Attention Ben

[BLITZ 43]

I just read this and thought with Ben's comments about a tall WR this would be good, from Todd McShay of Scouts Inc:


• For teams like Washington and Buffalo that are looking to add a big receiver, Friday's weigh-in was a reminder of how much supply will be available to match their demand. In fact, ten of the 53 receivers in Indy are taller than 6-foot-3. They are: Texas' Limas Sweed (6-3⅞, 215); Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly (6-3¾, 224); Arkansas' Marcus Monk (6-4¼, 222); Stanford's Evan Moore (6-6, 233); Indiana's James Hardy (6-5⅜, 217) Virginia Tech's Justin Harper (6-3½, 213) Kansas' Marcus Henry (6-3⅝, 207); Iowa State's Todd Blythe (6-4⅛, 214); Nebraska's Maurice Purify (6-3⅛, 224); and Louisville's Mario Urrutia (6-5⅜, 232).

[the Bubster]

Chalk another one up for the Bubster.

Despite all the hype surrounding the supposed 6-7 James Hardy, I held firm with my assertion he wouldnt measure 6-6 at the combine and lo and behold, he checks in at 6-5 3/8.

[In Ben We Trust]

Funny how many people on here felt Hardy was 6'7".....I knew that was not accurate. Still, I would love to see us grab him in the second.

[In Ben We Trust]

Oh god I'm thinking along with the Bubster....excuse me while I go pop a bottle of advil.

[dobre shunka]

Hardy does have the longest arms among WRs at 35.5", and the 2nd biggest set of hands at 10.25" (Jerome Simpson has 11" mits). And Hardy said at the combine the Steelers (along with Jets, SF, Buf, Ten) are interested in him.

[the Bubster]

Hardy does have the longest arms among WRs at 35.5", and the 2nd biggest set of hands at 10.25" (Jerome Simpson has 11" mits). And Hardy said at the combine the Steelers (along with Jets, SF, Buf, Ten) are interested in him.


do you think the steelers are sincerely interested in him? Or do you think colbert is laying down more smoke?

[FlaStlrfan]

Chalk another one up for the Bubster.




Chalk another what up?

You act like your so called "evaluation" actually matters to anyone but yourself.

[dobre shunka]

do you think the steelers are sincerely interested in him? Or do you think colbert is laying down more smoke?

Yeah, I think he's interested in him. Fwiw, those were Hardy's words, not Colbert's. And they wanted a tall WR last year too, had a number of those types in for visits predraft. And the two or three they were targeting in the R3 popped off right before their pick (Hill, Robinson, and may Jacoby Jones iirc), so they figured Spaeth was close enough and took Fred Gibson Jr in the 7th. I don't think either satified their need for a tall WR. IIRC, they had a high number of WRs in for visits and all were over 6' except for Steve Smith (Jarrett, Allison, Jones, Robinson, Hill). The visitor list generally a clear roadmap when it comes to divining Colbert's drafts. If Hardy shows up on their visitors list, there you go.

[omawho]

Chalk another one up for the Bubster.

Despite all the hype surrounding the supposed 6-7 James Hardy, I held firm with my assertion he wouldnt measure 6-6 at the combine and lo and behold, he checks in at 6-5 3/8.

Well, ain't you the one though....... The more I hear from you, the more I think you're the guy that regularly gets knocked off his bar stool at the local pub..... You annoy the hell out of me.

[south dakota STEEL]

Arkansas' Marcus Monk

any relation to Art?
If so, would love to have him play for us...

[BLITZ 43]

Well, ain't you the one though....... The more I hear from you, the more I think you're the guy that regularly gets knocked off his bar stool at the local pub..... You annoy the hell out of me.



Oh no you got him all wrong instead of a bar stool give him a pocket protecter and a pair of glasses with tape and there ya go. Revenge of the Bubster!

[Avoid Lloyd1975]

Detroit is still shopping Roy Williams. I would give up next year's first rounder for that guy. I wouldn't mess with any of the garbage in the draft. Rookie WR's tend to take longer to develop than most positions.

[BLITZ 43]

Detroit is still shopping Roy Williams. I would give up next year's first rounder for that guy. I wouldn't mess with any of the garbage in the draft. Rookie WR's tend to take longer to develop than most positions.

I would love to see the Steelers talk to the Lions about Roy I am wondering if Moss went for a lousy 4th last year what is Williams worth this year. I know different situations but hey maybe a 2 and 4? Then we can go OT in the first and not have to worry about WR for some time. Just a thought.

[BermudaSteel]

Detroit is still shopping Roy Williams. I would give up next year's first rounder for that guy. I wouldn't mess with any of the garbage in the draft. Rookie WR's tend to take longer to develop than most positions.

Ahem...

Now this is the productive thinking I'm looking for!!! I say, AMEN - AMEN and AMEN!!!!

Go get Roy, FO...by any means necessary!

[Coryea]

Monk and Purify didn't look so good in the drills at the combine from what I saw.
What about Urutia(too lazy to look up spelling), he looked pretty good.

[Achie D]

I would love to see the Steelers talk to the Lions about Roy I am wondering if Moss went for a lousy 4th last year what is Williams worth this year. I know different situations but hey maybe a 2 and 4? Then we can go OT in the first and not have to worry about WR for some time. Just a thought.

I don't think he has #1 pick numbers except for 2006. A #2 would be reasonable.

Career Stats more
Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
G GS Rec Yds Avg Long TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2007 Detroit Lions 12 12 64 838 13.1 91T 5 2 1 0.5 9 0 2 1
2006 Detroit Lions 16 16 82 1,310 16.0 60T 7 2 2 1.0 2 0 2 2
2005 Detroit Lions 13 12 45 687 15.3 51T 8 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2004 Detroit Lions 14 11 54 817 15.1 46 8 1 1 1.0 1 0 1 1
TOTAL 245 3,652 14.9 91 28 5 4 0.8 9 0 5 4

But yeah, if they take our #2, grab him.

[cutty]

I would love to see the Steelers talk to the Lions about Roy I am wondering if Moss went for a lousy 4th last year what is Williams worth this year. I know different situations but hey maybe a 2 and 4? Then we can go OT in the first and not have to worry about WR for some time. Just a thought.


I would definitely perusue Wiliiams before drafting another rookie at WR.

[Achie D]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/47075.html

Roy Williams - Position: WR
Class: Sr
School: Texas
Conference: Big 12
Ht., Wt.: 6'2½, 212
40 Time: 4.42
Grade: 4.48

Selected by Detroit Lions
Round 1, pick 7 (7 overall)
BIO: Made a major impact on the Texas program as a freshman and has won varying degrees of all-conference honors since the 2000 season. Led Texas in receiving the past three seasons, most recently totaling 70/1,079/9 in '03 after 64/1,142/12 as a junior when he set a school record for touchdown receptions. Sophomore totals included 67/836/7 after 40/809/8 in 2000, when he was tabbed Big 12 Offensive Freshman of the Year.

POSITIVES: Big, playmaking receiver that is a scoring threat every time he handles the ball. Quickly gets off the line and defeats jams by opponents, has a burst of speed and runs solid routes. Sharp into patterns, stays low on exit and immediately positions himself to make the reception. Shields defenders from the action with his large frame and protects the pass, quickly transitioning up the field after the reception. Extends his hands, offers the quarterback a nice target and comes down with the ball in a crowd. Tough to cover and easily separates from opponents. Picks up positive yardage running with the ball and is both elusive and strong. Makes the reception in stride running laterally, has excellent deep speed yet controls the game as a possession receiver in the underneath coverage. Also intelligent and knows where the chains are on third down. Effective blocker when focused on the task at hand.

NEGATIVES: Does not always play with a sense of urgency and comes across as a prospect that will take it or leave it. Does not always attack blocking assignments. Bothered by hamstring injuries throughout his junior campaign. Does not always show up for the big game.

ANALYSIS: A receiver that dominates, Williams possesses the physical skills that warrant a very early selection at the top of the draft, but he does not come across as someone that always plays like the game is on the line. Possessing more upside than any player in this draft, Williams will be a value pick anywhere after the third choice if he plays to his level.

PROJECTION: Mid First Round

I'd hate to see us give up a #1. I'd be giddy for a #2.

[BLITZ 43]

I guess the real question is what are the Lions looking for? We have heard they are shopping RW but what are they looking for, I would give 2nd hell like I just said I would give a 2 and 4. Here is my thought on why 2 picks, the Steelers don't let a rookie play much anyways so why not give up 2 picks 1 pick is going to sit on your bench right? The other pick is like insurance look we drafted Reid with our 3rd right and he didn't work out so you know what you are getting with RW, give the 2 & 4 and smile as we worry about oline, dline and cb with our other picks.

[kurtistb]

The biggest roadblock for a Roy Williams trade IMO is working out a contract extension. To me its useless giving up a second for a guy that will be gone in 2 years because I can't resign him. He doesn't come across to me as the most down to earth guy so what do you think he wants in terms of a contract extension? He's coming off a 6 year 27million dollar contract so I have to imagine he is going to want his next one to be in the 6yr 40 million dollar range, which we ain't payin'

[scrapdog]

Chalk another one up for the Bubster.

Despite all the hype surrounding the supposed 6-7 James Hardy, I held firm with my assertion he wouldnt measure 6-6 at the combine and lo and behold, he checks in at 6-5 3/8.


Actually he is 6'7"................................. with his cleats on. ;)

[Achie D]

I have to imagine he is going to want his next one to be in the 6yr 40 million dollar range, which we ain't payin'

Hines’ contract runs 2 more years. His contract could serve as a model for a Roy Williams.

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/player/HinesWard.htm

In 2005 he signed a five-year contract extension worth $27.5 million, which included a $9 million signing bonus.

Year base salary SB roster bonus workout bonus LTBE bonus cap value
2005 $665,000 $1,500,000 $3,960 $2,168,960
2006 $2,750,000 $2,000,000 $1,000,000 $2,970 $5,752,970
2007 $3,585,000 $2,000,000 $3,840 $5,588,840
2008 $4,700,000 $2,000,000 $750,000 $7,450,000
2009 $5,800,000 $2,000,000 $750,000 $8,550,000

Hines is great and far more valuable than his statistics reflect. But are we really going to pay him that CAP number in 09? I AM NOT advocating cutting Hines for 09, just looking at reality in the NFL. There’s going to be a BIG hole to fill in 09 or 10 regardless.

With that as a backdrop, is it unreasonable to go after a Roy Williams in the $40M / $10M SB 6 year range? You’d have a helluva WR corp this and possibly next year and Hines’ departure wouldn’t be as bad.

[Coryea]

This team won't seem right without Hines.

[thatrain]

Hines will either rework his contract, be extended, or be cut next year. The Steelers aren't going to pay him that much money.

[mightyguru]

I'm digging this Will Franklin kid. Big, fast and a team player.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/will-franklin?id=1022

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

I know Williams is a talent, but why give up a draft pick when you can sign any one of the free agents available. Johnson in Arizona, Carter in Carolina, or how bout Malcolm Floyd in SD? He fits the bill for a big WRPosition: WR :
Malcolm Floyd

College: Wyoming

Height: 6-5

Weight: 225

Age: 26

Experience: 2nd NFL Season

Acquired: Free Agent - 2004

Hometown: Sacramento, California

[t-bone]

I agree on Floyd....he's a little slower than Plax, but he can, or could, jump outta the building and come down in bounds....what game was that?...anyways....he can catch, and probably block...did he blow a knee?

depends on the $$$$, as always.

[BLITZ 43]

I know Williams is a talent, but why give up a draft pick when you can sign any one of the free agents available. Johnson in Arizona, Carter in Carolina, or how bout Malcolm Floyd in SD? He fits the bill for a big WRPosition: WR :
Malcolm Floyd

College: Wyoming

Height: 6-5

Weight: 225

Age: 26

Experience: 2nd NFL Season

Acquired: Free Agent - 2004

Hometown: Sacramento, California


I like the guys you mentioned especially Johnson but there is no question who I would want and that is Roy Williams. This guy is a PROVEN TOP WR and these other guys might be good but they are no RW. What would you like better Ward,Williams and Holmes or Ward,Holmes and B. Johnson? Carter and Floyd have not proven anything if they did then they wouldn't be FA'S for sure. If we have a chance at RW then hell yeah but I will say there are a lot of fall back options if we don't get him too.

[FlaStGrad]

Colbert consistently says we wil build through the draft and not through FA. IMO, that does not mean he will trade draft picks for underachieving players on other teams (despite it being the Lions) who will demand a big salary.

The only new WR on the Steelers will come from the draft. Why? A rookie will not start and can be the 3rd or 4th WR on the team. That allows Holmes and Ward to continue to be the starters, while letting the rookie WR learn behind Hines and then replace him when Hines retires.

You guys want a top WR? Easy... we franchise AF and then trade him to ARZ for Anquon Boldin. Now I'm sold! And if Bubster approves, the deal is done!

[kurtistb]

Hines’ contract runs 2 more years. His contract could serve as a model for a Roy Williams.

http://www.steelersalarycap.com/player/HinesWard.htm

In 2005 he signed a five-year contract extension worth $27.5 million, which included a $9 million signing bonus.

Year base salary SB roster bonus workout bonus LTBE bonus cap value
2005 $665,000 $1,500,000 $3,960 $2,168,960
2006 $2,750,000 $2,000,000 $1,000,000 $2,970 $5,752,970
2007 $3,585,000 $2,000,000 $3,840 $5,588,840
2008 $4,700,000 $2,000,000 $750,000 $7,450,000
2009 $5,800,000 $2,000,000 $750,000 $8,550,000

Hines is great and far more valuable than his statistics reflect. But are we really going to pay him that CAP number in 09? I AM NOT advocating cutting Hines for 09, just looking at reality in the NFL. There’s going to be a BIG hole to fill in 09 or 10 regardless.

With that as a backdrop, is it unreasonable to go after a Roy Williams in the $40M / $10M SB 6 year range? You’d have a helluva WR corp this and possibly next year and Hines’ departure wouldn’t be as bad.

its not unrealistic to pay that (although he would probably want more guaranteed money) but in any case if you bring Williams in and give him that you better be ready to reup Santonio for a similar amount in the near future

[Achie D]

You guys want a top WR? Easy... we franchise AF and then trade him to ARZ for Anquon Boldin. Now I'm sold! And if Bubster approves, the deal is done!

Good idea but the Cards might not have CAP to sign AF to a deal.

[kurtistb]

Good idea but the Cards might not have CAP to sign AF to a deal.

at this moment I'm not sure if they have the cap room to sign me lol

[Achie D]

its not unrealistic to pay that (although he would probably want more guaranteed money) but in any case if you bring Williams in and give him that you better be ready to reup Santonio for a similar amount in the near future

We own Santonio through 2010.

[Achie D]

[QUOTE=FlaStGrad;76108]we franchise AF and then trade him to ARZ for Anquon Boldin.

That's actually a better idea than Williams. His numbers are better. He blocks like Hines. He's signed through 2010.

If you could get that deal done with AZ it'd be brilliant. You'd have 2 great receivers signed through 2010 and it didn't cost anything. Too good to be true.

[Illinistlrfan]

I like Hardy, depending on how the draft goes I would take him in the 2nd.

[stevew]

I agree on Floyd....he's a little slower than Plax, but he can, or could, jump outta the building and come down in bounds....what game was that?...anyways....he can catch, and probably block...did he blow a knee?

depends on the $$$$, as always.


Apparently blew a knee or broke a leg. I have no idea how they are tendering him, if at all. Should cost no more than 1m a season, if not the minimum salary. Should be a no-brainer move, although with him being a california guy, I'd expect him to try to stay on the coast for minimum money if possible. He was undrafted, if they tender him at 850k, we can make an offer which they have the right to match. If they don't match, he signs with us for no compensation. I can't imagine them offering him the 2nd round tender coming off of a 6 catch season.

[stevew]

Hines will either rework his contract, be extended, or be cut next year. The Steelers aren't going to pay him that much money.

Yeah, I can't imagine paying him 6.5 million for that last season. That's an unrealistic cap figure.

[deljzc]

They should rework Ward's contract now. This off-season. Add two years, give him some bonus money so he pockets a little more money up front but less over the next two seasons (as said, he isn't seeing that $6.5 million next year anyhow). Let Ward retire a Steeler like he should while contributing as a GREAT slot receiver.

But of course that breaks one of Colbert's golden rules which is never look at a player's contract until there is only one year left on it, even if it benefits the Steelers.

[deljzc]

As far as Roy Williams goes:

I actually thought is was an interesting idea but to me that's an all out signal we're just going to ride Roethlisberger's arm from here on out.

To me getting Roy Williams for a 2nd round pick (and maybe some change) and then signing him to a big contract only works if we make Ward a cap casualty next year AND we probably needed to go to field turf. I always looked at that move as an all-in type deal with the passing game. And if we want to be a passing team in Pittsburgh, we should put in Field Turf.

Just my opinion.

[kurtistb]

We own Santonio through 2010.

which means that he would be up for a new deal the offseason after next.

[BLITZ 43]

Yeah, I can't imagine paying him 6.5 million for that last season. That's an unrealistic cap figure.

Ward is going to make 7.8mil with a cap number of 8.5mil, how does that compare to paying Mahan 4 mil the next 3 yrs, Keisel 4 mil the next 2 yrs, Simmons 5-6mil the next 4 yrs, and troy 9+mil the last 2 yrs of his contract? We had better not cut Ward what we are paying these guys this kinda cash, with the exception of TP we could cut the rest and not miss a thing. Ward might not have 8.5mil stats but what he does down the field is priceless, just ask Willie. Maybe we restructure his contract but if we cut him while paying guys like Manhan and Simmon I might lose it!

[deljzc]

Ward is going to make 7.8mil with a cap number of 8.5mil, how does that compare to paying Mahan 4 mil the next 3 yrs, Keisel 4 mil the next 2 yrs, Simmons 5-6mil the next 4 yrs, and troy 9+mil the last 2 yrs of his contract? We had better not cut Ward what we are paying these guys this kinda cash, with the exception of TP we could cut the rest and not miss a thing. Ward might not have 8.5mil stats but what he does down the field is priceless, just ask Willie. Maybe we restructure his contract but if we cut him while paying guys like Manhan and Simmon I might lose it!

You do realize Ward isn't a Colbert guy?

There is a definate trend, that it's not just age or ability that decides who Colbert "likes and doesn't like". He has shown favoritism towards his draft picks the minute Cowher walked out the door and didn't protect his old-school guys.

I'm not saying some of the old-school guys didn't need to go, but he's doing it almost recklessly and not looking out for the best interests of the team. We should have played hardball with Porter and forced his agent to find us a draft pick to leave. I still think Faneca has 2 good years left in the tank (which would have covered 3 seasons of a 5-year deal we could have given him last year) instead of Simmons' contract (right guards are much easier to find and it looks like that's Colon's natural position).

Why will he do anything differently with Ward? He'll wake up after the season is over and look at Ward's contract for the first time in 4 years and say "he's not worth that" and spin his release to the media as a salary cap casualty. All the while we'll be overpaying or extending Mahan, Keisel, Parker, Simmons, Starks, et. al.

Either that or we'll SUPER overpay for Ward and extend his contract way into the next decade.

[BLITZ 43]

You do realize Ward isn't a Colbert guy?

There is a definate trend, that it's not just age or ability that decides who Colbert "likes and doesn't like". He has shown favoritism towards his draft picks the minute Cowher walked out the door and didn't protect his old-school guys.

I'm not saying some of the old-school guys didn't need to go, but he's doing it almost recklessly and not looking out for the best interests of the team. We should have played hardball with Porter and forced his agent to find us a draft pick to leave. I still think Faneca has 2 good years left in the tank (which would have covered 3 seasons of a 5-year deal we could have given him last year) instead of Simmons' contract (right guards are much easier to find and it looks like that's Colon's natural position).

Why will he do anything differently with Ward? He'll wake up after the season is over and look at Ward's contract for the first time in 4 years and say "he's not worth that" and spin his release to the media as a salary cap casualty. All the while we'll be overpaying or extending Mahan, Keisel, Parker, Simmons, Starks, et. al.

Either that or we'll SUPER overpay for Ward and extend his contract way into the next decade.


Come on now your starting to sound like Bubster, who the hell cares if he is or isn't a Colbert guy the fact is he is one hell of a player and the last year of his contract he still will be one hell of a player. I kinda understand what your trying to say when it comes to Mahan, Simmons, and Keisel but come on you can't compare them to Ward. As far as Faneca went you make it sound like we could offer a 5 yr deal and he would have just taken it, hell no he wants the cash and we can't give it to him. Don't put that on Colbert cause if AF wanted to stay he could have and still made good money but he wanted out for the big cash and most likely to join his buddies in AZ. I will be the first to admit I question some of Colberts moves and don't like some of them but show me a team where all the fans agree with all the moves they make?

[thatrain]

Ward will not make that $8.5 million. He wasn't worth that much this year. Not that much last year. Won't be worth it next year, and certainly won't be worth it that year. His play has seriously declined and while he's a great clubhouse guy, I'm not going to watch other players who have play on the field to contribute walk. He'll need to retire or accept a smaller sum of money. If he doesn't, he'll get cut.

[Mike64]

Ward will leave on his own terms. Will he take a paycut? My guess is that he will. Remember now, Ward is not TO or Randy Moss of Keyshawn Johnson. Ward will do whats best for the team. If this team cuts Hines Ward for money, I will be very very upset.

[Hollywood Bags]

Ward is not a saint and held out last time whil;e still under contract.He realizes these are his last big paydays in the NFL as he is getting older and his game is in sharp decline, I hope we do not re-structure him to keep him around too long after his best days are behind him and he stunts the growth of younger receivers. He will not take being bypassed very well as his stupid comments on Ben wanting a taller WR this year shows. Ward's game is all about being disrespected and overcoming doubters, it fuels him, but as he ages his game has declined and he is no longer an elite NFL WR, good but not great and he breaks down every year.

[stevew]

I have a feeling they will offer Ward something like a 3 year deal for 12 million, converting the 6.5m in 08-09 base and workout bonus into the deal. This is if he has a solid year, but not an amazing one, mind you. If he doesn't like it, well he can go somewhere else.

He'd play his last 3 years under cap figures of approx 5m(2m old bonus, 2m new bonus, 1m salary), 5m(2m new bonus, 3m new salary), 4m(2m new bonus, 2m new salary)...those seem like realistic cap hits, and he can stay for at least 2 more years this way.

[Mike64]

The last time he held out, he was still in his prime. In the next two years, I am pretty sure he will come to accept the fact that he doesn't have much longer in the league and will do whats best for this organization. He will either take a paycut or retire. I will put money on it that he will never play in another uniform than the black and gold.

[Hollywood Bags]

I'll take that bet, Hines will play as long as someone will pay him well. Much better Steelers than Hines left to play for other teams, Franco and Webster to name just a couple. Its all about money in todays NFL and anyone who thinks otherwise is a homer or extremely naive.

[the Bubster]

last time ward held out, cowher interjected and brought both sides together.

2 point tomlin dont have that kinda clout

[thatrain]

last time ward held out, cowher interjected and brought both sides together.

2 point tomlin dont have that kinda clout

Pretty sure it was Rooney who brought them together, but sure.. why not change the facts so you can use your nifty little nick name.