1st Pick - Defense

[First Down]

I have a totally different take on our first pick, having read all the post in regards to the OL .

We need a monster pass rusher @ RDE. I like Keisel, steady, stops the run! But you can have the best DBs and they will be exposed by even average QBs with the time to set up. To me, the Steelers have become to gimmick oriented on D with all their blitz packages, and still rarely pressure the QB.

Imagine someone bring heat from the right, I mean real heat, with LaMar bring it from the left! With A. and R. Smith returning, I feel that would solve a lot of problems on D, freeing up Troy to use his skills staying back in the secondary.

The OL gets rounds 2 and 3!

After that, best players available


cc Desk of M. Tomlin

[Slaine]

Been saying this for the past three years. We will be taking a first day DE. Write it down.

[bearcatsno69]

They are gonna go kicker just to screw with us.

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

I think we should draft a QB in the first followed by 2nd rd TE.

[Crime Fighter]

Assuming this happens, which DL is worthy of this pick?

I agree with addressing the OL in RDs 2-4 because starters could be had then.

I honestly feel that unless a guy like OTs Williams and Otah are there, we will go DB, since there seems to be a lot of depth there.

On the other had, DBs get gobbled up pretty quick, so we could just go BAP.

[Steelers.exe]

A franchise QB only comes around so often. Get Ben some protection and weapons first, then go D.

[bearcatsno69]

I think we should draft a QB in the first followed by 2nd rd TE.


Depth at punter also.

[jrock]

I am hoping we fix the dline in round one if we can identify value at 23. This draft seems to be deep on the oline, so if we can wait till round 2 and get a solid starter by year two I will be happy.

[Andymisiu]

Best available talent whether it be OL, DL, or DB with our first pick.

[SteelerFan448]

A franchise QB only comes around so often. Get Ben some protection and weapons first, then go D.

Reaching for a lineman for the sake of drafting a lineman isn't worth passing a better prospect at a different position.

[CoolieMan]

best player on the board regardless of postition....other than QB or TE....

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

OK, so say we go defense in the first, which defensive draft pick makes more sense at 23? Realistically we could go DE, DT, CB, ILB, or Safety.
DE-There's 2 guys I would consider at 23. Groves or Merling. I have a feeling that neither of these guys will be there.
DT-After Dorsey and Ellis, the guys that are left,(Laws, Moore, Bryant, Balmer) are all mid to late 2nd RD guys and there is no way I would invest pick #23 in either of them.
CB-The top 5 as I see it are. Mckelvin, Talib, DRC, Cason, and maybe Flowers.(Although I think Flowers will fall into early second). Which one will be available for us to pick. I see only Cason, Talib, or Flowers being available here and to be honest I would rather have DRC with Cason a close second.
Safety-This is where I think the value will be. Kenny Phillips and Reggie Smith should both be available. Either one is a solid pick. I would take Phillips and pair him in the with Polamalu and would have probably the best, most punishing, safety tandem in the league.

So there you have it. My defensive pick for #23 is Kenny Phillips.

[bradentonfan]

with the 23rd pick of the 1st round ...... Pittsburgh selects, Red Bryant NT/DE
mark it down

[Forearm Shiver]

I hope we go defense, hate watching our pass rush stoned time and time again when we only send 4 or 5. We need that stud pass rusher to open it up for the rest of our average pass rushers.

[60 MINUTES]

Best available talent whether it be OL, DL, or DB with our first pick.


Best Available OL and DL but we are in no need at all this year for DB. We have 4 guys that are very solid this year with Taylor, GAY, DEshea, and McFadden

Maybe next year with a one or two but no way in hell do we waste a pick this year on DB

[Steel Dino]

with the 23rd pick of the 1st round ...... Pittsburgh selects, Red Bryant NT/DE
mark it down


That is a very good possibility bradenton.....might be a reach in the first round though...

[Steel Dino]

I do like the idea of D-Line with the number one...

If Balmer falls to us...I would be very happy.....,,,

[Mike64]

I am all for Bryant being our guy at 23. Would really like to see that guy put on a Steelers uniform. However, Kenny Phillips is also another possibility. With him and Polamalu back there, our safeties will be set. With him in the first and a cb on the second day, our secondary could be set for quite a while.

[Slaine]

I'm hoping that we can get Red Bryant or Dre Moore in the 2nd round. The only other DL that I want in the first (that has any chance of being there) is Merling.

I would be completely fine with taking Quentin Groves or Dan Connor. The thought of going with Kenny Phillips hadn't really occurred to me but with the FO making positive noises about Smith and Ryan Clark getting healthy I don't see it as the pick.

Am I the only one that doesn't rate Balmer?

[kurtistb]

If the top Tackles are gone we should trade down. Absent the ability to trade down we should grab Merling if he is there. If the chance to trade down isn't there and Merling and the Tackles are gone than I hope we end up with Groves or a CB. I like Cason and Mike Jenkins the best of the CB's since I think I think they have the best chance of not busting, with Cason being my choice of the two.

[Iron95]

Best available talent whether it be OL, DL, or DB with our first pick.


I agree. We are not that desparate at any position.

[Jer]

The Cap space also plays a factor. I say trade #23 away and get two additional picks. We should still be able to pick up starters in the 2nd and 3rd to help this year.

[Coryea]

Assuming this happens, which DL is worthy of this pick?


Exactly, what DL is going to be there at 23 that's going to project to a RDE, you just can't take a pass rusher and plug him in there.
with the 23rd pick of the 1st round ...... Pittsburgh selects, Red Bryant NT/DE
mark it down

Bryant is projected as a late round 2 early round 3 pick, that'd be a huge reach if we took him at 23.

Our best hope is that Dre Moore falls to us in the 2nd round or we pull off a trade and move up in round 2 to get him. He played DT at Maryland, but IMO at 6'4" 305 he could easily make the switch to RDE in our defense. 4.88 40 and 31 reps of 225lbs. If we get a DE, I hope it's this guy.

[markymarc]

Depth at punter also.

Followed by a special teams only player.

[smithessmokin]

we need a great DE. we need a great G. those are my two biggest concerns. we need at least two picks of OL and DL. then, we can look at a late round DB/LB and WR.

[BermudaSteel]

I think we should draft a QB in the first followed by 2nd rd TE.
No, man!!! A LONG SNAPPER is the opportunistic pick at #23!!! I'd then draft a GUNNER in the 2nd...

Best available talent whether it be OL, DL, or DB with our first pick.

I wouldn't forget WR on that list.

Folks, with ALL the holes to fill this year and our draft positioning...it would be a reach for a DL and OL at #23. Why? Because we have enough G's already...we don't need a "conversion player". The DL available at 23 will be a reach because Groves will be gone...

BPA all the way.

[Coryea]

Folks, with ALL the holes to fill this year and our draft positioning...it would be a reach for a DL and OL at #23. Why? Because we have enough G's already...we don't need a "conversion player". The DL available at 23 will be a reach because Groves will be gone...

BPA all the way.

Not if Chris Williams is there at #23. I don't consider Gosder Cherilus to be a reach there either.
I don't know if Sweed will be there at 23, and Hardy has been sliding down some charts.

[markymarc]

Not if Chris Williams is there at #23. I don't consider Gosder Cherilus to be a reach there either.
I don't know if Sweed will be there at 23, and Hardy has been sliding down some charts.

I would not complain about getting Sweed or Hardy at #23. I just don't see us taking DL in the first round and we can pretty much rule out TE and QB. Damn I can't wait until draft weekend.

[bradentonfan]

Exactly, what DL is going to be there at 23 that's going to project to a RDE, you just can't take a pass rusher and plug him in there.


Bryant is projected as a late round 2 early round 3 pick, that'd be a huge reach if we took him at 23.

Our best hope is that Dre Moore falls to us in the 2nd round or we pull off a trade and move up in round 2 to get him. He played DT at Maryland, but IMO at 6'4" 305 he could easily make the switch to RDE in our defense. 4.88 40 and 31 reps of 225lbs. If we get a DE, I hope it's this guy.

don't care what some talking head says about where he should go, he provides something this team needs, besides being a good fit as a 3-4 NT/DE, he will bring nastyness, and a player other teams are truly afraid of getting beat up by.... something the Steelers have always had, been known for, and have been lacking for a good while a true intimidator ala Mean Joe, or Lloyd... not just a mouth runner, an ass beater..... if there is no OT or Hardy or Sweed, this should be the pick.

[The Iron is Steel On!]

I like Keisel, steady, stops the run!

What games were you watching? He can't stay in his gap long enough to stop the run.

[Hiwa Kaoru]

First off, the people who repeat that we need a pass-rusher at RDE aren't the brightest tools. . .
In the 3-4, our three DL are space-eaters, as they are called on to cover to gaps. Yes, they oughta be able to pass rush, forcing the OL to assign double-blockers, but the real pass rush comes from our LBs, specifically the OLBs.

Anyway, as to the pick. . .
I'd go with OT or DB with it, whichever position has the better value player. I'd prefer a DB though, as someone will have to replace DeShea eventually. . .

[deljzc]

Exactly, what DL is going to be there at 23 that's going to project to a RDE, you just can't take a pass rusher and plug him in there.


Bryant is projected as a late round 2 early round 3 pick, that'd be a huge reach if we took him at 23.

Our best hope is that Dre Moore falls to us in the 2nd round or we pull off a trade and move up in round 2 to get him. He played DT at Maryland, but IMO at 6'4" 305 he could easily make the switch to RDE in our defense. 4.88 40 and 31 reps of 225lbs. If we get a DE, I hope it's this guy.

Agree 100%. Dre Moore projects best to our system and looks the part to play BOTH DE positions if necessary. He's a clear BPA option for us if he falls to #53.

I don't quite understand the love for Red Bryant. The knock on him is football isn't his priority and his work ethic off the field is a little questionable. He's a smart kid and his character is really good, but his motor runs hot/cold. Plus his weight room ethic isn't really there either. Another D-line prospect with only 20 reps and the Kirwin "Explosion Quotient" of only 57 (reps + vert + broad jump). Kirwin says guys in the front-7 that are NFL ready should be closer to 70 or above.

I think the problem with McBean and Harris were their low explosion quotient (64 and 63 respectfully). And each of them had much better lift numbers than Bryant (27 and 25) and they STILL needed big time NFL weight room work.

I just don't think Bryant is as NFL ready as some around here are making him out to be and he's a high-risk candidate of never working hard enough off the field to be a good 3-4 end.

It's not like he's a bad prospect. I have him right in the middle of my 3rd rounders and I could see worse picks for us in the 3rd round, but anything higher than that (1st or 2nd) and I think it's a major reach for us.

[TMC]

Damn, Kirwan's "Explosion Quotient" sure would have teams passing on some pretty good players. I mean, Aaron Smith's total would have been a 48, and he started in his 2nd year. Mario Williams had an 86 and the bust label was tossed around after his rookie season.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2007-05-24-offseason-report_N.htm

Hell, you would think that Mike Kudla, who threw a 90 in Kirwan's "Explosion Quotient" formula would have actually made a roster.

If it was all about plugging numbers into formulas, ANYONE could spot talent. Forget the FACT that RED Bryant destroyed teams in the running game. He did not have three numbers add up to a big enough total.

[TMC]

Exactly, what DL is going to be there at 23 that's going to project to a RDE, you just can't take a pass rusher and plug him in there.


Bryant is projected as a late round 2 early round 3 pick, that'd be a huge reach if we took him at 23.

Our best hope is that Dre Moore falls to us in the 2nd round or we pull off a trade and move up in round 2 to get him. He played DT at Maryland, but IMO at 6'4" 305 he could easily make the switch to RDE in our defense. 4.88 40 and 31 reps of 225lbs. If we get a DE, I hope it's this guy.

Everyone NOT associated with an NFL team felt Casey Hampton was a HUGE reach.

[TMC]

One other thing I think I should mention about Red Bryant....his campus workout numbers from CBS Sportsline:

Campus: 4.95 in the 40-yard dash … Bench pressed 225 pounds 38 times … 440-pound bench press … 680-pound squat … 407-pounf hang clean (school record) … 29.5-inch vertical jump … 9'2" long jump … 33 3/8-inch arm length … 9-inch hands … Right-handed … 17/20 Wonderlic score.

It appears he just had a bad day at the combine.

[1st & 10]

Scouts compare Red Bryant to Casey Hampton.
If Red Bryant is anything close to Casey Hampton, he is worth
the 23rd pick of the draft.

According to USA Today:
Bryant is a force at shutting down the run. Can slip bocks and wreck havoc
in the backfield. Bryant was called the teams "most important player" and
his hard work was used as an example for the younger players to follow.
He excells at neutralizing multiple blockers. Very combatitive, is able to lock
on and control an opponent. He demands constant double team attention.

[Coryea]

Everyone NOT associated with an NFL team felt Casey Hampton was a HUGE reach.

Not everyone, he was one of the few guys I wanted prior to that draft, I thought he fit at NT perfect for our defense. I'm not against Bryant, just so many other more pressing needs IMO.

[Far51]

trade down to late rnd 1 and take Gosder Churluis, and then use the extra pick to move in rnd 2 to take Moore, rnd 3 take Zuttah rnd 4 FB rnd 5 DE pass rushing specialist rnd 6 Adrian Arrington

rnd 1 OT Gosder Churluis
rnd 2 DL Dre Moore
rnd 3 OG/OT Jeramy Zuttah
rnd 4 FB Owen Schmidt
rnd 5 B.PA
rnd 5 WR Adrian Arrington

[Andymisiu]

Best Available OL and DL but we are in no need at all this year for DB. We have 4 guys that are very solid this year with Taylor, GAY, DEshea, and McFadden

Maybe next year with a one or two but no way in hell do we waste a pick this year on DB

We have to replace DEshea with talent and McFadden will be asking for more money next year as a FA. If you believe that Gay or McFadden will take over the 2nd corner position then you might have a point. I would list DB as a third choice if a DL or OL of talent wasn't available with our pick.

[Slaine]

One other thing I think I should mention about Red Bryant....his campus workout numbers from CBS Sportsline:

Campus: 4.95 in the 40-yard dash … Bench pressed 225 pounds 38 times … 440-pound bench press … 680-pound squat … 407-pounf hang clean (school record) … 29.5-inch vertical jump … 9'2" long jump … 33 3/8-inch arm length … 9-inch hands … Right-handed … 17/20 Wonderlic score.

It appears he just had a bad day at the combine.

Interesting. NFL.com doesn't go into that detail - just says:

» DL Joseph Bryant (6-4, 313): Ran the 40 in 4.88 and 4.92, ran position drills and stood on the rest of his numbers from the combine.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d8077566a&template=with-video&confirm=true

You'd think if Bryant threw up the bar 38 times they'd be shouting about how much money he'd made for himself...?

[Far51]

Groves scouting report has him as a rnd 2-3, he is a pass rushing specialist here is is bio

Strengths:
Excellent athleticism and agility...Very good timed speed and quickness...Explosive with a burst to close...Terrific range and does a nice job in pursuit...Good strength and decent power...Reliable tackler...Offers some versatility...Was real productive.

Weaknesses:
Extremely inconsistent and lacks a great motor...Undersized and doesn't have the ideal bulk that you look for..Isn't stout at the point...Marginal instincts, awareness and recognition...Limited pass rush repertoire...Too aggressive at times...Slow off the line...Has trouble shedding blocks...Poor technique..A questionable work ethic.

Notes:
Played some outside linebacker as a senior and that may be his home at the next level...Auburn's all-time sack leader...A better pro prospect than Reggie Torbor or Stanley McClover were...Is more of an athlete than a football player and could get overdrafted...His best fit might come in a 3-4 scheme..A classic "Workout Warrior".

Sounds a lot like Lavar Arrington rather take Campbell

[TMC]

Grove is undersized? He is 6'3"-259 pounds. Chris Long is only 3 pounds heavier and the same site says Long "Has good size and bulk".

Three fucking pounds. Another case of paralysis by analysis. Groves total tackle numbers have never been huge, but his sacks and TFL numbers are pretty impressive. His senior numbers are down, but he played with 3 dislocated toes. They bothered him so bad that he was limited to situational roles his senior season. As a Junior, he had 9.5 sacks and even though he only gathered 3 sacks, he finished his career with 26 sacks.

From NFL.com: "An athlete blessed with incredible quickness coming off the edge, dislocated toes did what no other offensive lineman could do in 2007 - stop Quentin Groves. Those who witnessed his performance in the South Florida game last year realize that this is a player that needs to be unleashed on the football field to get maximum production from his tremendous athletic ability.

Drawing comparisons to Dallas' DeMarcus Ware, Groves will probably shift to outside linebacker in the professional ranks. He received a crash course at that position late in his senior campaign and even earned a start at left outside linebacker in the Tennessee Tech game. With his tall, muscular physique, excellent speed, outstanding change of direction agility and superb body control as a pass rusher, NFL quarterbacks will soon have to contend with one of the most disruptive backfield penetrators in the 2008 NFL Draft."

If Groves falls to us in the 2nd, we would be absolute idiots to pass on him. And, I feel the same way about Avril at times. You pair either with Woodley and we could have a dominant pass rush for the next decade.

[Far51]

TMC do you think he could stay asa the De in the NFL, seems everyone says he will a OLB asa pro but say he is the B.P.A when we draft and Tomlin does have serious thoughts of a future 4-3 could we build "Tomlin's possible 4-3" around" Groves?

[deljzc]

Interesting. NFL.com doesn't go into that detail - just says:



http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d8077566a&template=with-video&confirm=true

You'd think if Bryant threw up the bar 38 times they'd be shouting about how much money he'd made for himself...?

Campus workouts isn't the pro day workout. Different thing. The campus workout numbers aren't really verified by anyone but maybe the school trainer.

If Bryant is a 35+ bench press guy, it changes his profile completely. Guys like that that run under 5.00 don't come along every day.

But I find that difference in lift numbers highly questionable. You think if he only got 20 reps, he'd be itching to replace that number at his pro day, but he didn't lift at his pro day either.

Something's not right.

[TMC]

TMC do you think he could stay asa the De in the NFL, seems everyone says he will a OLB asa pro but say he is the B.P.A when we draft and Tomlin does have serious thoughts of a future 4-3 could we build "Tomlin's possible 4-3" around" Groves?

Tomlin has serious thoughts of the 4-3? Since when....everything he has stated over and over points to him STAYING with the 3-4. In fact, he even made the statement that while he did run the 4-3, it is not the only defense he knows. In fact, there is an article on the Trib stating he is not planning on changing.....

"We've got a great deal of continuity in terms of (the 3-4). We play great defense. It's not broke, so why fix it?" Tomlin said. "To me, part of good coaching is doing what your guys do well and putting them in position to be successful."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_560336.html

And, I question whether Groves can play DE in the 4-3, but he did last year and was damn near unblockable. Three dislocated toes slowed him this year, but he looks like he will be better standing, in space. The thing is, the Steelers know what defense they are going to run and if they draft Groves, they know where they will play him. He is a late first round talent that could become a real stud in the 3-4.

So, I do not concern myself with whether we can build a 4-3 around Groves....because we do not run the 4-3. And, IF Tomlin is just damn lying to everyone and the 4-3 comes out this year, he would not draft Groves anyway.......because Woodley would be our RDE.

IMO, the 4-3 talk is useless. We ARE what we ARE.

[TMC]

Campus workouts isn't the pro day workout. Different thing. The campus workout numbers aren't really verified by anyone but maybe the school trainer.

If Bryant is a 35+ bench press guy, it changes his profile completely. Guys like that that run under 5.00 don't come along every day.

But I find that difference in lift numbers highly questionable. You think if he only got 20 reps, he'd be itching to replace that number at his pro day, but he didn't lift at his pro day either.

Something's not right.

Seriously? Are you really serious? What he benches on one day should not change his profile AT ALL. Until they trot out bench presses on Sunday, that shit just does not make that much difference. And, furthermore, I know plenty of guys that wake up one day and push massive amounts of weight, then, two days later, they just do not feel right and can't do half of their maximum. People are going to have good days and bad days.

Now, you think I am wrong? Hercules Satele just threw the bar up 40 times at the Hawaii Pro Day. Before that, his PERSONAL best was 26. Here is the article telling that.....
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/SPORTS0201/804020422/1032

So, by your views, his one day bench press would change his profile completely. One great day and he is a different player.

What is not right is the way you view these numbers as the tell all end all for these prospects. They are people....and they have good days and bad days. Even brilliant minds have bad days and fail exams....does not make them stupid.

[Steeltime]

Even brilliant minds have bad days and fail exams.....

True for the average genius.

Not me, of course, but true for others? Absolutely.

http://www.schulemachtzukunft2006-031.de/images/einstein.jpg
Steeltime

[crimsonsteel]

Groves doesn't have a high motor? That's a bunch of bs. I've seen more than enough of this guy. He is a dominant player. I forget who said it in another thread but somebody mentioned he could be a Joey Porter. I whole heartedly agree. If we go defense at 23 I'm all about taking Groves. As much as we need OL, our biggest depth issues are at LB.

[markymarc]

Hell, you would think that Mike Kudla, who threw a 90 in Kirwan's "Explosion Quotient" formula would have actually made a roster.

Too bad he was injured the whole time when we signed him. I would have liked to seen if healthy what he could have done on the field. No matters though because his opportunity was blown by injury.