Max Starks Signs Tender

[Super Dave]

From Ed Bouchette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08060/861352-66.stm

The Steelers did make one significant contract offer before free agency began; it went to backup offensive tackle Max Starks. They tendered him the required one-year deal of $6,895,000 when they made him their transition player last week.

Of course, Starks will never see that money from the Steelers. He has not yet signed the tender, but the Steelers cannot afford to pay him that much money for 2008. Not only would it collapse their salary cap plans, it would make him the highest-paid player on the team.

Either coach Mike Tomlin and his new staff made a monumental mistake when they bumped Starks from his starting job at right tackle after two years last season in favor of Willie Colon, or the Steelers had other things in mind when they made him their transition player.

It does buy them an extra seven days if Starks signs elsewhere, because they can elect to match any contract he signs in free agency and keep him (if they do not, he leaves without compensation). Had they not made him their transition player, Starks could have signed elsewhere for a relative pittance and the Steelers would have had little recourse.

Now, the Steelers hope Starks does sign elsewhere for a pittance because it would be easy for them to match. If he signs for a lot, they can let him go. But what if he wants to come in and sign the one-year deal for nearly $7 million? It's likely they will pull the offer before he can find a pen.

Sources say they have not even tried to negotiate a long-term deal with Starks. The reasoning is another old Steelers philosophy: They do not want to give him a starting point, so he can shop their deal around to other teams. There are two ways that Starks will remain with the Steelers next season -- if he receives little interest from other teams, or if he signs a contract with another team the Steelers believe is reasonable to match.

[Supersteeler]

So.....the sky is NOT indeed falling?

[Super Dave]

Wouldn't his agent have a copy of the contract, and a pen?

[Irv24]

Bye Max. Been nice knowing ya.

[BillvinCowbert]

Well, given what some of these other turds are getting, I would think Max could get himself an offer for 5 years and 25-30 million. The funny part will be when we match.

[avoidlloyd]

that would be some funny shit...from bench boy to breaking us off at the bank.

[Blind Official]

Well, this is all a matter of perspective.

You know how people keep whining and pointing out that it's either Faneca or Ben? If that's true, then it's also true that the Starks deal could keep them from signing Ben right now OR let Ben's deal be affected by other QBs signing. For instance, Derrick Anderson's deal might have pushed Ben's deal higher. It's possible.

I wonder if the Raider people are just complete morons. I mean, when Charles Woodson signed their franchise tag and guaranteed his money and screwed them, no one there figured that they could just grab a pen away from him? It's that simple?

Really, the Starks thing doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it does NOT make sense logically and it also shoestrings the FO in the short term.

[rossi]

With Faneca now a JET and with the premise we draft a solid tackle in round 1(Williams perhaps) what about Starks to LG to replace AF. He can play on the left side we already know that. Just a thought.

[BLITZ 43]

With Faneca now a JET and with the premise we draft a solid tackle in round 1(Williams perhaps) what about Starks to LG to replace AF. He can play on the left side we already know that. Just a thought.

I think if we keep Starks he has to play OT we are so thin there now. I think Kemo will be his replacement and I also feel Colon is better suited for OT and maybe we could finally give up on Mahan as a center and draft one or maybe grab one via FA or see what Stapleton has and move Mahan to OG as well. That would give us Simmons, Kemo, Colon and Mahan to fight for the OG spots.

[Vader]

Doesn't this team have around 6 OGs now? Everybody can't play guard we need tackles as well.

[Hollywood Bags]

Putting a 6'7" , slow, soft Tackle at LG would be a huge mistake, especially at the dollar amount he will screw the Steelers out of.

[kurtistb]

Doesn't this team have around 6 OGs now? Everybody can't play guard we need tackles as well.

LOL, for whatever reason that made me laugh. I get a kick out of the he's not suited for tackle lets move him to guard argument.

[Pilz]

Starks will not sign the offer unless it is his last resort, late in the off-season. Players hate taking the tenders because they get nothing guaranteed up front. He would get 1/16th of that amount every game. He will sign a longer term deal - either here or somewhere else.

[Super Heathen]

Once again, Starks played very well at LT when Smith went out. In fact, he played above average and that was enough to make other teams take notice. The Steelers caught wind of this and were FUBAR.

Nobody knows what is going to happen but the mismanagement of this line is laughable. WTF is going on here? What is the plan? We have a franchise QB for the 1st time in decades and the likes of Mahan, Simmons, and Colon are his bodyguards. Adding insult to injury is Larry Zierlein.

But we'll be fine...yep. No question.

[SteelrzGirl]

2008 is a bad year. Mark my words.

[Hollywood Bags]

Probably true with our schedule , poor assistant coaching staff and our OLine but maybe the draft brings at least 2 new starters on the OLine and Stapleton can replace the human turnstile at center.

[SteelrzGirl]

Im not hopeful. Something just stinks. This is the first time in a long time I didnt even realize when free agency started. I havent looked at one draft board and Im not even missing football.

Something is really wrong.

[Hollywood Bags]

I think the fact the Patriots cheated for years, the Rooney's knew it and helped cover it up adds to the fact the NFL is just not on the up and up. That is the cancer that may kill the NFL, hard to get excited about a crooked product.

[SteelrzGirl]

Thats pretty much how I feel. sigh.

[Hollywood Bags]

One reason I am thrilled to have found this site is posters like TMC, etc. I love to read their take on the draft and the prospects, I have never watched the draft, didn't know Ben Roethlisberger from Ben Vereen prior to the draft but find myself reading everything on this board about mock drafts and poossible OLIne prospects, etc. I still won't watch the draft but will be here the same day to hear TMC and others takes on our picks.

[schoondog]

Im not hopeful. Something just stinks. This is the first time in a long time I didnt even realize when free agency started. I havent looked at one draft board and Im not even missing football.

Something is really wrong.

Find a bottle of something and drink it.

[Blind Official]

One reason I am thrilled to have found this site is posters like TMC, etc. I love to read their take on the draft and the prospects, I have never watched the draft, didn't know Ben Roethlisberger from Ben Vereen prior to the draft but find myself reading everything on this board about mock drafts and poossible OLIne prospects, etc. I still won't watch the draft but will be here the same day to hear TMC and others takes on our picks.

If you're doing all the homework beforehand, you might as well be there experiencing it live with the rest of us. Turn it on and you'll be hooked

[TMC]

If you're doing all the homework beforehand, you might as well be there experiencing it live with the rest of us. Turn it on and you'll be hooked

Its like crack. Get a case of beer and a batch of hot wings.....laugh at the Browns/Bengals, moan when your favorite goes 2 picks ahead of your slot (Sidney Rice).....and then BITCH LIKE HELL when we take a TE.


Best of times......

[Blind Official]

Its like crack. Get a case of beer and a batch of hot wings.....laugh at the Browns/Bengals, moan when your favorite goes 2 picks ahead of your slot (Sidney Rice).....and then BITCH LIKE HELL when we take a TE.


Best of times......

What he said.

Plus, you'll remember actual picks for the rest of your life:

Troy Edwards over Kearse

Leonard Little one pick before Chris Conrad (in the 3rd round while Myron, Tunch and I talked on the radio and Myron loved the OT)

The list goes on and on. it's like a Christmas for adults in my house, but Colbert usually ends up giving me a terd wrapped in a box 70% of the time...

[JohnnyO]

2008 is a bad year. Mark my words.
Thing is, with Faneca gone Starks is probably the best OL we have. Frankly I never thought he was that bad. The demotion still baffles me when everybody else, except one, played pretty bad.

[TheStoneMan]

When was the last time we used the transistion tag on a player and who?

[donzz]

Thing is, with Faneca gone Starks is probably the best OL we have. Frankly I never thought he was that bad. The demotion still baffles me when everybody else, except one, played pretty bad.

finally someone on the same wave length as me

[ConnecticutDan]

Wouldn't his agent have a copy of the contract, and a pen?


You would think so. If you make someone an offer it's either verbal or written. If you're Starks, how can you not accept that? Sign it, take the huge money and go forward from there. He's not going to get offered Faneca money and whatever guaranteed money he gets from another team will be much less.

[Vader]

Thing is, with Faneca gone Starks is probably the best OL we have. Frankly I never thought he was that bad. The demotion still baffles me when everybody else, except one, played pretty bad.

I actually like Starks. I'm starting to worry more about the coaches evaluation of the players. Mahan starting over Okobi, Mahan being signed at all, Colon over Starks at RT ETC...

[TMC]

I actually like Starks. I'm starting to worry more about the coaches evaluation of the players. Mahan starting over Okobi, Mahan being signed at all, Colon over Starks at RT ETC...

I agree. The thing is, when you hire a new coach, you have to give him that leeway to see if he has it or not. I think we see that Tomlin should coach and the FO should handle getting the talent. Mahan was a bone thrown to Tomlin. I think that was his first/last for a few seasons.

[Silent]

Unless the FO is looking at moving Starks to LT, and wants to see the money he would command at RT....kind of a bait ans switch :D
We still haven't heard about Marvel.

[donzz]

I dont know if you guys know this , but I have been a friend of max's and his family for 12+ years I would like to see him play out his career here but I think someone will offer crazy money and he will go

[Vader]

I agree. The thing is, when you hire a new coach, you have to give him that leeway to see if he has it or not. I think we see that Tomlin should coach and the FO should handle getting the talent. Mahan was a bone thrown to Tomlin. I think that was his first/last for a few seasons.

If Mahan represents Tomlin's player evaluation then he shouldn't be allowed the war room on draft day. I'm sure I've seen a worse center before.... I just can't remember one.

[BuckeyeSteel]

I dont know if you guys know this , but I have been a friend of max's and his family for 12+ years I would like to see him play out his career here but I think someone will offer crazy money and he will go

Well??? What is his take on all this?

[Jer]

I agree with SG, something just isn't right. Maybe it's just me, but from what I've been reading, there seems to be a difference between what managment wants and who the coaches feel they need. I realize this in itself is normal, as Noll and Dan bumped heads on several players, So did Cowher and Dan...but it seems to be a larger difference this season than seasons past.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Blind Official]

I agree. The thing is, when you hire a new coach, you have to give him that leeway to see if he has it or not. I think we see that Tomlin should coach and the FO should handle getting the talent. Mahan was a bone thrown to Tomlin. I think that was his first/last for a few seasons.

Either that or it was all Colbert's fault because Tomlin was coming in new and unprepared.

I know which way I'd bet on

[SteelPastor]

The point as I see it... is this: The Steelers can pull the tag off of him at any moment. I believe that the Steelers tagged him just to get him past the first flurry of overpriced free agent signings. To protect him so to speak because some STUPID team would have overpaid for him. In a few days, the signings will be more realistic (dollars wise) and will allow the Steelers to match a normal rational offer... rather than one that is fueled by Free Agent Fever. Just my thoughts.

[Super Dave]

The point as I see it... is this: The Steelers can pull the tag off of him at any moment. I believe that the Steelers tagged him just to get him past the first flurry of overpriced free agent signings. To protect him so to speak because some STUPID team would have overpaid for him. In a few days, the signings will be more realistic (dollars wise) and will allow the Steelers to match a normal rational offer... rather than one that is fueled by Free Agent Fever. Just my thoughts.

You mean like top 5 money, to the tune of 7 million a year stupid?

The only thing keeping Starks from that kind of payday is a pen.

[1st & 10]

Use invisible ink.



Voters are told pen had 'invisible ink'
BLANK BALLOTS | Staffers try to reach 20 who thought they'd voted

February 6, 2008
BY ANNIE SWEENEY Staff Reporter/asweeney@suntimes.com

When it comes to election shenanigans, Chicago has been accused of just about everything.

But invisible ink?

Twenty voters at a Far North Side precinct who found their ink pens not working were told by election judges not to worry.

It's invisible ink, officials said. The scanner will count it.

But their votes weren't recorded after all.

[Pilz]

You mean like top 5 money, to the tune of 7 million a year stupid?

The only thing keeping Starks from that kind of payday is a pen.

As I said before, players will only sign a tender if it is a last resort. Signing a tender means no money up front, no guaranteed money, and he would get 1/16th of the tender as each game check,

Trust me, Max will be working with other teams and the Steelers on a long term deal for a while, long before he considers signing the tender.

[Super Dave]

As I said before, players will only sign a tender if it is a last resort. Signing a tender means no money up front, no guaranteed money, and he would get 1/16th of the tender as each game check,

Trust me, Max will be working with other teams and the Steelers on a long term deal for a while, long before he considers signing the tender.

What's the source of your information?


If a player signs a contract after receiving the transition tag, his original team can not use the tag again on any player until the contract has expired. The exception is if the player first signs a transition offer sheet, which is a one-year contract equal to the average salary of the top ten players in the league at the player's position, or a twenty percent salary increase, whichever is greater. This contract was not historically guaranteed, however, it will be guaranteed starting in 2007 per the collective bargaining agreement agreed to by the NFL owners and the NFLPA on March 8, 2006. If the player signs the offer sheet prior to a long-term contract, the player's team can then use the tag the next year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_tag

[Super Dave]

http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/faq.asp

For the Transition Tag, the wage is the average of the top 10 players at the player's position. The tagged player is free to negotiate with any other team. Although the original team is not entitled to any form of compensation from the new team, the original teams does maintain the Right of First Refusal, which in essence means that a Transition Player is like a RFA with the lowest tender offer.

If the player signs the one-year tender for the Franchise Tag, then that salary is guaranteed. Historically, that was not true of the Transition Tag; however, under the latest extension to the CBA, the one-year salary for the Transition Player is also a guaranteed one-year contract.

[Pilz]

OK, I was wrong about it being guaranteed. I didn't know that changed. But regardless, all players want up front money (signing bonus), and avoid signing the transition/franchise offers unless they have no other options. My point is that it is ridiculous to think that we'd better do something quick because Starks is going to hurry up and sign the offer.

Most of the info I got was from hearing player interviews onn NFL radio. The one that stands out was Donovan Darius of the Jags, who was franchised two years in a row and was not pleased.

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

2008 is a bad year. Mark my words.


Nay Sayer!!

[Super Dave]

But regardless, all players want up front money (signing bonus), and avoid signing the transition/franchise offers unless they have no other options. My point is that it is ridiculous to think that we'd better do something quick because Starks is going to hurry up and sign the offer.


I agree, it is all about upfront money. That's all that is Guaranteed

And If I were Starks agent he would of signed that offer sheet.

Donte Stallworth just locked up with the browns for 7 years, he got 10 million guaranteed. and that's spread out over the length of the contract.

Starks can get 70% of that spread out over one year and go into FA again next year in a significantly enhanced position. He will undoubtedly start next year and enter FA as a starter, looking for starter type money.

Yes, he could get hurt, but I doubt that it would lower his value much more than it is right now. as a benched, back up tackle going into FA. He could also get hurt after signing a Stallworth type contract, get cut, and would only get the guaranteed money.

I would advise my client to sign the offer sheet, get all he can get in hand, and double his his chances for a FA payday by entering it twice in one year.

[TMC]

IF he signed the offer, he could then be traded as well. He would have no control over where he went. The new team would just have to accept his salary. He could be sent to a team or a city he just does not want to go to and then be forced to play out 1 year.

Signing the tender also screws him a little in his negotiations. Once signed, he has to get permission to talk to teams.

[Super Dave]

And if I were Art, The Deuce, I sure as hell wouldn't of tied up 7 million in cap space for a guy I had not even begun to negotiate with, who I have no intention of signing for that amount, while I was trying to sign a franchise QB to a long term deal, with a back up contingency plan of, we will pull the offer, or hide the pen if he does want the 7 million.

[Super Dave]

IF he signed the offer, he could then be traded as well. He would have no control over where he went. The new team would just have to accept his salary. He could be sent to a team or a city he just does not want to go to and then be forced to play out 1 year.

Signing the tender also screws him a little in his negotiations. Once signed, he has to get permission to talk to teams.

He still gets 7 million, he still gets 2 shots @ FA in one years time.

Agent Super Dave says, Show me the money now, and I'll show you even more later.

[TMC]

He still gets 7 million, he still gets 2 shots @ FA in one years time.

Agent Super Dave says, Show me the money now, and I'll show you even more later.

Actually, not really. He could get traded to a team and if he plays well, they could tag him again. If he goes there and sucks, then he gets to see free agency but his price could have dropped significantly.

While Starks injured his knee and was benched last season, he played in a few games to end the season and played REALLY well. He was a starter on the Super Bowl team. I think he bounced his value real close to where it once was and then got hurt. There are teams that won't hold that against him.

Hell, Andre Davis just banked $4M per season. There are average WRs cranking in $5M. A starting OT, and that is what I would consider him, should bank an average of $5-6M per season, even if he is not a stud. At 24, he could easily sign for 6 years, meaning he would pass up a 6 year, 30-36M contract, with probably double digits guaranteed.....and definitely his tender in a signing bonus.

The agent will not want to give up control of who he can negotiate with UNTIL he is sure there are no suitors.

[Super Dave]

It was reported February 28, 2008, that the Texans had reached an agreement with Davis to stay on the team. He will receive $16 million over 4 years, with $8 million guaranteed.

MAX has 7 Million Guaranteed on a 1 year commitment, with another FA payday to come in one year when he is 25

[BillvinCowbert]

He still gets 7 million, he still gets 2 shots @ FA in one years time.

Agent Super Dave says, Show me the money now, and I'll show you even more later.

I agree... if he's getting offers in the neighborhood of $4-5 million per year with something like $8 million in guarantees, he's better taking the $7 million guarantee now, then taking the $8 million in guarantees next year.

If we were to get tagged again next year, he'd get a 20% increase, or $8.4MM. That's $15.4 million over 2 years, PLUS the free agency ride the following year. Of course, we can always try the "hide the pen" strategy.

I mean, has he even been SNIFFED yet?

[JohnnyO]

I never thought Starks was bad and wondered why he got benched for much of the season. At this point he's probably the best OL we have. Ain't any of them going to make the Pro Bowl any time soon.

[Steelz]

This is beginning to look more & more like a good idea... http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_557587.html




Steelers' Max protection

By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, March 17, 2008

The NFL salary cap is at an all-time high. Teams are spending money like they're playing Monopoly. Free-agent offensive tackles, especially those bearing Super Bowl rings, are supposedly in huge demand.

So why is Max Starks still without a new contract?

And why does it seem like the Steelers know something that the rest of us don't?

Starks appeared to be in line for a significant pay increase when the Steelers made him a transition free agent at a cost of $6.9 million in 2008.

If Starks finds a buyer, it forces the Steelers to ante up nearly $7 million if they want to keep him, or lose him without compensation.

The Steelers, who have legitimate offensive line concerns, gambled teams wouldn't be beating down Starks' door.

Turns out, the Steelers were right.

Remind me to ask Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert to select my lottery numbers the next time I see him.

Unless some team has a change of heart and lavishes major dollars on Starks, he'll have to play on the Steelers' terms, or not play at all next season.

So far, so good for the Steelers -- and still no offers that we know of for Starks.

Hard to figure how the Steelers knew how the free-agent market would play out, especially the market for offensive linemen in a league desperate for tackles -- particulary tackles who have started in a Super Bowl.

At 26, Starks is still relatively young.

He was the starting right tackle in 2005. According to the Steelers media guide, he threw a key block during Willie Parker's record 75-yard touchdown run in Super Bowl XL.

Starks was the starting right tackle for 14 games in 2006. Depending on who you ask, he missed the last two games either because of a knee injury, or because the Steelers wanted to take a look at rookie Willie Colon, a fourth-round draft pick.

Apparently, the new coach saw the same thing the old coach did, because Colon was the starting right tackle in 2007, with Starks backing him up. Starks moved over and displayed versatility at left tackle when he filled in for injured starter Marvel Smith late in the season.

Starks, though, hurt his knee in the final regular-season game at Baltimore. Little-used Trai Essex replaced Starks in the playoff game against Jacksonville.

Since the season ended, Starks has been rehabilitating his knee and waiting for the phone to ring with good news.

Any day now, Starks may land the big contract that could finally force the Steelers' hand. Yeah, and cigarettes don't cause cancer, either.
-

So basically we'll be paying Starks minimum wage by the time it's all said & done. This changes the way i felt when i first heard about his contract... i was like wtf? I wonder how Max feels about all this. lol.

[pete]

Thats what happens when ya'll freak the fuck out about something that isn't a big deal.

[Steelz]

lol i know... when i first heard the story awhile back i thought we put the franchise tag on him, i almost broke the tv. lol.

[bfox20]

I think even they did what they did he is depth at tackle but who is the one to take Faneca's place I hope he is in the draft if not in free agency.:confused:

[Steelz]

I think even they did what they did he is depth at tackle but who is the one to take Faneca's place I hope he is in the draft if not in free agency.:confused:

diffinitly will be in the draft. Unless they feel real good about Kemo. But then again, everybody can play different positions on the Oline so they could draft a takle or center & still have every position filled.

[Steelerfan81]

Finally someone puts out an article saying this so all the tools that freaked out can read it and calm down.

[Steelz]

Finally someone puts out an article saying this so all the tools that freaked out can read it and calm down.

Im sure nobody thought he was really going to get $7 mil. this year.

[Parasite]

So.....can Starks sign the transition offer and get 7 million this year or not?

[pete]

So.....can Starks sign the transition offer and get 7 million this year or not?

I'm sure if he wanted to, he could. I'm sure there is a gentlemanly agreement between him and the team that something will get done. They just had to get through Ben's contract and the first few weeks of free agency.

[Steelz]

So.....can Starks sign the transition offer and get 7 million this year or not?

as soon as he walks into the Steeler's office to do so, there's gonna be a 3yr/ 3 million offer instead. They can change the offer before he ever signs it. And if he dont, it's still standing as 7mil with the league that has to be matched... im guessing of course but thats what the indications are.

[dobre shunka]

If you guys find comfort in anything Harris has to say, more power to you. Only the guy has no clue or understanding of how the tags work. Starks can sign that tag at any time and the Steelers are committed to pay the $6.9m.

If Starks finds a buyer, it forces the Steelers to ante up nearly $7 million if they want to keep him, or lose him without compensation.

No it doesn't. It forces the Steelers to match word for word whatever offer sheet from another team Max agrees to. Or they lose him without compensation.

Unless some team has a change of heart and lavishes major dollars on Starks, he'll have to play on the Steelers' terms, or not play at all next season.

Bullshit. All he has to do is sign the tender and he's playing on his terms. They'd have to start him at that wage. Gets paid $7m to audition for another team. Yeah, they got him right where they want him.

So far, so good for the Steelers -- and still no offers that we know of for Starks.

...that he knows of. Yeah, well his probing and research as been stellar up to this point in the article. So that line's gotta be money too.

....particulary tackles who have started in a Super Bowl.

Yeah, Brandon Gorin has really been breaking the bank ever since the Pats let him go.

That whole article came straight from his ever expanding ass.

[McBane]

As I understand it, Starks could walk in and ask to sign the Transition offer today and get one year at $6.9m. The Steelers could counter, but if Starks does not like the counter, he could refuse. The Steelers would then pay him one year at $6.9m or pull the Transition tag and he will be free to sign with anyone with no Steeler right to match the offer.

That's my understanding- someone let me know if I understand wrong.

[Steelz]

If we do end up paying Starks that 6.9 Mil... i'm really gonna question this management. But im sure there has to be something up or else Starks would've signed that day 1. Im pretty sure he knows he's not worth more than 7mil a yr.

[Steelz]

As I understand it, Starks could walk in and ask to sign the Transition offer today and get one year at $6.9m. The Steelers could counter, but if Starks does not like the counter, he could refuse. The Steelers would then pay him one year at $6.9m or pull the Transition tag and he will be free to sign with anyone with no Steeler right to match the offer.

That's my understanding- someone let me know if I understand wrong.

That actually makes the most sense. The main thing the Trans Tag is good for then is slowing down offers so all the other O-linemen will get picked up first leaving Starks left with whatever's left over... I think Max is pretty pissed right now, lol.

[Blind Official]

Finally someone puts out an article saying this so all the tools that freaked out can read it and calm down.

That's really an awful article. Putrid.

[FAB802]

So it's good that nobody wants a guy who will end up starting for us? Okay.

[Super Dave]

I read that article earlier and found nothing in it post worthy, it's like Harris had to put something together and this is what he came up with.

Absolutely nothing in there is newsworthy.

[Sean]

I wonder if Blind Official and dobre shunka have ever tripped the AE Detector. They're always in the same thread and agree on everything...

Just sayin'.

If Max Starks is what kept us from taking a look at this guy (as well as Justin Hartwig), especially after seeing what he signed elsewhere for, then I'm hating this move right now:

49ers | Team signs B. Johnson
Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:26:06 -0700

Matt Maiocco, of The Santa Rosa Press Democrat, reports the San Francisco 49ers signed free-agent WR Bryant Johnson (Cardinals) to a one-year deal worth $2 million Monday, March 17.

[SteelerFan448]

That's really an awful article. Putrid.

What did you expect when you read this?

By John Harris

[BillvinCowbert]

I wonder if Blind Official and dobre shunka have ever tripped the AE Detector. They're always in the same thread and agree on everything...

Just sayin'.
Two of the sharper guys here, without a doubt. Not a surprise that they agree a lot.

Just because John Harris writes for the Trib, that doesn't mean he knows ANYTHING about how the NFL contract system works; and he proved that beyond a reasonable doubt in this piece. But, of course, since it's in the Trib, there are guys here that take it as gospel. There was ZERO substance to that article.

Fans NEED to be worried. Starks could decide to sign that tender tomorrow and force us to pay him $7MM this year - he was a BACKUP last year. Like John Harris said, that brilliant Kevin Colbert has him right where he wants him. The only place I want him is tied to a chair with no access to a writing utensil or a telephone, so we can pull that damn offer off the table.

Sad when message board guys like dobre and BO know more about this stuff than a guy that gets PAID to do it for the Trib.

[TheStoneMan]

I've been trying to figure it out online but to no avail, so i have one final question regarding the steelers/starks transistion tag situation....

If Max Starks decides tomorrow that he wants to forego free agency and decides that he wants to sign the steelers transistion tag offer, ARE THE STEELERS OBLIGATED TO PAY HIM 7.7MIL FOR THIS YEAR? or do they have the option of removeing the tag whenever they feel necessary(i.e when he decides to sign and they decides that thats actually a lot of money for a guy like starks..??

[BillvinCowbert]

I've been trying to figure it out online but to no avail, so i have one final question regarding the steelers/starks transistion tag situation....

If Max Starks decides tomorrow that he wants to forego free agency and decides that he wants to sign the steelers transistion tag offer, ARE THE STEELERS OBLIGATED TO PAY HIM 7.7MIL FOR THIS YEAR? or do they have the option of removeing the tag whenever they feel necessary(i.e when he decides to sign and they decides that thats actually a lot of money for a guy like starks..??

No one knows for 100% certain. But, it would seem to reason that there is a "first mover" advantage. If Starks signs the tender, announces his intentions to the league, and delivers it to Colbert, he will earn $7 million next year. There's just no way that the NFL and NFLPA would allow the Steelers to "change their mind" as Starks is handing over the signed document.

I would say 99.9% sure the answer to your question is "yes" but there isn't anything official that would say otherwise...

[TheStoneMan]

No one knows for 100% certain. But, it would seem to reason that there is a "first mover" advantage. If Starks signs the tender, announces his intentions to the league, and delivers it to Colbert, he will earn $7 million next year. There's just no way that the NFL and NFLPA would allow the Steelers to "change their mind" as Starks is handing over the signed document.

I would say 99.9% sure the answer to your question is "yes" but there isn't anything official that would say otherwise...

i think you're probably right, so that essentially works out better for starks doesn't it? He can shop around find his best deal, and if he isnt as highly coveted as he thought he was a $7.7m fallback option.. i dont see how this is a benefit for us at all..

[smithessmokin]

lol i know... when i first heard the story awhile back i thought we put the franchise tag on him, i almost broke the tv. lol.

to bad we didnt put the frachise tag on faneca. might have earned two first round draft picks. that would have been worth it.

[McBane]

No one knows for 100% certain. But, it would seem to reason that there is a "first mover" advantage. If Starks signs the tender, announces his intentions to the league, and delivers it to Colbert, he will earn $7 million next year. There's just no way that the NFL and NFLPA would allow the Steelers to "change their mind" as Starks is handing over the signed document.

I would say 99.9% sure the answer to your question is "yes" but there isn't anything official that would say otherwise...

I'm not sure either, but assume it is as you describe above.

Putting the tag on him is the "offer". It appears he can accept the offer at any time by signing it. Steelers can rescind the offer at any time before acceptance by removing the tag and making him a free agent.

At this point, if I were Starks, I seriously think about going in tomorrow and signing that offer.

[BLITZ 43]

I still am confussed about the tag and why the Steelers did it. Everyone here knows we aren't going to pay that kinda money for Starks but my question is why wouldn't the Steelers not remove the tag and us that 7 mil cap space on guys that would have made this team better like Hadnot and Olivea? We might not have been able to sign both but it would have been close but we will never know cause we wasted space on Starks and #1 he is not worth it and #2 we still have a chance at not signing him and we are left with nothing. The front office makes pretty good decisions most of the time otherwise we wouldn't be where we are every year but this Starks and Mahan deals are really hard to swallow.

[Blind Official]

I wonder if Blind Official and dobre shunka have ever tripped the AE Detector. They're always in the same thread and agree on everything...

Just sayin'.

Great minds think alike, though he's definitely smarter than I am.

There is smart and there is stupid. Harris is stupid.

[Parasite]

Harris I believe used to work for the Toledo Blade. He was dumb then too.

[topseed]

By John Harris
TRIBUNE-REVIEW

He was the starting right tackle in 2005. According to the Steelers media guide, he threw a key block during Willie Parker's record 75-yard touchdown run in Super Bowl XL.


Why the hell would he need the Steelers media guide to tell him that?

[Blind Official]

Why the hell would he need the Steelers media guide to tell him that?

that was my favorite part too.

[dobre shunka]

... though he's definitely smarter than I am.



I disagree.

[SteelerFan448]

Why the hell would he need the Steelers media guide to tell him that?

I guess he missed the Steelers biggest game in about 25 years.

[Super Dave]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3354694

[Super Dave]

I guess he will see that money after all.

Starks Signs Tender

Steelers tackle Max Starks cleared up any uncertainty about his feelings about playing for the Steelers in 2008 by signing his transition tender.


Starks, 26, was given the transition tender because the Steelers, who lost Alan Faneca to free agency, didn't want to suffer too big a loss on the offensive line. A year ago, center Jeff Hartings retired. Even though Starks didn't finish the season as the starter, the Steelers felt he was too valuable to lose.

As a transition player, Starks had the ability to sign with another team and give the Steelers a chance to match. By signing the tender, Starks will be with the team this year unless he is traded. Starks signed a one-year, $6.895 million contract.

Starks missed the end of the 2007 regular season and postseason after suffering damage to the meniscus cartilage in his right knee and requring surgery.

Starks started four games in place of tackle Marvel Smith in 2007. The four-year veteran was the starting right tackle for two years, but lost his job to second-year pro Willie Colon in training camp.

John Clayton is a senior writer at ESPN.com. Information from ESPN.com senior writer Len Pasquarelli was used in this report.

[Super Dave]

COngratulations Max, you lost your job last year and are rewarded by being paid the AVG of the top 10 lineman in the league.

You Da Man!

[Super Dave]

Hey Bouchette, I guess the Steelers didn't hide the pen in a super secret place......John Harris says not to worry, the Steelers can still pull the offer.

[tnsteele95]

Wow, Cohlbert's days in Pittsburgh should be done.

[pete]

Wow, Cohlbert's days in Pittsburgh should be done.

Why? .............

[Vader]

Hey Bouchette, I guess the Steelers didn't hide the pen in a super secret place......John Harris says not to worry, the Steelers can still pull the offer.

Somebody needs to tell Starks that the contract isn't guaranteed and can be pulled at any time.

[Super Dave]

Somebody needs to tell Starks that the contract isn't guaranteed and can be pulled at any time.

Dude, I'm already on the edge......LOL

[Vader]

Dude, I'm already on the edge......LOL

If they don't sign him to a long term deal and get this 6.9 million off this years cap somebody should be fired. Maybe Rooney took Harris' word for it or read Bouchette's piece???

[TDX27]

He definitely is NOT work 7 mil a year. I sure hope they restructure a longer term deal or get rid of him. That's a lot of cash to pay for someone who isn't guaranteed to even be a starter next year.

[warriors42]

Blows my mind that we let AF walk, and then sign this tender with Starks, this fucking team is falling apart. If they let this stand some one needs fucking fired..

[Stlrs4Life]

I agree, either sign him long term, or cut him after we see what comes during the draft.

[jasen@cardiostack]

speechless, absolutely speechless. this team is going in the wrong direction fast.

[stevew]

They can still pull this, right?






lol j/k

[kurtistb]

speechless, absolutely speechless. this team is going in the wrong direction fast.

once they got that black head coach you should have known it was the beginning of the end :rolleyes:

[Sluzilla]

evidently the FO thinks he's worth it...hell...he did play better at LT than Faneca did at LG last year...so who knows...i'll wait and see...

question though...even though he signed the tender...they can still sign him to a long term deal which would negate it right?...or am i completely wrong on that?...

at this point...i'm pretty sure they both want a long term deal...hell...Starks knows he didn't get ANY play in FA this year...what makes him think he will next year?...his best bet is a long term deal...

[LetMePlay]

I blame Arians.

[dobre shunka]

evidently the FO thinks he's worth it...hell...he did play better at LT than Faneca did at LG last year...so who knows...i'll wait and see...

question though...even though he signed the tender...they can still sign him to a long term deal which would negate it right?...or am i completely wrong on that?...

at this point...i'm pretty sure they both want a long term deal...hell...Starks knows he didn't get ANY play in FA this year...what makes him think he will next year?...his best bet is a long term deal...

To answer your question, yes they can still sign him to a long term deal between now and sometime in July.

Any you're also right that the FO must think Starks is worth it. But I'm not at all convinced Tomlin, Ariens or Zierlein think he's worth it. There is a disconnect somewhere between the coaches and the FO, and it sure looks like Colbert is ramming Starks down Tomlin's throat.

[Steelz]

Unbelievable... If this deal actually do go down & Starks end up playing for $7 Mil this year somebody's diffinitly getting canned...Not to mention how many unhappy players there will be.. I wonder what Deshea thinks about all this. I rather it go to somebody who's been underrated bussin their balls & starting than a piece of sht sitting on the sidelines... They mean to tell me there wasnt a single OT free-agent this year valued more than Starks that we could of paid less than 7 Mil? Now all we got to do to top it off is draft a Qb first round.

[Ben#7]

If they don't sign him to a long term deal and get this 6.9 million off this years cap somebody should be fired. Maybe Rooney took Harris' word for it or read Bouchette's piece???

Maybe they are waiting to see who they can get in the draft before they make a decision on wheather or not to sign Starks to a long term contract. Also maybe they will surprise us all and try to trade him on draft day.

Bottom Line. Don't worry. The Steelers have a plan. The would not be as successful as they have been if they did business without thinking things through.

[kev4heels]

evidently the FO thinks he's worth it...hell...he did play better at LT than Faneca did at LG last year...so who knows...i'll wait and see...

question though...even though he signed the tender...they can still sign him to a long term deal which would negate it right?...or am i completely wrong on that?...

at this point...i'm pretty sure they both want a long term deal...hell...Starks knows he didn't get ANY play in FA this year...what makes him think he will next year?...his best bet is a long term deal...

Good observation Slu...you are absolutely right. It would be in Max's best interest to try and secure a long term deal. Heck, he should thank the Steelers for giving him the 1 yr deal @ 7Mil, since NOONE pursued him!

[Buster]

If I understand correctly, it is all salary & we can cut him with no cap it if they do not work out a long term deal.

[Vader]

Maybe they are waiting to see who they can get in the draft before they make a decision on wheather or not to sign Starks to a long term contract. Also maybe they will surprise us all and try to trade him on draft day.

Bottom Line. Don't worry. The Steelers have a plan. The would not be as successful as they have been if they did business without thinking things through.

Why would anybody want him in a trade? They won't have time to work out a long term deal on draft day with Starks and NOBODY is going to pay him 7 MILLION a year. IMHO the Steelers crapped the bed with this.

If I understand correctly, it is all salary & we can cut him with no cap it if they do not work out a long term deal.

It is a guaranteed contract and the entire 7 million goes against the cap this year even if we cut him.

[Super Dave]

Good observation Slu...you are absolutely right. It would be in Max's best interest to try and secure a long term deal. Heck, he should thank the Steelers for giving him the 1 yr deal @ 7Mil, since NOONE pursued him!

No one pursued him because

1) he was tagged
2) They would have to beat 7 million upfront
3) He lost his job and was a back up tackle on one of the worst lines in the league.

In 2008, after signing his tender he will play, he will start, and he can go into FA again next year in a much greater position, for he will be a starer, not a back up.

[Blind Official]

So, where are all of the people who talked about this all offseason like Starks would never see that money and this was a good thing for the Steelers to have done?

Come on, I'm hearing crickets at the moment...you know who you are...

[Dgenx321]

What the hell are the Steelers FO smoking??

[Super Dave]

There must be a gentlemens agreement...right?....because the steelers have a plan....right??

Because......they can't be THIS stupid?.....can they???

[Coryea]

evidently the FO thinks he's worth it...hell...he did play better at LT than Faneca did at LG last year...so who knows...i'll wait and see...



I wouldn't go that far, in the two games Starks started at LT he gave up 3 sacks, two of which resulted in fumbles.

I'd like to keep Starks around because he is the 2nd best OT we have if Smith is healthy, but at 7 million, no F'n way.

[Blind Official]

Bump...because I find it hilarious

[Blind Official]

Bump...I don't know when to stop...

[FlaStGrad]

I heard (Savran's show?) that even if he is cut, a transition tag carries with it a guarantee. He will get that money even if he is on the street June 1.

[Coryea]

I heard (Savran's show?) that even if he is cut, a transition tag carries with it a guarantee. He will get that money even if he is on the street June 1.

so basically he'll cost us 7 million whether he's on the team or not?

[deljzc]

The money is guaranteed and the salary cap hit is $6.895 million even if we cut him.

We can renengotiate a new contract before July, as was stated earlier which then erases the big cap hit. However, this dollar value obviously sets the price for the new contract. Any reasonable agent at this point is looking for at least Simmons' money: 5-years, $25 million with $8.5 million in year one. If I was Starks I wouldn't accept anything less.

What a complete joke. This backfired in Colbert's face big time. And I agree, there is a serious disconnect between the coaching staff and Colbert if Colbert thinks a backup tackle is worth the same money as Simmons.

The whole idea we decided to invest a LOT more money in Simmons, Starks and Mahan vs. Faneca is just ludicrous. In fact Mahan + Starks = Faneca for all intensive purposes at this point against the salary cap, because Starks is going to get a contract just so Colbert can save face and say "This is what we wanted all along".

Even those fans that think letting Faneca go for money reasons was the right thing to do can't honestly tell me they'd rather have Mahan + Starks over the next 4 seaons, can they?

[Doc]

even i will put my pom-poms down for this one.

did starks even visit anyone else??

[deljzc]

Bump...I don't know when to stop...

Keep finding them.... I agree it's hilarious too.

[Chicoman]

Nothing like flushing $7MM down the shitter on a guy who can't even crack the starting lineup!

WTF Tomlin & company???

FUCK UP #1 for 2008:mad:

[tibor]

he receives little interest from other teams...Well, for whatever it's worth, that's exactly what happened...

Max Starks, welcome back to the Steelers. Let's see if you really wanna stick around....

[CornerBlitz]

Starks will sign no contract that doesn't pay him at least the 7 million up front, so we are stuck with paying this stiff 7 million for one year or hurting the long term cap with a huge contract for a bad player. Bad move by Colbert, real bad.

[tibor]

Im not hopeful. Something just stinks. This is the first time in a long time I didnt even realize when free agency started. I havent looked at one draft board and Im not even missing football. Something is really wrong.Let's hope Tomlin & Colbert and the rest of the staff aren't feeling your utter weariness and discontent regarding Steelers football. ;)

They do get a paycheck, so if for no other reason than putting on a smiley face, I hope they're a bit more positive than that regarding where we're at heading into the draft.

[Super Dave]

This move reeks of Art2 Interference, it has that Steely McBeam, lets keep our players here and franchise Gildong, 68,000 seats should be enough, lets use Ticket Exchange, stench to it.

[OhioSteel]

I can't believe this really happened!!! Are they really that stupid? I keep wanting to believe that there is something they understand that we don't but everything pints to this being a major fuck up! $7M a year for a freakin back-up, that's something the Lions, Raiders or other dumb ass teams do!!!

[dobre shunka]

What I'd like to know is if this is truly the greatest tackle class Colbert has seen in 24 years why did he feel compelled to spend $7m on a guy the coaches didn't believe was good enough to start?

[Super Dave]

What I'd like to know is if this is truly the greatest tackle class Colbert has seen in 24 years why did he feel compelled to spend $7m on a guy the coaches didn't believe was good enough to start?

That's a great point....I'm now convinced Justin King is the pick in th 1st

[deljzc]

That's a great point....I'm now convinced Justin King is the pick in th 1st

And we'll get Andre Woodson in the 3rd round too.

[topseed]

Yeah, barely a peep from the "Starks will never see that 7 mill" crowd.

Don't worry, like the one dude said, the Steelers of course have something up their sleeve and plan to trade Starks for a second round pick on draft day. It's all good.

[bradentonfan]

1. he wasn't outplayed at RT by Colon, how could he have been when he was playing LT 99% of pre-season
2. he did outplay Smith when he got the starts at LT
3. you can't trade a guy who isn't under contract, now he is
4. he's a much better player than some kids here make him out to be
5. he was a LT at UF, where he is now finally getting to play
6. he's only 25 or 26 years old and WILL get better at his profession
7. whatever sunshine they blow up your asses about Smith being all better and able to play, take it with a grain of salt.... he's over 30 and has had neck problems and back surgery, back surgery has a very low success rate....besides he's only signed for this year
8. it helps that he is actually under contract and on the team before discussing a long term deal
9. if he didn't re-sign and Smith can't play anymore after back surgery, we would have had exactly 2 OT's who have ever played a down in the NFL
10. by the time we pick there may not be any OT's worth it, a definitly not the kind of player to hitch all your horses to and go for broke, good or not
11. who else is actually available at OT, and if so there's probably a reason they're not signed

in conclusion, this is not the end all of this transaction....... and contrary to popular belief, the sky is not falling, and even with this signing the team still only has 4 somewhat expirienced profesional OT's....which is better than only having 3, with one just having major surgery, another coming off a crappy season, and the other having a total of 4 games played of NFL expirience.
its a move that had to be made, and is far from done........... relax

[topseed]

1. he wasn't outplayed at RT by Colon, how could he have been when he was playing LT 99% of pre-season
2. he did outplay Smith when he got the starts at LT
3. you can't trade a guy who isn't under contract, now he is
4. he's a much better player than some kids here make him out to be
5. he was a LT at UF, where he is now finally getting to play
6. he's only 25 or 26 years old and WILL get better at his profession
7. whatever sunshine they blow up your asses about Smith being all better and able to play, take it with a grain of salt.... he's over 30 and has had neck problems and back surgery, back surgery has a very low success rate....besides he's only signed for this year
8. it helps that he is actually under contract and on the team before discussing a long term deal
9. if he didn't re-sign and Smith can't play anymore after back surgery, we would have had exactly 2 OT's who have ever played a down in the NFL
10. by the time we pick there may not be any OT's worth it, a definitly not the kind of player to hitch all your horses to and go for broke, good or not
11. who else is actually available at OT, and if so there's probably a reason they're not signed

in conclusion, this is not the end all of this transaction....... and contrary to popular belief, the sky is not falling, and even with this signing the team still only has 4 somewhat expirienced profesional OT's....which is better than only having 3, with one just having major surgery, another coming off a crappy season, and the other having a total of 4 games played of NFL expirience.
its a move that had to be made, and is far from done........... relax

They had to pay Max Starks the average of the top ten in the league, nearly seven million dollars? You're kidding, right? You don't think perhaps that the Steelers could have negotiated a reasonable multi-year contract with a guy who generated basically no interest whatsoever from any other teams this offseason?

I think Starks is decent, but he's nowhere near the top of his profession, and Pittsburgh is foolish for paying him like he is.

[CornerBlitz]

He has gotten worse the longer he has been in the NFL, a solid starter in 2005, a very poor starter in 2006, benched and mediocre at best in 2007. Dumb move by Colbert, a panic move IMO.

[bradentonfan]

this was the only way to gaurantee a chance of keeping him (tagging him)..... just keeping themselves from getting caught with their dicks in the wind.
his past work may not justify the salary, but if he wasn't tagged I doubt he would have even considered coming back.

[bradentonfan]

I believe it was the price tag that kept other teams away.... if not for the tag he'd already be somewhere else and our line would be really hurting, with even less a chance to fix it.

[bradentonfan]

He has gotten worse the longer he has been in the NFL, a solid starter in 2005, a very poor starter in 2006, benched and mediocre at best in 2007. Dumb move by Colbert, a panic move IMO.

its my opinion that he did not get worse, and there was some behind the scenes politics with the new regeigm that got him benched..... just like the Okobi situation..... does anybody actually believe Chukky got a fair chance or Mahan is actually a better player?
shit like this happens all the time at any workplace when new management comes in

[fedderone]

I have faith in our team.
Always have, always will.
But it doesn't mean I don't often scratch my head at times and yell WTF??!!

[CornerBlitz]

its my opinion that he did not get worse, and there was some behind the scenes politics with the new regeigm that got him benched..... just like the Okobi situation..... does anybody actually believe Chukky got a fair chance or Mahan is actually a better player?
like this happens all the time at any workplace when new management comes in

Point well taken on Okkobi versus Mahan but Starks was awful and I mean awful in 2006 and was mediocre last year, apples to oranges.

[BillvinCowbert]

Yeah, barely a peep from the "Starks will never see that 7 mill" crowd.

Don't worry, like the one dude said, the Steelers of course have something up their sleeve and plan to trade Starks for a second round pick on draft day. It's all good.

It's all good. This is pretty exciting news; now I know how Raiders fans felt when Tommy Kelly re-upped.

But, I know that Colbert has something up his sleeve. Probably still planning on pulling the tender - he can do that at ANY point, you know. But, at this point, the "hide the pen" or "tear up the deal as Max is walking in" plans seem less likely than just dealing him for a 1st rounder next week. I think this is a smokescreen, Colbert is a motherin' Apache when it comes to smoke signals. Don't forget, everyone knew we were taking Timmons last year until we took.....oh, nevermind, bad example.

Hilariously enough, coupled with Kirschke and Eason, plus this, Colbert could draft Justin King at 23 (wait, make that 17 in a trade up), and some people would still be calling him the best GM in the league.

Starks, a backup on one of the worst lines in the league last year, is now going to be paid the average of the top ten OL. I'm lazy, probably the 2nd or 3rd highest cap hit on the STEELERS. Awesome, all hail Kevin Colbert. Oh yeah, and don't forget that our offensive coaches don't even think he's all that good.

[Parasite]

Where are the Colbert nuthuggers now? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

[bradentonfan]

Point well taken on Okkobi versus Mahan but Starks was awful and I mean awful in 2006 and was mediocre last year, apples to oranges.

not to make excuses for him (Starks) but he was injured most of that season without realizing it.... until the Carolina game where he did a great job shutting down Peppers.
so to put it partly in your terms..... we did what we had to do to stay mediocre instead of totally fucked at the OT position hoping to step in shit and come out smelling like a rose after the feeding frenzy on OT's in the draft...... well before we get to pick.... I'd rather take my chances with a guy who actually has played and did have one good season in his NFL career as opposed to some kid just out of college who is hopes and wishes and no proof.

it pretty much comes down to wishing in one hand and shitting in the other..... which one is garaunteed to fill first?

[stevew]

He's not compelled to sign any kind of deal to make it easier for our cap. In fact, unless we're offering a substantial raise over 7m in guaranteed money, it would make almost no sense for his agent to put him into a long term deal. At least the type that would help us.

Play the odds for a minute, there is a pretty small chance that he'll get long term injured this year. So, even if he has a poor 2008 season, he's still looking at a decent sized deal next season from someone. He will start somewhere for us this year, there's no way they'll have a 7m backup.

[Spike]

http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/scare.gif


http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/scare.gif


http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/scare.gif


What did I miss?

[CornerBlitz]

not to make excuses for him (Starks) but he was injured most of that season without realizing it.... until the Carolina game where he did a great job shutting down Peppers.
so to put it partly in your terms..... we did what we had to do to stay mediocre instead of totally ed at the OT position hoping to step in and come out smelling like a rose after the feeding frenzy on OT's in the draft...... well before we get to pick.... I'd rather take my chances with a guy who actually has played and did have one good season in his NFL career as opposed to some kid just out of college who is hopes and wishes and no proof.

it pretty much comes down to wishing in one hand and ting in the other..... which one is garaunteed to fill first?
\

Giving a top 10 salary to one of the laziest, shittiest players in the league is guaranteed
to fill your hand with shit fast

[topseed]

I believe it was the price tag that kept other teams away.... if not for the tag he'd already be somewhere else and our line would be really hurting, with even less a chance to fix it.

Oh, so you mean the exorbitant bill the Steelers are now footing wasn't attractive to other teams? Gee, I wonder why.

[Blind Official]

I believe it was the price tag that kept other teams away.... if not for the tag he'd already be somewhere else and our line would be really hurting, with even less a chance to fix it.

What price tag? Other teams didn't have to pay him 7 million next year. They didn't have to compensate the Steelers either.

[Blind Official]

It's all good. This is pretty exciting news; now I know how Raiders fans felt when Tommy Kelly re-upped.

But, I know that Colbert has something up his sleeve. Probably still planning on pulling the tender - he can do that at ANY point, you know. But, at this point, the "hide the pen" or "tear up the deal as Max is walking in" plans seem less likely than just dealing him for a 1st rounder next week. I think this is a smokescreen, Colbert is a motherin' Apache when it comes to smoke signals. Don't forget, everyone knew we were taking Timmons last year until we took.....oh, nevermind, bad example.

Hilariously enough, coupled with Kirschke and Eason, plus this, Colbert could draft Justin King at 23 (wait, make that 17 in a trade up), and some people would still be calling him the best GM in the league.

Starks, a backup on one of the worst lines in the league last year, is now going to be paid the average of the top ten OL. I'm lazy, probably the 2nd or 3rd highest cap hit on the STEELERS. Awesome, all hail Kevin Colbert. Oh yeah, and don't forget that our offensive coaches don't even think he's all that good.

LOL. Well, if you believe Bouchette in that old article, Starks will be their highest paid player next season.

Course, I'd check, because it's never wise to believe Bouchette...

[Punxsutawney]

What I'd like to know is if this is truly the greatest tackle class Colbert has seen in 24 years why did he feel compelled to spend $7m on a guy the coaches didn't believe was good enough to start?


He can very well feel that this is the best tackle class in 24 years and still feel the need to keep Starks. Even though the upcoming draft does feature a strong crop of tackles, I think the Steelers are starting to have doubts about whether or not they will be able to land a solid prospect at that position on the first day. It is starting to look more and more like even Cherilus will be gone by 23. Combine that with the fact that there still may be some uncertainty surrounding Marvel and his back and one can see why the Steelers felt the need to overpay to keep Starks.

Though it is obvious that the FO values Starks as a player to some degree, I do not think they feel that he is worth 7mil based purely on his ability as a player. The 7mil in 2008 is more a reflection of his value to the team based on the situation they may be in, an expensive insurance policy if you will

Imagine if Marvel either decides to retire prior to training camp or is hindered by his back all season combined with the Steelers being unable to land a solid OT prospect in the draft. Had they allowed Starks to move on, they would be stuck with Essex and Colon at tackle in 2008.

I, like many other people, knew that the prospect of Steelers paying Starks 7mil in 2008 was inevitable once tag was put on Starks. Even though he did not start most of the season, Starks does have some talent and he would have signed with someone had the Steelers not tagged him. The reason he was not pursued was because common sense told other teams that trying to sign Starks to a fair market value contract was a waste of time. There was no way in hell that Starks was going to sign a 2-3 year, 5-6mil dollar deal knowing that he had 7mil guaranteed waiting for him.

[omawho]

Rather than get my drawers in a wad, I think I will just wait and see what comes of all this. I'm thinking the time to toss knives is going into camp.

[Sluzilla]

No one pursued him because

1) he was tagged
2) They would have to beat 7 million upfront
3) He lost his job and was a back up tackle on one of the worst lines in the league.

In 2008, after signing his tender he will play, he will start, and he can go into FA again next year in a much greater position, for he will be a starer, not a back up.

1) that stopped no one from pursuing him...it wasn't the franchise tag...anyone could've offered him a contract...and given up nothing extra...

2) no they wouldn't...

3) i can agree with this...

[Vader]

1) that stopped no one from pursuing him...it wasn't the franchise tag...anyone could've offered him a contract...and given up nothing extra...

2) no they wouldn't...

3) i can agree with this...

That's why it was insane not to remove the tag. If he couldn't have been signed long term then take the tag away. Nobody even offered him a contract let alone 7M a year.

[Sluzilla]

That's why it was insane not to remove the tag. If he couldn't have been signed long term then take the tag away. Nobody even offered him a contract let alone 7M a year.

i agree that as of Friday they should've removed it...

but like i said...evidently they think he's worth it...

i AM wondering if the coaches are on board with the FO on this...

[Super Dave]

Any team would of had to beat 7 million in guaranteed money or Starks would of been a fool to sign it.

7 million guaranteed was the starting point for other teams to begin negotiations.

Therefore the tag and the accompanying salary, inhibited unfettered access to negotiate, preventing teams from pursuing.

There just are not many dumbassed GM's out there willing to pay 7 million guaranteed, a top ten salary for an OT, to a back up, on a shitty line, who lost his job, to a converted guard.

[BillvinCowbert]

1) that stopped no one from pursuing him...it wasn't the franchise tag...anyone could've offered him a contract...and given up nothing extra...

2) no they wouldn't...

3) i can agree with this...

1) It absolutely stopped teams from pursuing him. $7MM in one year was the BASELINE starting point for any negotiation. If someone thought he was worth $4MM per year (or thereabouts), it would have been pointless for them to pursue.

If there were teams that felt he was worth $6MM per year, then I agree, it wouldn't have stopped them. Given that NO ONE pursued him, I think it's obvious what the rest of the league thought of his value.

2) Yes, they would. There's no fucking way Starks would sign a deal with less than $7MM upfront. He's GUARANTEED $7MM upfront AND staring down free agency AGAIN next year! You really think a team could reasonably offer him less than $7MM upfront and have ANY hope of signing him? Seriously? Or is your point that someone *could have* offered $3 million upfront, even though there would be zero chance of him signing. In that case, fine, but it would have been a waste of time (which is the point).

And hilariously, there are still people (not you) that think we could actually TRADE him! Seriously, this is how dumb some people are. But then again, these same people believed that we could "hide the pen" and believed that John Harris knows his ass from a hole in the ground.

And, above all else, this move sends a TERRIBLE message to the coaching staff. This say "eff you, we're making the decisions"... the staff made it clear what they thought of Starks and Colbert came in over the top and trumped them. This is Donahoe/Cowher type stuff all over again.

[Blind Official]

He can very well feel that this is the best tackle class in 24 years and still feel the need to keep Starks. Even though the upcoming draft does feature a strong crop of tackles, I think the Steelers are starting to have doubts about whether or not they will be able to land a solid prospect at that position on the first day. It is starting to look more and more like even Cherilus will be gone by 23. Combine that with the fact that there still may be some uncertainty surrounding Marvel and his back and one can see why the Steelers felt the need to overpay to keep Starks.

I can't. It just doesn't make good common sense.

If you believe the Steeler FO, then Marvel is great and his health couldn't be better. Hell, didn't Eddie write an article about this and how now it might be time to talk to Marvel about an extension?

The only thing I can see is if Colbert made that ridiculously stupid "best OT class in the past 24 years" comment to try and throw a smokescreen and make other teams value the OTs more.

The minute they tagged Starks, they knew that either:

1)Another team was going to do their negotiating for them
2)They'd be on the hook for 7 million
3)They'd work out their own long term deal with Max.

If you believe everyone involved, there was no effort given to #3. This means that it wasn't going to be addressed before Max signed the tender and took up the cap room. That also means that they knew that their cap was going to be tied up and they were ok with signing rookies late and not being able to make other free agent moves.

Though it is obvious that the FO values Starks as a player to some degree, I do not think they feel that he is worth 7mil based purely on his ability as a player. The 7mil in 2008 is more a reflection of his value to the team based on the situation they may be in, an expensive insurance policy if you will

It's obvious that Colbert does. It's not obvious that any of the coaches think he's worth a damn.

Imagine if Marvel either decides to retire prior to training camp or is hindered by his back all season combined with the Steelers being unable to land a solid OT prospect in the draft. Had they allowed Starks to move on, they would be stuck with Essex and Colon at tackle in 2008.

I'm not going to play the "imagine" game with Marvel just to try and salvage some shred of logic from this move. They were "stuck" with Colon at tackle last year with Starks still on the team at a really cheap rate. Now they're stuck with either Colon or Starks at tackle and have 7 million hitting this year's cap.

I, like many other people, knew that the prospect of Steelers paying Starks 7mil in 2008 was inevitable once tag was put on Starks. Even though he did not start most of the season, Starks does have some talent and he would have signed with someone had the Steelers not tagged him. The reason he was not pursued was because common sense told other teams that trying to sign Starks to a fair market value contract was a waste of time. There was no way in hell that Starks was going to sign a 2-3 year, 5-6mil dollar deal knowing that he had 7mil guaranteed waiting for him.

I'd say that they knew that the Steelers were going to match, not that it had much to do with Starks and his agent, unless there was a poison pill. Hell, would a poison pill even scare off the Steelers if they were ok with the 7 million number?

Either way, everyone seems to see what Stark's value is (well, almost everyone)

[LeXX75]

I'm not one to fly off the handle...but this move makes no sense to me....I am going to wait and see what happens before I start jumping up and down, and crying about this and that...but I'm pretty confused about 7 mill for an average at best OT....

[SteelerFan448]

Better $7 million for one season than a huge contract for the next 5-6 seasons.

[Blind Official]

Better $7 million for one season than a huge contract for the next 5-6 seasons.

???. I guess that makes sense on some level.

As a good friend pointed out to me, if they did this only to combat losing two OLmen in the same year (from a bad OL, but I digress), what are they going to do next year?

At this moment, I believe that Marvel, Essex, Max, and Kemo will now all be scheduled to be free agents.

To blatantly steal a simile, this is like paying McFadden the average of the top 10 CBs in the NFL.

[FlaStGrad]

The $7MM has no bearing on his contract other than he would want $7MM guaranteed as the transitional tag requires. So, would Starks prefer a 1 year deal at $7MM guaranteed or a 5 year $30MM contract with a signing bonus of $7MM (which is guaranteed)? With injury concerns and such, I think he would prefer the latter. His signing bonus would be prorated across the 5 years at $1.4MM. Then his avg salary would be $4.6MM per year for a total cap hit of $5MM per year. That would not be one of those contracts that would require him to be cut down the line if he was starting. $5MM per for a starting tackle is very reasonable. So in essence, $30MM > $7MM with a lot more stability.

[deljzc]

1. he wasn't outplayed at RT by Colon, how could he have been when he was playing LT 99% of pre-season
2. he did outplay Smith when he got the starts at LT
3. you can't trade a guy who isn't under contract, now he is
4. he's a much better player than some kids here make him out to be
5. he was a LT at UF, where he is now finally getting to play
6. he's only 25 or 26 years old and WILL get better at his profession
7. whatever sunshine they blow up your asses about Smith being all better and able to play, take it with a grain of salt.... he's over 30 and has had neck problems and back surgery, back surgery has a very low success rate....besides he's only signed for this year
8. it helps that he is actually under contract and on the team before discussing a long term deal
9. if he didn't re-sign and Smith can't play anymore after back surgery, we would have had exactly 2 OT's who have ever played a down in the NFL
10. by the time we pick there may not be any OT's worth it, a definitly not the kind of player to hitch all your horses to and go for broke, good or not
11. who else is actually available at OT, and if so there's probably a reason they're not signed

in conclusion, this is not the end all of this transaction....... and contrary to popular belief, the sky is not falling, and even with this signing the team still only has 4 somewhat expirienced profesional OT's....which is better than only having 3, with one just having major surgery, another coming off a crappy season, and the other having a total of 4 games played of NFL expirience.
its a move that had to be made, and is far from done........... relax

Whenever a front office positions themselves so poorly their only move is to overpay someone, that's bad GM work. Plain and simple.

If there were concerns about the tackle position, anyone in their right minds knew we had issues before the 2007 season, yet this franchise wasted numerous middle round picks on a punter, a third string quarterback, two failed DE's and two TE's.

To give this front office a free pass because the circumstances THEY CREATED due to their ineptness caused them to have to overpay a player that has decreased in performance each of his seasons here is bad. It's bad work and deserves to be criticized with the greatest voice we as fans can muster.

It's pathetic. It's shodder work. And Colbert is an idiot. I'm just glad the debate for those that haven't like Colbert for years keeps getting easier.

[deljzc]

Better $7 million for one season than a huge contract for the next 5-6 seasons.

If you don't think Cobert's next move is to sign Starks to a long term contract with $8-$9 million guaranteed you're in LALA land.

He's going to sign Starks to a long term contract because right now we don't even have enough salary cap space to sign the rookies class, go up to 53 players (we're only counting 51 players right now), have room for the practice squad and have an emergency fund for injury replacements.

He's also going to sign Starks to save face. To save face and say "this was our plan all-along". "We really want Starks as a Steeler". Blah.. Blah... Blah...

He's getting a long-term deal folks. No doubt about that now.

[Vader]

If you don't think Cobert's next move is to sign Starks to a long term contract with $8-$9 million guaranteed you're in LALA land.

He's going to sign Starks to a long term contract because right now we don't even have enough salary cap space to sign the rookies class, go up to 53 players (we're only counting 51 players right now), have room for the practice squad and have an emergency fund for injury replacements.

He's also going to sign Starks to save face. To save face and say "this was our plan all-along". "We really want Starks as a Steeler". Blah.. Blah... Blah...

He's getting a long-term deal folks. No doubt about that now.

Totally agree. He is holding all the cards. They must sign him long term because he gets 7M if he is cut or not. The FO has really turned this into a mess. Not only with this tag but with other draft decisions over the past few years.

[dobre shunka]

Can't be. Harris said Colbert has Starks right where he wants him, and that the Steelers hold all the cards.

Really the seeds for this mess were sown last year when they declined Denver's offer to trade back. They could have their OT, a real OLB, and tall WR instead of Timmons and Spaeth. And wouldn't be in the desperate state right now where Colbert is compelled to slap a $7m bandaid on their backup tackle and, in all likelihood, reaching for R2 OT talent in R1. While still needing an OLB and WR.

[jasen@cardiostack]

Can't be. Harris said Colbert has Starks right where he wants him, and that the Steelers hold all the cards.

Really the seeds for this mess were sown last year when they declined Denver's offer to trade back. They could have their OT, a real OLB, and tall WR instead of Timmons and Spaeth. And wouldn't be in the desperate state right now where Colbert is compelled to slap a $7m bandaid on their backup tackle and, in all likelihood, reaching for R2 OT talent in R1. While still needing an OLB and WR.

they were sown 2 years ago when we traded up for santurdio

[stevew]

We got debacled on this move.

Why would Starks' agent sign a long term deal for only 8-9m guaranteed when he already has 7m in guarantees? I don't see how that makes any kind of sense for Max. Do the one year make good, he's a free agent at 27 and still can get a great deal next year.

We will pay through the ass to make this situation work out, it's pretty horrible when you think about how Bengal-ish this maneuver was.

[stevew]

The seeds were for this were sown when we wasted a ton of 4th and 5th rounders the last 4 years. The 2004 and 2005 second days were awful. 2006 has been pretty bad as well.

It may be time for new leadership.

[BillvinCowbert]

The $7MM has no bearing on his contract other than he would want $7MM guaranteed as the transitional tag requires. So, would Starks prefer a 1 year deal at $7MM guaranteed or a 5 year $30MM contract with a signing bonus of $7MM (which is guaranteed)? With injury concerns and such, I think he would prefer the latter.
Starks is a pretty smart guy, so I'm sure he'd prefer the former. Because, NOTHING past the $7MM is guaranteed in either situation. So, he's better off taking the 7MM this year and then getting his big contract next year (with another 7MM signing bonus). If his career is ended by injury this year, he's never going to see the last 4 years of that 5/30 deal, so it's no "upside" to signing it.

In order to sign a long-term deal, HE needs upside. So, like 10MM in guarantees, maybe 9MM. But 7 or 8 million? Nah, better to take his chances in FA next year. If he sucks this year, he's f'd both ways (cut or not getting much in FA). If he has a good/great year, he misses out big time in FA.

His signing bonus would be prorated across the 5 years at $1.4MM. Then his avg salary would be $4.6MM per year for a total cap hit of $5MM per year. That would not be one of those contracts that would require him to be cut down the line if he was starting. $5MM per for a starting tackle is very reasonable. So in essence, $30MM > $7MM with a lot more stability.

30MM with 7MM guaranteed has same stability as 1 year with 7MM guaranteed and it has none of the upside. He'd be crazy to take a deal with less than 9MM in guarantees; in order to make it "worth the risk" the Steelers have to up the ante on guaranteed cash.

[dobre shunka]

The 7mil in 2008 is more a reflection of his value to the team based on the situation they may be in, an expensive insurance policy if you will.



Shoulda called Geico. Think of the new endorsement possibilities. "So simple, even a Colbert can do it!"

[FlaStGrad]

30MM with 7MM guaranteed has same stability as 1 year with 7MM guaranteed and it has none of the upside. He'd be crazy to take a deal with less than 9MM in guarantees; in order to make it "worth the risk" the Steelers have to up the ante on guaranteed cash.


And if he doesn't perform well this year and only receives deals in the 2-3 million range in the future when he could have been locked into the 5 million range... is that stability? It is the same deal with Mahan. He is signed and with the guarnatees, he is locked into a position on the team for at least another year. Those 2 years on the team with his salary plus the signig bonus is more than just a one year deal or inStarks' case, the guaranteed money. The Steelers wouldn't sign him to a five year deal and then cut him after a year so there is more stability.

[Far51]

dam We better hope Starks pans out, if he is extended 5 years between 25-30 mill with 6-8 mill guaranteed.

Hell we have bitched about Mahan's deal if Starks falters as Marvel's apperiant its gonna get real ugly, esp if Mahan is stinking it up at LG.

[DerbyCityBNGfan]

Starks is young, huge, and has upside...I have not backed down from my position that he is a much better run plower than Smith, and played well in limited action last year...get him at LT/RT with Smith on the other side and move Colon in to compete with Kemo, Simmons, and the centers. Or give the big guy a shot one slot inside. 3-4 yards all day behind that big dude if he were @ OG.

Our Best OL, Currently:

Smith LT
Colon LG
Hartwig C
Simmons RG
Starks RT

Kemo, Mahan, Stapleton...

better than a lot of teams as a group, just a lot of guys who play the same positions and the best of them are above average. We need young bodies, and Arians/Anderson/Zierlein need to get their heads together in getting the ball out Ben's hand much faster than it has in the past. A lot of that is up to Ben, but scheme and execution from his line and skill players is paramount.

All of you commiserating over how terrible this season is going to be need to relax and enjoy this week leading up to the draft.

[Blind Official]

Whenever a front office positions themselves so poorly their only move is to overpay someone, that's bad GM work. Plain and simple.

If there were concerns about the tackle position, anyone in their right minds knew we had issues before the 2007 season, yet this franchise wasted numerous middle round picks on a punter, a third string quarterback, two failed DE's and two TE's.

To give this front office a free pass because the circumstances THEY CREATED due to their ineptness caused them to have to overpay a player that has decreased in performance each of his seasons here is bad. It's bad work and deserves to be criticized with the greatest voice we as fans can muster.

It's pathetic. It's shodder work. And Colbert is an idiot. I'm just glad the debate for those that haven't like Colbert for years keeps getting easier.

I like this guy

[Blind Official]

The seeds were for this were sown when we wasted a ton of 4th and 5th rounders the last 4 years. The 2004 and 2005 second days were awful. 2006 has been pretty bad as well.

It may be time for new leadership.

No, no. Most everyone in here is FOR Colbert, because the draft is really a crap shoot and he's done well with most of his #1 and #2 picks.

None of this is his fault.

[DrunkinIrishman]

Boy, what a mess. As I have said Cowher was the power behind a lot of the moves before he left. Colbert was a compliment for him, someone who would not strive for power like Donahoe. Well Cowher is gone and we need to get a better GM. Colbert has done some good things but he is average at best. This team needs a strong GM with such an inexperienced and young coach. This team needs a GM such as a Donhoe type again. The lack of producing players from middle to late rounds has killed the depth. They have had some decent high picks, but their lower picks have been horrible. Thank goodness they have found a couple decent rookie FA or it could have been worse. I really hope they have something up their sleeve but I think that is probably not true. We really need to have a solid draft this year.

[Sluzilla]

1) It absolutely stopped teams from pursuing him. $7MM in one year was the BASELINE starting point for any negotiation. If someone thought he was worth $4MM per year (or thereabouts), it would have been pointless for them to pursue.

i don't agree with this at all...4M per year could easily have garnered 7M in guarantees...besides the point that a long term deal...say 4M per year over 6 years is much more preferable than a one year 7M guarantee...even if the up front guarantee was less than this supposed 7M barrier...

If there were teams that felt he was worth $6MM per year, then I agree, it wouldn't have stopped them. Given that NO ONE pursued him, I think it's obvious what the rest of the league thought of his value.

given that no one pursued him...it's obvious what the rest of the league thought of him...but the 7M trans tag had nothing to do with that...

2) Yes, they would. There's no fucking way Starks would sign a deal with less than $7MM upfront. He's GUARANTEED $7MM upfront AND staring down free agency AGAIN next year! You really think a team could reasonably offer him less than $7MM upfront and have ANY hope of signing him? Seriously? Or is your point that someone *could have* offered $3 million upfront, even though there would be zero chance of him signing. In that case, fine, but it would have been a waste of time (which is the point).

yes...i completely think a team could have offered him less than 7M up front and had a good chance of signing him long term...seriously...and i do think that even 5M up front with a long term contract would have been seriously considered...which is really not that big of a guarantee...hell...7M up front isn't that big on a 6 year contract...teams just weren't interested in him...

And hilariously, there are still people (not you) that think we could actually TRADE him! Seriously, this is how dumb some people are. But then again, these same people believed that we could "hide the pen" and believed that John Harris knows his ass from a hole in the ground.

never been on the trade deal...but i have questioned the exact details of how the trans tag works...have no problem admitting that...

And, above all else, this move sends a TERRIBLE message to the coaching staff. This say "eff you, we're making the decisions"... the staff made it clear what they thought of Starks and Colbert came in over the top and trumped them. This is Donahoe/Cowher type stuff all over again.

i also would like to know how the coaches feel...of course for all we know...the coaches watched him at LT at the end of the year and gave the FO the opinion to put the trans tag on him...

[Sluzilla]

Starks is a pretty smart guy, so I'm sure he'd prefer the former. Because, NOTHING past the $7MM is guaranteed in either situation. So, he's better off taking the 7MM this year and then getting his big contract next year (with another 7MM signing bonus). If his career is ended by injury this year, he's never going to see the last 4 years of that 5/30 deal, so it's no "upside" to signing it.

ahhh...but with no interest at all this year...why would he take the chance of passing up a long term deal right now?...to me...the smart move is to get the contract with all the bonus he can get asap...

[Bclower]

since starks is such a good player makes me feel cinfident that maybe one of us could go play for pitt since ive seen better tackles at the highschool level lol.

[esteban13]

Maybe the front office forgot to plug in the paper shredder. Think of the players that make 7m a year. Max Starks is not in that category, not even close. This entire situation makes the Steelers look idiotic and misinformed as to how to use these tags. If the FO thinks Starks is trade bait, what do they think they will get? A trade up in the third?

[Far51]

Starks is young, huge, and has upside...I have not backed down from my position that he is a much better run plower than Smith, and played well in limited action last year...get him at LT/RT with Smith on the other side and move Colon in to compete with Kemo, Simmons, and the centers. Or give the big guy a shot one slot inside. 3-4 yards all day behind that big dude if he were @ OG.

Our Best OL, Currently:

Smith LT
Colon LG
Hartwig C
Simmons RG
Starks RT

Kemo, Mahan, Stapleton...


counter, Simmons is just not strong enough to play effectively vs NT's as NT line over the RG & C, I think we need a heavier and stronger guy at RG a simple flip could help
as much as I would like to see mahan on the bench I think as a G he plays better and with this zone OL he has the agility b/c of his frame required to get to the outside on the counter runs

LT Starks
LG Mahan
C Hartwig
RG Kemoeato
RT Smith

[fedderone]

counter, Simmons is just not strong enough to play effectively vs NT's as NT line over the RG & C, I think we need a heavier and stronger guy at RG a simple flip could help
as much as I would like to see mahan on the bench I think as a G he plays better and with this zone OL he has the agility b/c of his frame required to get to the outside on the counter runs

LT Starks
LG Mahan
C Hartwig
RG Kemoeato
RT Smith

If Sean "Turnstile" Mahan is one of the five starters on our line when we open against Houston this year I will cry and then hang myself in my FN closet with my Terrible Towel ( RIP, M.C.)

The ONLY position Mahan should play next year is left out.

[BillvinCowbert]

ahhh...but with no interest at all this year...why would he take the chance of passing up a long term deal right now?...to me...the smart move is to get the contract with all the bonus he can get asap...

Well, we don't know what the interest was this year. The tag limited some teams from trying to go after him. Maybe YOUR team would have still gone after him, but mine wouldn't have.

To simplify, in our argument, Starks faces the following decision:

A) One year, 7MM guaranteed + unrestricted FA next year
B) Long-term deal with less than 7MM or less guaranteed (you stated even 5MM may be doable for him)

His career could go in one of four directions:

1) Career-ending injury
2) Very poor season
3) Mediocre season (say somewhere in range of where Mahan was when he signed here)
4) Good/great season

The question to answer is, under which scenarios does the long-term deal give him MORE SECURITY.

(1) He's done, he gets the year one money and that's it. Advantage TAG, maybe by around $1 million.
(2) He's probably stuck in a spot getting veteran minimum, or maybe $1MM per year in FA. In a LTD, he might get cut, but if the salary is low enough (2MM or less), he probably survives one more year, then gets cut. Advantage LTD, not by much, but he'd probably end up banking about 1MM more under that deal.
(3) This is really where he is now. He'd probably end up getting around 3.5-4.5MM per year in FA, depending on the desperation level. So instead of that 6yr/24 deal now, he signs a 5yr/20 deal next year, but he already banked 7MM, so now he's looking at 6yr/27MM. Advantage TAG - same deal a year later, but gets the addition 7MM this year.
(4) With a good/great year, especially if it's at LT, he is now looking at AT LEAST 5MM per year, maybe 6-7 million. Advantage TAG, in a HUGE way.

There's only one scenario that gives him more "security" and that's if he plays poorly. But the security is short-lived because he's still eventually cut. The absolute worst case and best case scenarios both favor the tag, and the middle of the road is a slight edge to the tag.

Again, if I'm a GM thinking he's worth 4MM per year, I'm not going to insult him with an offer this year because I realize he has no incentive if he plays well and all the downside if he doesn't.

If this was MLB or the NBA with guaranteed salaries, the LTD makes more sense. In the Not-For-Long, not so much.

[VaSteelerFan]

I can see it this way...

1. There are no other free agent OL out there to spend the 7 Million on RIGHT NOW.
2. The Steelers have the cap space
3. They need the OL

Why not keep him at this point? Its not 7 Million out of my pocket. You can make the argument that they could have used the 7 Million on someone else at the start of free agency, but right now, why not?


Faneca got a 4 yr 32 million dollar deal from the jets with 23 Million guaranteed. I'd rather pay Starks 7 Million for 1 year and re-evaluate in 2009, than pay an aging Faneca $23 Million guaranteed for the next 4 years. Faneca's ability is fading FAST.

[Blind Official]

You all aren't going to believe this, but:

Colbert was on the local radio shows here in the Burgh today defending the Starks move (as most of the locals are NOW all over it).

Colbert's sole defense? They knew that Faneca was gone and Max was their second best OLman last year, so they had to do what they could to keep him.

Wow.

[Super Dave]

you gotta be kidding me......

Mutiny on the Bounty!

[jasen@cardiostack]

You all aren't going to believe this, but:

Colbert was on the local radio shows here in the Burgh today defending the Starks move (as most of the locals are NOW all over it).

Colbert's sole defense? They knew that Faneca was gone and Max was their second best OLman last year, so they had to do what they could to keep him.

Wow.

if your second best ol cant start all the games then you have a horrific o-line. he's the second best but was sitting on the bench. is colbert fucking kidding. he needs to be fired today

[Super Dave]

Sounds like there is a serious rift between the FO and the coaches.