Bouchette takes Stewart at No. 23

[The Iron is Steel On!]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08114/876020-360.stm

Bouchette takes Stewart at No. 23
April 23, 2008
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
Ed Bouchette weighs in with his pick for the Steelers in some mock drafts that he participated in:


Two out of three mock drafts say the Steelers choice will be Oregon running back Jonathan Stewart. At least that was my choice in the three mock drafts I've participated in.

Now, I don't believe Stewart will fall to No. 23, but that wasn't the case in either mock draft for ESPN's First Take nor the one Wednesday for Sports Illustrated that will be posted online Thursday at noon.

Stewart fell and I grabbed him, and so would the Steelers if it happened to them. In the other mock draft, beat writers from each city got together by conference call. In that one, Stewart was taken, so I picked North Carolina defensive tackle Kentwan Balmer. At 6-4 ??, 308, he would play end in the Steelers 3-4 scheme, and the sure need the depth there, not to mention to get younger.

Everyone knows -- if you don't, read my story in Wednesday's PG -- that the Steelers have not drafted a back in the first or second round since 1989. Stewart, in my opinion, is the only one of the bunch who would tempt them in the first round on Saturday.

He's a banger, a thumper, an inside runner who would perfectly compliment Willie Parker. Suddenly, a so-so offensive line would improve with him in there. And maybe they could protect some fourth-quarter leads by having him grind inside.

Yes, there's a problem with his toe, but the Steelers have cleared that medically and believe that while he might be limited in training camp, he'd be ready to go by the start of the season.

Rookie running backs are also the easiest to assimilate into the offense, compared to other positions. He could provide immediate help.

Still, while two out of three mock drafts say it's Stewart, I still don't believe it. I think some team will snap him up long before the Steelers' turn arrives at No. 23.

It's going to be a great day if we end up with Stewart.

[Southern Steeler]

It's going to be a great day if we end up with Stewart.


I'm going to punch someone in the face if we take Stewart.

[kurtistb]

Hey TISO if we draft Stewart this year what the hell are you going to post about for the next year?

[The Iron is Steel On!]

Hey TISO if we draft Stewart this year what the hell are you going to post about for the next year?

I worry about that when it happens. I'm thinking maybe...play calling, our OC sucking, horrible challenge calls, going for 2 from the 22, why did we pay so much for Starks and Simmons, Anthony Smith being a knucklehead, Deshea is a pro bowl free safety, can we pick someone worth a damn from round 3 on, Browns suck, how come we don't throw to Miller more, who is Matt Spaeth, our punter can't kick over 40 yards now that he's off the juice, where is the full back, Colbert was nothing but Cowhers puppet, It's about time Timmons showed us something, Woodley should be in the pro bowl, and wait to step up in 2009 Troy...Oh yeah...Hines Ward is AWESOME!

[kurtistb]

I worry about that when it happens. I'm thinking maybe...play calling, our OC sucking, horrible challenge calls, going for 2 from the 22, why did we pay so much for Starks and Simmons, Anthony Smith being a knucklehead, Deshea is a pro bowl free safety, can we pick someone worth a damn from round 3 on, Browns suck, how come we don't throw to Miller more, who is Matt Spaeth, our punter can't kick over 40 yards now that he's off the juice, where is the full back, Colbert was nothing but Cowhers puppet, It's about time Timmons showed us something, Woodley should be in the pro bowl, and wait to step up in 2009 Troy...Oh yeah...Hines Ward is AWESOME!

I was hoping you'd work on running Carey Davis out of town and getting us a real fullback.

[Supersteeler]

I'm going to punch someone in the face if we take Stewart.

I would gladly join you to make it a one-two combination.

[Miller]

Yes it usually is a great day when you spend your first rounder on a backup running back for the top five back you already have. Oh wait, did I sat great? I meant immensely stupid. We might as well be scouting Henne, Flacco and Brohm there too. Equally as stupid.

Taking Balmer is bad as well. We should take him and cut him right then, just to save us the trouble of having to do it in 3 years. Praise Jeebus that Bouchette isn't making the picks.

[FAB802]

I resign myself to the fact that they aren't going to pick the players I like every year. It may not help, but it doesn't hurt.

[Chicoman]

If the kid is available with the 23rd overall pick in the NFL Draft I would take a chance on him and his star potential only because the draft is full on good linemen. A kid like Stewart doesn't come along very often and combine him with Parker and Oh Boy I smellelelelelelelelel a Super Bowl-Esque season for the Black n Gold!:)

[TheStoneMan]

would it be possibe for stewart to play an alstott esq type of role for us

[Secret Santa]

I'm going to sit on the other side of Supe.

[Tres Rios]

If we draft anything other than an OL or tall WR with our 1st Rounder, I'm going to fly to Florida just to punch Supe.

[FAB802]

A kid like Stewart doesn't come along often, yet he may be available at 23? If they pick him I may fly down to Florida to ensure Tres does enough damage to Supe.

[Super Dave]

Quentin Groves = Shawn Merriman...yet he will be available at 23, and he will sit longer than Stewart.

[markymarc]

To me that would be a bad pick just like taking Balmer at 1.23.

[Southern Steeler]

I'm going to sit on the other side of Supe.


good call.

[FistfullofRings]

I just saw some more highlights of Stewart and I don't really care for what I see. He's not a punishing runner. He might as well be 200lbs, and if he were, he wouldn't be rated nearly as high. I think he's another Najeh Davenport.

I'll pass on Balmer too.

Saw another mock with Justin King - pass. He was somewhat of a disspointment at the college level and should have stayed in school. A project like Lawrence Timmons.

[BuckeyeSteel]

would it be possibe for stewart to play an alstott esq type of role for us

I only want Stewart at 1.23 if he can play OL or DL.

[K from Cal]

This is all jibber jabber because we're going to trade down and take a lineman.

[Spike]

Jibber jabber

The only thing going for Ed in my book is he always answers my e-mails.

[CLUTCH]

If you look at where the steelers draft position is in this years draft there is no way an o-line draft pick comes in and starts this year for the steelers barring injury.......something to think about

[Blind Official]

Yes it usually is a great day when you spend your first rounder on a backup running back for the top five back you already have. Oh wait, did I sat great? I meant immensely stupid. We might as well be scouting Henne, Flacco and Brohm there too. Equally as stupid.

Taking Balmer is bad as well. We should take him and cut him right then, just to save us the trouble of having to do it in 3 years. Praise Jeebus that Bouchette isn't making the picks.

I don't understand the "Oh no, if they take a RB that guy won't be starting!" crowd.

Santonio didn't start his rookie year. Neither did any of the picks from last year that weren't punters (unless you count Woodley at the end). Most picks at most positions aren't going to start.

...but, a true #2 or platoon RB can have a HUGE impact. It can keep Willie fresher and make him more dangerous. It can even help the play of the OL (being that they'd all prefer to run the ball more often and more effectively)

It's not the same as taking a QB.

[The Iron is Steel On!]

I was hoping you'd work on running Carey Davis out of town and getting us a real fullback.

I'll be first in line for the Owen Shmitt jersey (did I spell that right) maybe Hester.

or tall WR with our 1st Rounder

Miller is our tall wide receiver. We don't throw the ball near enough anyway.

[Jer]

Bouchette is a fucking tool. I'll bet he shakes his magic 8 ball often. It's the only way I can see him coming up with this shit.

[kurtistb]

I don't understand the "Oh no, if they take a RB that guy won't be starting!" crowd.

Santonio didn't start his rookie year. Neither did any of the picks from last year that weren't punters (unless you count Woodley at the end). Most picks at most positions aren't going to start.

...but, a true #2 or platoon RB can have a HUGE impact. It can keep Willie fresher and make him more dangerous. It can even help the play of the OL (being that they'd all prefer to run the ball more often and more effectively)

It's not the same as taking a QB.

My guess is that most people don't understand that if we limit Willies carries to 20 there will still be plenty of carries for a number 2. I could understand if people said we didn't need a back because they felt Russell or Moore could be the guy but I have yet to see anyone cite that as a reason against drafting Stewart. The truth is the only position where we could conceivably get a starter is on the Oline and even that isn't a lock. Obviously a stud offensive lineman would be a huge boost but realistically if that isn't available a stud RB (or DE) helps us more than almost any other position.

[Vader]

My guess is that most people don't understand that if we limit Willies carries to 20 there will still be plenty of carries for a number 2. I could understand if people said we didn't need a back because they felt Russell or Moore could be the guy but I have yet to see anyone cite that as a reason against drafting Stewart. The truth is the only position where we could conceivably get a starter is on the Oline and even that isn't a lock. Obviously a stud offensive lineman would be a huge boost but realistically if that isn't available a stud RB (or DE) helps us more than almost any other position.

To me it is about evaluating the talent available and looking at what we need as a team. Our lines are a mess and we have no depth anywhere EXCEPT RB. Why draft strickly for depth at the only position where we have anybody worth a crap? Add that to the fact that RB is a position that is known for late round success. I think it is insane to draft a RB in the first round when OL, DL, DB, and WR are the areas that are so weak on this team.

[fedderone]

If you look at where the steelers draft position is in this years draft there is no way an o-line draft pick comes in and starts this year for the steelers barring injury.......something to think about

I'm pretty sure I could go start for the Stillas as an undrafted O-lineman next year.
Did you watch our O-Line's performance last year??!!
It was FN brutal beyond comprehension.

If we take Gosder Cherilus at #23, provided he's there, he starts at RT next year.
GUARAN-DAMN-TEED.

I'm not saying reach for a player, and if the top six O-Lineman are gone by the time we pick at 23, then by all means, draft a D-Lineman, secondary ( safety or corner ), or WR.
Surely we'll find value at ONE of all those positions if we can't find a trade partner.

But we can't ignore the O-Line this draft and MUST address it EARLY and OFTEN if we want to get productive careers out of Ben and Willie.

If we draft Stewart, then it'll be ANOTHER back of ours on his arse behind the line of scrimmage with Ben and Willie.
Three shortened careers instead of two.

[TazmanianDevil43]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h2yKRVAHItU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h2yKRVAHItU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Blind Official]

To me it is about evaluating the talent available and looking at what we need as a team. Our lines are a mess and we have no depth anywhere EXCEPT RB. Why draft strickly for depth at the only position where we have anybody worth a crap? Add that to the fact that RB is a position that is known for late round success. I think it is insane to draft a RB in the first round when OL, DL, DB, and WR are the areas that are so weak on this team.

Obviously, I'm not saying that Stewart is AP, but the Vikings didn't "need" a RB either. They had Chester Taylor who just came off a great year (with some injuries) and they also had Mewelde Moore. Obviously, Peterson worked out for them, despite their other needs for QB, etc.

To me, you're absolutely right that RBs can be found later in the draft (typically and in this draft also). Also, IMO, you'd have to get Stewart or Medenhall or Ray Rice or Forte (so it would have to be in the first 3 rounds). Then the question becomes, are you better off with Stewart/second tier OL or Cherilus/Rice or Cherilus/Forte? Of course, that's ignoring the big need on the DL.

People were using the "need" argument last year to point out that the Steelers didn't need a RB and that our depth was fine. IMO, that wasn't true last year (when Tony Hunt was available) and it's not true now. I like Moore, Russell, Davis, but they aren't going to make me jump up and down and ignore a good player that might fall to us in the draft. None of them have shown enough in the NFL for that.

[Vader]

Obviously, I'm not saying that Stewart is AP, but the Vikings didn't "need" a RB either. They had Chester Taylor who just came off a great year (with some injuries) and they also had Mewelde Moore. Obviously, Peterson worked out for them, despite their other needs for QB, etc.

To me, you're absolutely right that RBs can be found later in the draft (typically and in this draft also). Also, IMO, you'd have to get Stewart or Medenhall or Ray Rice or Forte (so it would have to be in the first 3 rounds). Then the question becomes, are you better off with Stewart/second tier OL or Cherilus/Rice or Cherilus/Forte? Of course, that's ignoring the big need on the DL.

People were using the "need" argument last year to point out that the Steelers didn't need a RB and that our depth was fine. IMO, that wasn't true last year (when Tony Hunt was available) and it's not true now. I like Moore, Russell, Davis, but they aren't going to make me jump up and down and ignore a good player that might fall to us in the draft. None of them have shown enough in the NFL for that.

It depends on who "people" are and what they consider a need. All teams "need" great players at any position. But drafting is a toss up so you are looking to draft the best players available at the positions you need. Colbert already stated that we wouldn't draft a QB or a TE this year high... wonder why? And don't tell me we are deep at TE.

Again this year we have massive holes to fill along the lines, WRs, and DBs. Taking a luxary pick at 23 will hurt this team for years IMHO.

[USM]

If you look at where the steelers draft position is in this years draft there is no way an o-line draft pick comes in and starts this year for the steelers barring injury.......something to think about

Two personal fouls on this play.

Here ya go...S...S.

[Drac 58]

I've come to think that Stewart is a monster that flat out would instantly help this offense more than the O-Linemen who will be available at 23.

He really is what Lendale White was supposed to be when a lot of folks wanted to draft him.

In fact, I'm frightened that I'm slowly becoming his SG and will be lobbing for him 3 years from now while he's playing for another team.

[leftcoaststeelerfan]

I've come to think that Stewart is a monster that flat out would instantly help this offense more than the O-Linemen who will be available at 23.

He really is what Lendale White was supposed to be when a lot of folks wanted to draft him.

In fact, I'm frightened that I'm slowly becoming his SG and will be lobbing for him 3 years from now while he's playing for another team.

I've changed my mind on Stewart as well. I wouldn't mind at all if the Steelers took him at 1.23. In fact I may even pull for them to do so.

[Spike]

History says we're over due for a RB:

Steelers FIRST-ROUND DRAFT CHOICES BY POSITION: (since 1970)<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>
· 7 Defensive Backs (1973, 75, 78, 87, 93, 97, 03)<O:P></O:P>
· 7 Wide Receivers (1971, 74, 84, 94, 99, 00, 06)<O:P></O:P>
· 6 Offensive Linemen (1986, 89, 92, 96, 98, 02)<O:P></O:P>
· 5 Defensive Linemen (1981, 83, 85, 88, 01)<O:P></O:P>
· 4 Running Backs (1972, 79, 82, 89)<O:P></O:P>
· 4 Tight Ends (1976, 90, 95, 05)<O:P></O:P>
· 3 Quarterbacks (1970, 80, 04)<O:P></O:P>
· 3 Linebackers (1977, 91, 07)

[USM]

History says we're over due for a RB:



A big bruisin back behind Parker served us well in 05

[Blind Official]

It depends on who "people" are and what they consider a need. All teams "need" great players at any position. But drafting is a toss up so you are looking to draft the best players available at the positions you need.

Drafting being a toss up somehow means that it's more worthwhile to go for "need" over value?

How does that make logical sense? The draft being uncertain doesn't favor one factor either way.

Colbert already stated that we wouldn't draft a QB or a TE this year high... wonder why? And don't tell me we are deep at TE.

Because:

1)QB is a different animal in today's NFL and always will be
2)They've invested a #1 and a #3 in the TE position over the recent past few years. That's more than I can think about the other areas that we all agree on need talent enfused (except for LB). They are going to sink or swim based on that (and again, this isn't the same as a RB tandem)

Again this year we have massive holes to fill along the lines, WRs, and DBs. Taking a luxary pick at 23 will hurt this team for years IMHO.

I think that's ridiculous and completely untrue. What is hurting the team now is the fact that they passed on value in the past in the name of "need". Simply continuing that process will not fix the problem, it will simply compound it.

If they had Cris Canty and Marion Barber/Brandon Jacobs now, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We don't have those players because they decided that Fred Gibson and Essex were greater "needs"

[Crime Fighter]

I've changed my mind on Stewart as well. I wouldn't mind at all if the Steelers took him at 1.23. In fact I may even pull for them to do so.

Yeah, his value is just way to high to pass on him. We can afford to sit him for a bit until his toe heals and then use both him and Fast Willie to protect Ben in terms of griding out the yardage. I've heard so much about how we need to get back to running the football and this is the guy that will help us get there.

Yes, are OL and DL big needs? Sure, but a team doesn't get to draft a quality player like Stewart this late in RD 1. To me, if he's there, it is a no brainer.

[Blind Official]

Yeah, his value is just way to high to pass on him. We can afford to sit him for a bit until his toe heals and then use both him and Fast Willie to protect Ben in terms of griding out the yardage. I've heard so much about how we need to get back to running the football and this is the guy that will help us get there.

Yes, are OL and DL big needs? Sure, but a team doesn't get to draft a quality player like Stewart this late in RD 1. To me, if he's there, it is a no brainer.

The Steeler radio show on ESPN this afternoon did a bunch of time on this topic. The one radio guy ( I think Wexell) mentioned that he took Stewart in a mock draft for the Steelers and then was hoping to get someone like Duane Brown in R2. He just never got the chance to go OT with what was left.

IMO, I don't care. Everyone agreed that OL was a big need, but that most OLmen weren't going to start this year. Then they talked about guards more than anything because "it would be tough for a guy who only plays OC to make this roster"

Also, they all agreed that, in the long run, a player like Stewart being added to the mix would help the overall OL more than any other player...even Cherilus

[Blind Official]

Also, similar to what TMC said recently ( I think) they all talked about the Starks situation and the fact that this is an OL you can win with. It's not dominating, but they do have some choices for next season.

They discussed the fact that the Steelers have need at virtually every position (even TE and QB when you consider the backup QB and 3rd TEs) and that they all would hope that Colbert would just try to go BPA to fill the roster with as much talent as possible

[Vader]

Because:

1)QB is a different animal in today's NFL and always will be
2)They've invested a #1 and a #3 in the TE position over the recent past few years. That's more than I can think about the other areas that we all agree on need talent enfused (except for LB). They are going to sink or swim based on that (and again, this isn't the same as a RB tandem)



So then they aren't taking the BAP. They are taking the BAP at a position they feel is a need. Either you take the BAP or you don't. When you start the "we drafted high there before" line then it really isn't the BAP.

I think that's ridiculous and completely untrue. What is hurting the team now is the fact that they passed on value in the past in the name of "need". Simply continuing that process will not fix the problem, it will simply compound it.

If they had Cris Canty and Marion Barber/Brandon Jacobs now, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We don't have those players because they decided that Fred Gibson and Essex were greater "needs"

What is untrue is you believing they didn't think Gibson and Essex were the BAP. You don't know what they were thinking. Many people thought Gibson was an absolutly steal in the 4th. He was considered the BAP by many people.

Again looking back is easy to do. If you don't like the pick you call him a reach and say we should have drafted player X because he would have been better. But that isn't drafting the BAP, that is hindsight. I doubt few people knew Jacobs when he was drafted by NY.

I'll tell you what we can do. AFter the draft you tell me who the BAP were that we drafted and we can see how they do.

[jacklambert5858]

We do need a big back, and Stewart is the real deal. It wouldn't hurt my feeling if we took him. I just want us to trade out and grab more picks where we could two or three player who could step in and make an impact on the team.

[Blind Official]

So then they aren't taking the BAP. They are taking the BAP at a position they feel is a need. Either you take the BAP or you don't. When you start the "we drafted high there before" line then it really isn't the BAP.

Correct, and just like on the radio show, they talked about exceptions to the rule and when they made sense. Here's the thing for the current Steelers (and the point that everyone is usually making), this current Steeler team isn't talented enough at the following positions to ignore and move away from the BPA high in the draft:

RB
FB
OT
OG
OC
WR
DL
OLB
ILB
S
CB

What is untrue is you believing they didn't think Gibson and Essex were the BAP. You don't know what they were thinking. Many people thought Gibson was an absolutly steal in the 4th. He was considered the BAP by many people.

Well, now we're in fantasy land and can play the if game any way that we want.

Canty was generally ranked way higher than Fred Gibson by the experts, the mocks, etc. The difference was that the Steelers perceived more of a need at WR because Plex was recently out of town.

Again looking back is easy to do. If you don't like the pick you call him a reach and say we should have drafted player X because he would have been better. But that isn't drafting the BAP, that is hindsight.

Well, I'm going to say what I always say in this situation. IT'S NOT HINDSIGHT IF YOU SAY THIS AS IT IS HAPPENING!

I doubt few people knew Jacobs when he was drafted by NY.

You'd probably be wrong. I don't know how long you've been around here, but IIRC, Jacobs was talked about alot on these boards to be drafted as a sort of heir apparent to Jerome. The locals even talked about the Steelers liking him. Then he fell in the draft, but they weren't able to capitalize.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not going back over old draft lists/histories and saying "Man, we could have had Player X". These are all things that were talked about as those drafts were going on (just as you propose below). The Santonio draft being a big example

I'll tell you what we can do. AFter the draft you tell me who the BAP were that we drafted and we can see how they do.

Deal, if the situation presents itself. Hopefully they can harvest the fall. There could be situations where there isn't much difference between talent (which I expect for most of this draft). I just hope that they aren't reaching and ignoring better talent (and IMO, Stewart over a guy like Cherilus is a talent differential)

...but if Stewart was on the board and they had an opportunity to trade down and grab a few more early picks, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat

[Blind Official]

Also, the draft "expert" on the radio from Scout's INC went over the RBs in the recent drafts that fell and were available to be taken at #23 or lower. He was making the point because a ton turned into homerun picks.

They also discussed that the Steelers would find it hard to pass on Hardy

[Blind Official]

A lot of people from this thread must be pissed that the Steelers ended up drafting RM, right?

[SteelerAl]

Canty was generally ranked way higher than Fred Gibson by the experts, the mocks, etc. The difference was that the Steelers perceived more of a need at WR because Plex was recently out of town.

Goodness, are you ever going to let the Canty thing go? Canty was a solid first-round prospect before he tore his ACL and then further injured himself in a bar fight --- at the time there were questions about whether his vision would ever be the same. There was no consensus about where Canty would be drafted --- how could any of the "experts" making mock drafts know where to slot Canty without taking medical advice? The FO deserves a pass on that one because Canty was a medical question mark.

[Blind Official]

Goodness, are you ever going to let the Canty thing go? Canty was a solid first-round prospect before he tore his ACL and then further injured himself in a bar fight --- at the time there were questions about whether his vision would ever be the same. There was no consensus about where Canty would be drafted --- how could any of the "experts" making mock drafts know where to slot Canty without taking medical advice? The FO deserves a pass on that one because Canty was a medical question mark.

No.

Even with the questions, Canty was still ranked highly (especially based on talent, like you mentioned).

These coaches ALWAYS have to take medical advice on players and then figure out where the risk is appropriate in the draft. It happened with Heath. It just happened with Sweed.

In the 4th round, that's a no brainer.