were all great signings. Duce was leading the league in rushing before he got injured, which was the beginning of the end. Plus, do we even have to look at the guys Donahoe let get away and the players that Colbert kept?

Colbert gets no pass for duce's injury. The guy had major health concerns, and the fact he got hurt shouldnt have surprised anyone. It was sheer foolishness for colbutt to sign that injury prone rag to that long term deal.

and please, we all know cheapass rooney handcuffed donohoe and chin's roster. He didnt open up the checkbook until they moved into heinz. Any steeler fan knows that and to insinuate anything other than that is juvenile.

[TheStoneMan]

Hello steelernation posters, i've been reading the posts on this website for years now, but just became a member for the first time now. please go easy on me lol .... i'll try to curb my own idiocy and maybe add something enlightening whenever possible.... thanks TSM

Anyways regarding the colbert post, i dont see it as anything other than feeding the media with facts everyone already knows... 1.) we won't draft a QB early... obviously.. 2) Faneca like will not return...no breaking news there, and as far as taking the best player available, Theres gonna be a lot of good lineman available when we draft, hes obvoiously not going to make the pick in february.

[t-bone]

Colbert gets no pass for duce's injury.
neither does Rodney Harrison.

[Hollywood Bags]

Farrior, Hartings, and Clark were all great signings. Duce was leading the league in rushing before he got injured, which was the beginning of the end. Plus, do we even have to look at the guys Donahoe let get away and the players that Colbert kept?

You did well before mentioning the players Colbert kept, Gildon, Washington, Scott, Simmons, Kirschke, are just a few players that stayed too long at too high a pricetag.

[CaptainJack]

After thinking more about comparing Donahoe and Colbert, I realized that Colbert has only had one draft where he probably had final say on the picks. Other than this past draft, Cowher had final say on who the Steelers drafted. That was the whole reason Donahoe was let go, because of a power struggle with Cowher over draft picks. Which after Donahoe overruled Cowher to draft Troy Edwards over Jevon Kerse and John Tait, it's not suprising that Cowher won that battle.

I guess we'll have to see if Colbert takes another Timmons in the first round this year.

[topseed]

I generally was OK with Colbert, for the most part, until I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach last April when they indeed announced Timmons as the first Steelers' pick. And it seems like since then, things have continued on downhill in a hurry. Looking at next season's schedule doesn't make me feel much better, either. Pittsburgh badly needs a strong draft.

[Supersteeler]

I generally was OK with Colbert, for the most part, until I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach last April when they indeed announced Timmons as the first Steelers' pick. And it seems like since then, things have continued on downhill in a hurry. Looking at next season's schedule doesn't make me feel much better, either. Pittsburgh badly needs a strong draft.

So one draft pick that hasn't gotten the opportunity to play has soured you on a guy you previously liked? Wow. As far as the other things that could have happened since, would that be the Kirschke signing, that's all that comes to mind that anyone could have a major problem with. Also, I wasn't aware that Colbert is responsible for scheduling our opponents.

[the Bubster]

So one draft pick that hasn't gotten the opportunity to play has soured you on a guy you previously liked? Wow. As far as the other things that could have happened since, would that be the Kirschke signing, that's all that comes to mind that anyone could have a major problem with. Also, I wasn't aware that Colbert is responsible for scheduling our opponents.

i think the point he was making that the talent deficiencies the steelers have were masked by that cupcake schedule they played last season, and unless the talent level is upgraded, the much tougher schedule in 08 will most likely expose those talent deficiencies.

you arent too bright, are you? That ok, I'm here to educate.

[Supersteeler]

i think the point he was making that the talent deficiencies the steelers have were masked by that cupcake schedule they played last season, and unless the talent level is upgraded, the much tougher schedule in 08 will most likely expose those talent deficiencies.

you arent too bright, are you? That ok, I'm here to educate.

First of all I wasn't addressing you.

Second of all, The only thing you are educating people on is how much smarter you think you are than everyone else. Go ahead and wallow in your conceit some more. I bet your quite the popular guy in your personal life, I'm sure all of your acquaintances enjoy hearing about how great you are just about as much as I do.

[FAB802]

He should have just said we want Jake Long. If he calls dibs early enough the other GM's won't touch him.

[BillvinCowbert]

I generally was OK with Colbert, for the most part, until I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach last April when they indeed announced Timmons as the first Steelers' pick. And it seems like since then, things have continued on downhill in a hurry. Looking at next season's schedule doesn't make me feel much better, either. Pittsburgh badly needs a strong draft.

Actually, I think they announced he was their first pick in March, even though the draft wasn't until April. Most of us just hoped it a was a big smoke screen.

[3diamonds5rings]

I generally was OK with Colbert, for the most part, until I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach last April when they indeed announced Timmons as the first Steelers' pick. And it seems like since then, things have continued on downhill in a hurry. Looking at next season's schedule doesn't make me feel much better, either. Pittsburgh badly needs a strong draft.


What about these words "in the 4th round the steelers select Punter..." (*click... off goes the TV)

[topseed]

So one draft pick that hasn't gotten the opportunity to play has soured you on a guy you previously liked? Wow. As far as the other things that could have happened since, would that be the Kirschke signing, that's all that comes to mind that anyone could have a major problem with. Also, I wasn't aware that Colbert is responsible for scheduling our opponents.

So "generally OK for the most part" is synonymous to "liked" in your book? Wow.

I never cared for Timmons from the moment I found out the Steelers were interested in taking him, and I was hoping Colbert's professed love for the guy was in fact a smokescreen, but, unfortunately it wasn't. I wanted Posluszny or Grubbs, and as it turns out they could have traded down and still gotten either one of these guys later, plus Timmons. No other team seemed to think he was worth a middle first-round pick except Pittsburgh. Maybe the dude will assuage my doubts sometime soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

As far as other things Colbert's done since, yes, the Kirschke signing makes little sense to me because I feel the Steelers should be looking to get younger on the D-line, not older. And you may have missed it, but this past week they transition tagged a backup tackle to the tune of nearly $7 million, a baffling move on many levels.

In regards to my mention of the schedule, your buddy (the Bubster) was correct in his assessment.

[topseed]

Actually, I think they announced he was their first pick in March, even though the draft wasn't until April. Most of us just hoped it a was a big smoke screen.

Yeah, but GMs never give away anything before the draft. :rolleyes:

[BillvinCowbert]

What about these words "in the 4th round the steelers select Punter..." (*click... off goes the TV)

It certainly was better than "in the 4th round the steelers select Ryan McBean"...

[Mike64]

I thought the Steelers were really high on Revis and saying that was who they wanted. Unfortunately, the Jets traded up to 14 and took him. Imagine that: a guy to start at corner as well as return kicks and punts.

[Supersteeler]

So "generally OK for the most part" is synonymous to "liked" in your book? Wow.

I never cared for Timmons from the moment I found out the Steelers were interested in taking him, and I was hoping Colbert's professed love for the guy was in fact a smokescreen, but, unfortunately it wasn't. I wanted Posluszny or Grubbs, and as it turns out they could have traded down and still gotten either one of these guys later, plus Timmons. No other team seemed to think he was worth a middle first-round pick except Pittsburgh. Maybe the dude will assuage my doubts sometime soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

As far as other things Colbert's done since, yes, the Kirschke signing makes little sense to me because I feel the Steelers should be looking to get younger on the D-line, not older. And you may have missed it, but this past week they transition tagged a backup tackle to the tune of nearly $7 million, a baffling move on many levels.

In regards to my mention of the schedule, your buddy (the Bubster) was correct in his assessment.

Fair enough, I agree the jury is still way out Timmons although I am a bit more optimistic than you are and I'm not crazy about the Kirschke signing either although I assume Eason is a goner and we still need some depth even if we do address DL in the draft. The Starks thing though was our only option though IMO...if Faneca and Starks both walked, we would be screwed....while Starks is not going to save the team, we could not afford to lose both with the depth we have there.

See I can discuss football with you because unlike my buddy Bubster, every post you make is not an annoying attempt to sound superior to everyone else.

[BillvinCowbert]

I thought the Steelers were really high on Revis and saying that was who they wanted. Unfortunately, the Jets traded up to 14 and took him. Imagine that: a guy to start at corner as well as return kicks and punts.

I don't know, I thought they tipped their hand really early... even before this article, but this one was at the end of March:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_500438.html

[SteelerFan448]

Revis and Timmons were the two names associated with the Steelers way before the draft. I think most of us had hoped Timmons was just a smoke screen. If I hear a name early this year, I hope it is on the OL or at DE.

[the Bubster]

Colbert/tomlin were obviously hellbent on taking timmons, so much so that they ignored all the red flags surrounding him. Dont forget, timmons showed up for a workout out of shape and barely made it through the workout. Rosenhaus had to make a personal guarantee to steeler brass that he would show up in shape for minicamp should they draft him. To ignore those red flags was lunacy.

Lo and behold, timmons shows up for mini camp out of shape and with a gimpy hammy that lingered on till thanksgiving.

[Vader]

I never wanted Timmons but the FO was dead set on drafting him. I would watch ESPN analysis talk about the draft. Most would say Timmons was the guy without even blinking an eye or giving another name of a someone different. I was hoping it was a smokescreen as well but the FO was going to draft him no matter what.

Having said that I hope he can play ILB.

[SteelerFan448]

Colbert/tomlin were obviously hellbent on taking timmons, so much so that they ignored all the red flags surrounding him. Dont forget, timmons showed up for a workout out of shape and barely made it through the workout. Rosenhaus had to make a personal guarantee to steeler brass that he would show up in shape for minicamp should they draft him. To ignore those red flags was lunacy.

Lo and behold, timmons shows up for mini camp out of shape and with a gimpy hammy that lingered on till thanksgiving.

Not many were happy with this pick, in part for that reason. But that that he is with the Steelers, we have to hope for the best. However, there were some other players that have showed upside from last year's draft including Woodley, Spaeth, Sepulveda and Gay.

[Avoid Lloyd1975]

Colbert has been playing too much Madden 08 offseason franchise mode.

[dobre shunka]

The Starks thing though was our only option though IMO...if Faneca and Starks both walked, we would be screwed....while Starks is not going to save the team, we could not afford to lose both with the depth we have there.



The transition tag does not secure anything tho. Except for a chance to match. That's it. And not even a good chance. Since everyone poison pills these things it's become almost worthless. There's a good chance both could walk anyways. Then what.

Let's say two weeks into Starks FA tour he settles on a contract from Team X that the Steelers could match if not for a clause like Hutchinson's 'Contract becomes entirely guaranteed if Starks is not the highest paid player.' Meanwhile, the FA market has dried up all while you had $7m tied up waiting on Starks to decide both his and your fate. Or he gets a Locklear type offer the Steelers think is a little too steep? Do they then overspend, because in your opinion they'd 'be screwed if Faneca and Starks both walked'? What kind of options are those?

Like I said at the very beginning, the only way you can take this chance is if Starks truly wants to stay and agrees beforehand to waive any poison pill clauses to give the Steelers a real chance to match. And still, he might get that big offer and leave the Steelers high and dry anyways.