Arians to blame for Bengals loss - Oficially!

[Acereros]

I've just read this. I'm not sure if it hasn't been discussed before, but just wanted to share it:

From a transcript of Roethlisberger's weekly chat with reporters:

Q: You didn’t call the plays on the last drive against the Bengals. Don’t you usually call them in that situation?
A: “Yeah, B.A. (Bruce Arians) was and I’ll never second-guess Bruce and he doesn’t ever second-guess me so it’s not something where we said ‘Why didn’t we do this, why didn’t we do that?’ He wanted to call them and I believed in him. I just have to execute them.”

http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2009/11/19/big-ben-shoulders-the-blame/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29

[Blitz]

Did B.A. throw the passes?

[Hines57]

So when the play calling works he's a genius and when it doesn't he's got to be fired. Gotta take the bad with the good. BA while never going to be popular here has transformed our offense. We struggled against a stout defensive line that pressured our QB and took away our game.

[FAB802]

Yeah, it's not like it ever works out when Ben calls the plays in the hurry up.

[Acereros]

So when the play calling works he's a genius and when it doesn't he's got to be fired. Gotta take the bad with the good. BA while never going to be popular here has transformed our offense. We struggled against a stout defensive line that pressured our QB and took away our game.


Did B.A. throw the passes?

You're right. Great call at 2nd and 10 in the last drive, going for the deep ball that had been working so well all game long. Poor execution by Ben, Arians should be excused. :mad::mad:

[jmat]

I'm blaming my man Mike for the Bengals loss. He didn't have the team prepared.
Now it's over and we move on.

[WoodyHarrison]

40 passes, two scrambles and four sacks equates to 46 pass play attempts as compared to 18 running plays of which 2 were scrambles or 16 running plays run.
This equates to 74.2 pass plays attempted verses 25.8 running plays. That is totally unacceptable in a low scoring game in which we never trailed by more than 6 points. Now, add to it, the Steelers averaged 3.7 ypp verses 4.4 ypc... I can never recall a game where we had less yards per attempt passing verses running. Our opponents ran 30 pass plays and 29 run plays averaging 5.2 ypp and 2.1 ypc... need I say more!

[Sluzilla]

So when the play calling works he's a genius and when it doesn't he's got to be fired. Gotta take the bad with the good. BA while never going to be popular here has transformed our offense. We struggled against a stout defensive line that pressured our QB and took away our game.

i don't think anyone denies arians transformed our offense...the problem has always been his playcalling...not his play design...ben seems to be much more in tune to when and what to call than arians has ever been...arians does well on occasion...but for the most part...he pretty much sucks...in his case...it's taking the good with the bad...not the other way around...

[Acereros]

I'm blaming my man Mike for the Bengals loss. He didn't have the team prepared.
Now it's over and we move on.

I agree, at the end of the day, he's responsible for the continued shortcomings from his assistants/personnel.

[Bigben2holmes]

santonio could learn a thing or two from big Ben, u c big Ben never puts someone else under the bus..he always says its his fault

[Dracula]

As long as there is only a token effort to run the ball and teams can recognize that the Steelers aren't truly commited to it, it is going to become increasingly difficult to air it out the way BA seems so intent on doing it. Not saying we can't be a pass first team, but it seems like there should be a little more balance than there was last week so the opposition is willing to commit more men to the box on a more consistent basis. Just my opinion as a layman.

[Booted]

Steelers' last drive was awful. I'm talking about play selections not the execution, which was pitiful also. Thanks, Bruise Arians.

[USM]

He wanted to call them and I believed in him. I just have to execute them.”


Sounds like Roethlisberger is calling for the heat to me.

[MISteeler]

40 passes, two scrambles and four sacks equates to 46 pass play attempts as compared to 18 running plays of which 2 were scrambles or 16 running plays run.
This equates to 74.2 pass plays attempted verses 25.8 running plays. That is totally unacceptable in a low scoring game in which we never trailed by more than 6 points. Now, add to it, the Steelers averaged 3.7 ypp verses 4.4 ypc... I can never recall a game where we had less yards per attempt passing verses running. Our opponents ran 30 pass plays and 29 run plays averaging 5.2 ypp and 2.1 ypc... need I say more!

you could add "and our opponent won."

[stlrbum]

24 hour rule....It's over....time to focus on KC.

[Madinsomniac]

My opinions are well documneted about Bruce Arians. While I respect him as a QB Coach and WR Coach, the fundamentals of his play calling are very very bad. Im not speaking of hindsight bitching about plays that did not work, I mean the repeated failures to adequately deal with heavy pressure teams because he refuses to do any of the traditional counters including three step drop quick passes, keeping another fullback/te in the backfield to block, using screens and draws, rolling his qb out, or simply running more against pass blitzing teams.... I also do not like how in certain situations he is very predictable. He also doesnt use motion enough to expose coverage and certainly abandons the run too early every game. He has a horrid "End game" plan when he is ahead, including passing the ball in very questionable situations.

I can live with running a Colt-style offense, however in Indy the QB calls most of the plays out of that O. Since Our QB has a pretty high success rate of calling his own plays, I see little reason not to expand that.

[markymarc]

So when the play calling works he's a genius and when it doesn't he's got to be fired. Gotta take the bad with the good. BA while never going to be popular here has transformed our offense. We struggled against a stout defensive line that pressured our QB and took away our game.

Very well stated!

[elfiero]

So when the play calling works he's a genius and when it doesn't he's got to be fired. Gotta take the bad with the good. BA while never going to be popular here has transformed our offense. We struggled against a stout defensive line that pressured our QB and took away our game.

The words genius and Bruce Arians should not be within 200 miles of each other, and if they took away "our game" which is long developing routes in which Ben has to scramble until a DB gets shaken off then why not run the ball more?

[dasimp01]

I want to know if ANY of our offensive coaches actually do any coaching?? Ben has the accuracy, anticipation, and pocket awareness of a college freshman, our WR's couldn't catch the swine flu, we all know how bad our OL is. Does MT ever hold Arians, Anderson, LZ and the WR coach accountable for the atrocious product on the field???

[Drink IRON City]

fuck bruce arians



Not litterally, but I'm with yaz.



Salute the nation

[Steelermania]

I want to know if ANY of our offensive coaches actually do any coaching?? Ben has the accuracy, anticipation, and pocket awareness of a college freshman, our WR's couldn't catch the swine flu, we all know how bad our OL is. Does MT ever hold Arians, Anderson, LZ and the WR coach accountable for the atrocious product on the field???

You're so right.


Ben is a bum
Hines and Santonio are horrible.

No wonder we didn't make the playoffs last year.

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Bruce Albatross

He's not a good playcaller. It seems like he loses track of what's happening in the game. I bet he had no idea he called 70% passes until later.

[Teal 37]

Bruce Albatross... I like it and it is so very appropriate. The Steelers win (most of the time) in spite of him, not because of him.

Thanx Tape!!

[Spike]

wah wah wah

What a whining bunch of fucking pussies.

Ban all these cocksucking bitches from my pristine board, I'm sick of this same old shit.

[markymarc]

Just wait Spike. Give it a couple weeks and this new site look will be back to the good old days :-)

[Spike]

Just wait Spike. Give it a couple weeks and this new site look will be back to the good old days :-)

I was hoping we left the retard bus behind this time.

[markymarc]

You just can't escape the short bus Spike!

[Eastshoresteelerfan]

It's going to be the same old shyte as long as arians is calling plays. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that when Ben calls the plays, they are more often successful. Why? Because when Ben calls the plays they are not predictable.
Arians always want to go up the gut,pump fake hand off,pump fake hand off, pass.
And yes, this is SO old.

[BLKnGLDnLA]

Sounds like Roethlisberger is calling for the heat to me.

I agree... also, Ben never seems to miss an opportunity to give credit to the no-huddle (when he calls the plays)...

Don't get me wrong, and this is purely my own speculation, Ben doesn't necessarily talk crap about BA, but he also doesn't hesitate to say what the deal was when things work out nicely... which is usually "no-huddle". Now I'm not ragging on Ben, just curious as to WTF is really going on between these two??

[moetec]

B.A. still sucks to me.

[Acereros]

B.A. still sucks to me.

To you, to me, to the media and to most people with common sense. There are just a couple of idiots who are happy with BA and the fact that the Steelers O are moving the ball from end to end, despite not being able to score.


Balance is key: The Steelers' offense will try to get back on track after one of the worst performances of the season against Cincinnati. Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians received a lot of heat in the media this week for his unbalanced play calling last weekend (40 pass plays/18 run plays). It was a surprising stat considering the game against the Bengals was extremely close throughout and tailback Rashard Mendenhall (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11257) entered the game with the hot hand. Look for the Steelers to get back to being balanced against the struggling Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan) (2-7). Kansas City has the No. 27-ranked defense in the NFL. So Pittsburgh should have an easier time executing.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/5837/final-word-afc-north

[StillerinNY]

I agree with elf and SG. Arians is no genius. He's arrogant and too hard headed to be effective.


StillerinNY

[Steelers Rule!]

I want to know if ANY of our offensive coaches actually do any coaching?? Ben has the accuracy, anticipation, and pocket awareness of a college freshman, our WR's couldn't catch the swine flu, we all know how bad our OL is. Does MT ever hold Arians, Anderson, LZ and the WR coach accountable for the atrocious product on the field???

Shit, you would make the move..........


To you, to me, to the media and to most people with common sense. There are just a couple of idiots who are happy with BA and the fact that the Steelers O are moving the ball from end to end, despite not being able to score.


Among those idiots are BB and Tomlin. You know more than them?

[SteelerScott]

BA blows.
How we can have multiple great drives last season, and then witness that crap series last week... just.... fn'... baffles me.

[Spike]

I think Arian sucks too, that's why I want Ben to run the 5 WIDE!!!. How many times do I have to say it?

I've hated Arians before most of you dipshits have been around here mostly because he's an ex-Brown, but Tomlin isn't firing him mid-season so it all ends up just being a bunch of whining and sniveling and it's pissing me off.

Besies, I don't know if a fanbase has ever liked an offensive coordinator, when they lose.

Fans always think they can call a better game.

[jpbucco]

This topic begs some obvious questions...

1. Has Arians ever called the plays in the two minute offense before?
2. If not, why now?
3. If so, has Ben ever given him credit when it worked?
4. Why would Ben volunteer that info regardless?
5. Is anyone else glad that we don't have to see the same fucking avatars over and over?

[Toranaga]

I think there is a little oversimplification in here sometimes about what he is calling. The fact that BB throws a ball deep down the field doesn't mean that there wasn't a receiver underneath running a route to get the first or a TE or RB releasing or something. If BB goes to Heath Miller for the first down then BA called a great play but if he chucks it downfield then BA is an idiot for calling for a deep pass. In reality, it may have been the same play. Sometimes, the offense just needs to execute it and make the right decision.

-T

[Madinsomniac]

I think there is a little oversimplification in here sometimes about what he is calling. The fact that BB throws a ball deep down the field doesn't mean that there wasn't a receiver underneath running a route to get the first or a TE or RB releasing or something. If BB goes to Heath Miller for the first down then BA called a great play but if he chucks it downfield then BA is an idiot for calling for a deep pass. In reality, it may have been the same play. Sometimes, the offense just needs to execute it and make the right decision.

-T

Yes, but if you compile all the statements BA himself makes and the comments of the Olinemen, RB's, WR's, and even to some extent Ben himself, you clearly get the picture that he mostly calls for pass plays and the first read is almost always the deep one. several Players have noted that many of our run plays are audibles out of a pass play at the line and BA himself said that he feels the best way to beat pressure is to throw deep....

I dont know how one can look at our successful plays that are not audibles at the line or busted plays and get any sort of image that BA can playcall worth a damn. If it were simple execution then the busted plays and audibles would fail at the same rate....

[Blitz]

gotta take the good with the bad, 5 game winning streak and no mention of B.A. 1 loss and he is vilified.....

[schillah]

should of ran more....13 carries for Mendenhall??

[Steelersrule]

Not me. I bitch every day I awake because that douche bag still has a job.

I wish I could find the article from last year where his arrogant ass acted like he had something to do with the success of the team. It was half way through the season. All I was thinking is that him and the offense can give their game checks to Dick and the defense.

Bruce Albatross is damned straight. Cleveland piece of shit. Die in a fire Bruce, die in a fire.

tell us how you really feel :)

[Madinsomniac]

gotta take the good with the bad, 5 game winning streak and no mention of B.A. 1 loss and he is vilified.....

Many of us pointed out the potential problems that still existed even after the good games. As I said on the old board, we had to wait to see how the O handled a team that blitzed them and didnt just sit back in coverage... and the answer was they couldnt.

[markymarc]

While I am no fan of Bruce Arians, he is our current OC. The 2 biggest issues I have with Arians is that he is not very good at calling a good flowing offensive game plan and is not good at making in game adjustments. Until Mike Tomlin gets rid of him I guess we are stuck with Bruce Arians.

[Dracula]

I know similarities between this most recent Bengals game and last years Eagles game must have already been discussed somewhere. The Steelers inability to handle the blitz was exposed but hopefully they have learned something from it and they'll be able to make the appropriate adjustments. They did it last year and hopefully can pull it off again.

[elfiero]

Not me. I bitch every day I awake because that douche bag still has a job.

I wish I could find the article from last year where his arrogant ass acted like he had something to do with the success of the team. It was half way through the season. All I was thinking is that him and the offense can give their game checks to Dick and the defense.

Bruce Albatross is damned straight. Cleveland piece of shit. Die in a fire Bruce, die in a fire.

Exactly, there is an interview from earlier this year where he was taking credit for getting to and winning SB 43. I just think he influenced Ben("You can throw the ball all over") so he could become O.C. when Tomlin came in, and he is trying to prove he can run an NFL offense with the best of them when we all know he can't.

[Teal 37]

We "know" that he (Bruce Albatross) can't run an NFL offense because he has DEMONSTRATED & PROVEN that he can't!!

[Scott T]

Please O please Al Davis can you take this Offensive genius off our hands in the Offseason. he'd make a great head coach and turn the Radiers around.

[Madinsomniac]

Please O please Al Davis can you take this Offensive genius off our hands in the Offseason. he'd make a great head coach and turn the Radiers around.

I almost want to go to all the messageboards of the crappy teams and try to get a rumor started that he is so good he would make a great HC... maybe some F/O would be stupid enough to hire him away. Our best hope is that we manange to win another SB and someone hires him off our staff for just such a reason....

[Scott T]

maybe the browns can take him back fin a trade for Cribbs.

[scstillerfan]

I'm not a Bruce Arians fan by any means. IMO Ben made bad decisions, could not throw timing routes, and just had a crappy game. All QBs will do it on occasion, even the best. He will play better as the season progresses, the line continues to gel, and the running game actually shows up.

[Scott T]

you mean if the run game actually gets used don't ya.

[scstillerfan]

you mean if the run game actually gets used don't ya.

Yeah, something like that LOL.

[Punxsutawney]

I know similarities between this most recent Bengals game and last years Eagles game must have already been discussed somewhere. The Steelers inability to handle the blitz was exposed but hopefully they have learned something from it and they'll be able to make the appropriate adjustments. They did it last year and hopefully can pull it off again.

There are absolutely no comparisons between last Sunday's game and the disaster against the Eagles. The Steelers had 1st and goal three times against the Bengals. They only crossed mid-field 3 times against the Eagles.

The bottom line is that the offense failed to finish. They committed penalties and gave up sacks in the redzone and missed on a couple of TDs (Holmes dropped one and Ben missed Wallace on another).

Though I agree that Arians is a subpar coordinator, I am getting tired of Roethlisberger indirectly laying blame at the feet of Arians by saying "we did not let me call the plays enough." Ben is pretty clever in the way he deflects blame in that he does not say it directly, but says it nonetheless.

The Steelers' struggles against the Bengals can be attributed to FAR more than Arians. Ben had one of the worst games of his career. In fact, I would rank it among his three worst. He threw at least 5 passes straight into the line and had a lot of difficulty adjusting to the looks the Bengals were giving him.

[Vader]

I think there is a little oversimplification in here sometimes about what he is calling. The fact that BB throws a ball deep down the field doesn't mean that there wasn't a receiver underneath running a route to get the first or a TE or RB releasing or something. If BB goes to Heath Miller for the first down then BA called a great play but if he chucks it downfield then BA is an idiot for calling for a deep pass. In reality, it may have been the same play. Sometimes, the offense just needs to execute it and make the right decision.

-T

I think there is some oversimplification in your analysis. Yes, there were underneath routes. However there is always a primary WR. That is where the ball is suppose to go unless he is covered then you start the progression. Who ever calls the play decides the primary WR on the route. Ben doesn't just snap the ball and look for someone to be open somewhere... The play is designed to go deep so Ben went deep.

[Acereros]

The Steelers' struggles against the Bengals can be attributed to FAR more than Arians. Ben had one of the worst games of his career. In fact, I would rank it among his three worst. He threw at least 5 passes straight into the line and had a lot of difficulty adjusting to the looks the Bengals were giving him.

Care to list the other two Ben worst games? Thanks

[hook]

I'm glad there's a game today so this and all other similar threads will stop.

I'm guilty somewhat too, but by Tuesday I was done with it. It's a week later, get a grip A loss is a loss. Get over it and move on to discuss the KC game.

[Punxsutawney]

Care to list the other two Ben worst games? Thanks

The 2006 game against the Raiders is the obvious #1. The half he played against the Redskins last season, where Tomlin benched him at halftime, would probably rank 2nd

[Steelers Rule!]

Care to list the other two Ben worst games? Thanks

Vs Jacksonville 2006

Vs Colts 2006 regular season game.

[markymarc]

I'm glad there's a game today so this and all other similar threads will stop.

I'm guilty somewhat too, but by Tuesday I was done with it. It's a week later, get a grip A loss is a loss. Get over it and move on to discuss the KC game.

No kidding. Maybe we can get that happy feeling again after beating down the Chiefs today.

[chatman]

I'm not a Bruce Arians fan by any means. IMO Ben made bad decisions, could not throw timing routes, and just had a crappy game. All QBs will do it on occasion, even the best. He will play better as the season progresses, the line continues to gel, and the running game actually shows up.

when playcalling is like a chinese firedrill--who do you blame but the oc?ben has been doing it since he took his first snap in a steeler game--he is a great qb maybe the greatest we have ever had-time will tell

when you dont establish a run--your pass plays can easily turn into shit especially if the team you are playing has a good secondary--who you gonna trust ben or bruce--i think its a no brainer --how many times has ben made the winning touchdown drive calling plays--how many has bruce made--wake the -----up

[Toranaga]

Yes, but if you compile all the statements BA himself makes and the comments of the Olinemen, RB's, WR's, and even to some extent Ben himself, you clearly get the picture that he mostly calls for pass plays and the first read is almost always the deep one. several Players have noted that many of our run plays are audibles out of a pass play at the line and BA himself said that he feels the best way to beat pressure is to throw deep....

I dont know how one can look at our successful plays that are not audibles at the line or busted plays and get any sort of image that BA can playcall worth a damn. If it were simple execution then the busted plays and audibles would fail at the same rate....

I don't think that is true at all. You are seriously kidding yourself if you think you know who the first read is in most of our play calls. I also think people have the wrong idea about what a first read is - it doesn't mean you drop back and watch one guy to see if he gets open before you look at other people. It means he is the guy the play is designed to get the ball to. Ben may be on his second or third read before he even snaps the ball based on the defense he sees. So if BA calls a play and BB makes a wrong read and throws it deep anyway, was that a bad playcall by BA or a bad read by BB?

And as for who is calling which plays, he may also have predesigned audibles for a given play (e.g., if you see this, audible to this). Does that count as a BB call or a BA call? If he tells BB to run Pass X unless he sees something in the D in which case he should run Run Play X, then to me that is BA's play call. And when BB is calling his plays in the no huddle, what is BA talking about in his mic? How do you know he isn't giving him a play and options for audibles - or calling some plays and on others telling BB to pick among the preselected no huddle plays. My point is that it's all a collaboration between the OC and the QB so IMHO it is impossible to distinguish between what BA wants him to do with a play, what BB actually does with a play and whether they were the same thing.

Now, I'm not arguing that you can't look at the offense overall and make an argument that Bruce Arians isn't getting it done in a particular game (I would disagree that he is as bad as some people think he is though), but this idea that our successful plays are BB and the failures are BA is absurd. There is no way for you to know who is at fault for the failure of a given play. There are way too many variables.

-T

[Toranaga]

I think there is some oversimplification in your analysis. Yes, there were underneath routes. However there is always a primary WR. That is where the ball is suppose to go unless he is covered then you start the progression. Who ever calls the play decides the primary WR on the route. Ben doesn't just snap the ball and look for someone to be open somewhere... The play is designed to go deep so Ben went deep.

Sorry, but that's not how it works. First, watching the game on TV, you don't know who the primary receiver is. Second, for all you know, BB could be on his second read before he snaps the ball based on the D. Third, even you were right, you stated that "That is where the ball is suppose to go unless he is covered then you start the progression" - then why does BB throw deep into coverage instead of starting the progression? Fourth, you say that the play is designed to go deep so Ben went deep - by your own admission, that's not true. If a play is designed with one guy going deep (who may or may not be the primary receiver) then it is only supposed to go to him if he is open. If he is not open and Ben throws it to him anyway instead of hitting someone underneath then what you're telling me is that BB should have went through his progressions when the first guy wasn't open.

But you've sort of proved my point. "The play is designed to go deep so Ben went deep." You really think it is that simple?

-T

[Phinnster]

And Arians will still be here calling another shitty game


I'd like to think you're clairvoyant, but what else should we expect. BA is an arrogant tool.

[USDA#1]

Arians, rope, Clemente Bridge.

I just called a better series than the last one that idiot did.

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I don't think that is true at all. You are seriously kidding yourself if you think you know who the first read is in most of our play calls. I also think people have the wrong idea about what a first read is - it doesn't mean you drop back and watch one guy to see if he gets open before you look at other people. It means he is the guy the play is designed to get the ball to. Ben may be on his second or third read before he even snaps the ball based on the defense he sees. So if BA calls a play and BB makes a wrong read and throws it deep anyway, was that a bad playcall by BA or a bad read by BB?

And as for who is calling which plays, he may also have predesigned audibles for a given play (e.g., if you see this, audible to this). Does that count as a BB call or a BA call? If he tells BB to run Pass X unless he sees something in the D in which case he should run Run Play X, then to me that is BA's play call. And when BB is calling his plays in the no huddle, what is BA talking about in his mic? How do you know he isn't giving him a play and options for audibles - or calling some plays and on others telling BB to pick among the preselected no huddle plays. My point is that it's all a collaboration between the OC and the QB so IMHO it is impossible to distinguish between what BA wants him to do with a play, what BB actually does with a play and whether they were the same thing.

Now, I'm not arguing that you can't look at the offense overall and make an argument that Bruce Arians isn't getting it done in a particular game (I would disagree that he is as bad as some people think he is though), but this idea that our successful plays are BB and the failures are BA is absurd. There is no way for you to know who is at fault for the failure of a given play. There are way too many variables.

-T

what a load of double speak horseshit. Lots of typing to ultimately say nothing. Somebody sure loves to sound important.

[Eastshoresteelerfan]

Now, I'm not arguing that you can't look at the offense overall and make an argument that Bruce Arians isn't getting it done in a particular game (I would disagree that he is as bad as some people think he is though), but this idea that our successful plays are BB and the failures are BA is absurd. There is no way for you to know who is at fault for the failure of a given play. There are way too many variables.

-T

Still feel the same, Poindexter?