PDA

View Full Version : Overrated/Underrated Coaches


SteelerFan448
05-31-2008, 05:14 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3417631&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2

Kiffin, Moore deserve acclaim that Lewis, Fisher barely rate


Tennessee Titans head coach Jeff Fisher (left) and Marvin Lewis, head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals, are respected throughout the league. Some might question whether they have made the most of their opportunities.


Late last week, Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis opened minicamp with another one of his T-shirt gimmicks -- only this time there was no doubting the sense of urgency in his message.


The message on the back of the T-shirt: "Now." QB Carson Palmer said that in a team meeting Lewis provided a translation -- the Bengals had "enough talent in the locker room right now to win the Super Bowl."


Bold words from a head coach who, entering his sixth year at the helm in Cincinnati, has had exactly one season with a winning record. In fact, it's a slogan that Lewis could apply to himself.


The Bengals haven't even had a winning record in three seasons. In 2005, they finished 11-5, won the AFC North -- and were one-and-done in the playoffs.


Granted, in that wild-card matchup against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Lewis' star player, Palmer, was knocked out of the game. But the Bengals' defense -- Lewis' supposed strength -- allowed Ben Roethlisberger & Co. to walk up and down the field at will. Big Ben fired three touchdown passes -- the most he's thrown in a playoff game. And the Bengals collapsed, 31-17.


Remember, Lewis got the job in Cincinnati largely on the strength of the reputation he built as the defensive coordinator in Baltimore. In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens' defense was ranked first in the league and set a record for points allowed in a season (165), shutting out the Giants' offense in Super Bowl XXXV. But it's clear that Marvin Lewis had less to do with that defensive performance than Ray Lewis did -- and still does.



In the six seasons Marvin Lewis led the Ravens' defense, it ranked 30th, 27th, 23rd, second, first and fourth in total yards allowed. In the six years since, the Ravens defense has finished 22nd, fourth, sixth, fifth, first, and sixth. Not much difference. In 2006 -- four seasons after Lewis left Baltimore -- the Ravens ranked first in the league in scoring defense, surrendering just 201 points. Last season, the Bengals' defense ranked 27th in total yards allowed.


In Cincinnati, Lewis has a record of 42-38. But he's only 16-24 against teams with a record of .500 or better. He's 26-14 against teams with a losing record. Last season, the Bengals beat only two teams that finished with a winning record and only one of them, the Tennessee Titans, squeaked into the postseason.


Critics of the Bengals are always quick to blame stingy ownership responsible for a bare bones scouting department that has drafted some of the worst problem children in recent NFL history. True enough. But many coaches would sacrifice their Cadillac SUVs for the talent that Lewis has had at key offensive positions, including left tackle, wide receiver and quarterback -- especially QB. If Palmer were in the NFC, he'd be the best quarterback in the conference. He is a player of immense talent who should have been in a position to compete for a Super Bowl title by -- pun intended -- "now."


So, why all the gushing over Marvin Lewis? He's a good guy who's good with the media. But as a head coach, he's overrated.

Another coach who seems to get a free pass is Jeff Fisher, the coach of the Titans.


Fisher, who rode Buddy Ryan's coattails to the NFL, still is riding high on the memory of one indelible image: being one yard short of defeating the high flying St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV.


At the start of the 2008 season, Fisher will be the NFL's longest tenured head coach. Why?


If you count 1994, when he finished out the year for Jack Pardee, Fisher is beginning his 15th season as head coach of the Oilers/Titans franchise. Let's say the 1994 season doesn't count (he went 1-5 to finish the year, yet got the permanent gig anyway). Fisher has gone to the postseason in just five of his 13 full seasons as a head coach. Five winning seasons. Four losing seasons. Four seasons of 8-8. And how exactly is that anything but mediocre?


Fisher's won-loss record of 115-99 (.537) barely cracks sea level, and his playoff record is 5-5. Yet, every year he is bathed in media holy water as one of the bright, young coaches in the league. When Bill Parcells retired from the Dallas Cowboys, it was rumored that Dallas owner Jerry Jones would pay any price to get Fisher down in Big D. Again, why?


But strip away the carefully crafted Fisher veneer and you get one mediocre head coach who doesn't deserve the constant doting of the national media.


Fisher grew up in Ryan's 46 defense. Yet, in all his years with the Oilers/Titans, Fisher's teams finished ranked better than 10th in points allowed just three times: 1995, 2000 and last season. Same story on offense. Only two seasons did Fisher's teams finish in the top 10 in points scored: 1999 and 2003.


Let's compare Fisher to another head coach who doesn't get nearly the lavish praise: Dennis Green. As of 2006, Green, too, had 13 seasons as a head coach. His record was 113-94 -- six more wins than Fisher over 13 seasons. Green made the playoffs in eight of those 13 seasons. Yet, Green is unemployed. Fisher is in demand.

While Green's poor showing in the playoffs (4-8) is constantly regurgitated, Fisher's failures in big games are overlooked. So, let's look.


Example 1: Titans finished the 2003 regular season 12-4, go to New England in the divisional playoffs. Lose to the Patriots, 17-14.


Example 2: Titans finished the 2002 regular season 11-5, lose to the Oakland Raiders in the AFC championship game. Bill Callahan's offense stomps all over the defensive genius -- 41-24 Raiders.



Example 3: Titans finished the 2000 regular season 13-3, win the old AFC Central for the first time. Don't forget, that year, Tennessee finished second in the league in fewest points allowed and total yards. Trent Dilfer and Ray Lewis & Co. just came into Nashville and stripped Fisher's team of its manhood: Baltimore, 24-10.



Example 4: Titans finish the 1999 regular season 13-3, advance to Super Bowl XXXIV against the Rams. Kurt Warner plays pitch and catch all day. Fisher's defense has no answer, allowing the winning 73-yard touchdown pass from Warner to Isaac Bruce with 1:54 left. Even with Steve McNair's late-game heroics factored in, Fisher's coaching performance should go down as one of the most overrated in Super Bowl history.



By the way, let's not forget something. It was Fisher who demanded the Titans draft Adam (Pacman) Jones in the first round over the objections of his scouting staff. Jones, the poster child for NFL bad boy behavior, was traded to the Cowboys for a song.



Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin (left) and Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Tom Moore have excelled in the shadows for years, but neither has been a head coach in the NFL.
Now, here are two coaches who don't get their due and who should have been given greater consideration for head coaching jobs a long, long time ago: Monte Kiffin and Tom Moore. Both are vastly underrated.


Moore has labored in relative obscurity in his 30 years in the NFL. He started coaching in the NFL when Jon Gruden was still in elementary school. But who has been more recognized for their accomplishments? Chuckie, of course. Yet, Moore has been instrumental in helping three teams win Super Bowl rings.



Moore's longevity is historic, and his career underappreciated and underrated. Consider this: As receivers coach in Pittsburgh in the late 1970s, Moore was instrumental in helping Pittsburgh win Super Bowls XIII (1978) and XIV (1979).

In the 2006 season, Moore helped the Colts' offense (with rookie running back Joseph Addai ) win Super Bowl XLI. So 27 years separated Moore's last two Super Bowl rings -- the largest gap for any assistant coach in league history. That's an impact that has lasted two generations of football players.



Moore joined the Indianapolis Colts in 1998 as offensive coordinator, assembling one of the most prolific units in NFL history. Yes, it helps to have Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.



But the Colts are the only NFL offense ever to have a 4,000 yard passer and a 1,000-yard rusher in three straight seasons (1999-2001) -- the first two years it was Manning, Harrison and James; when James got injured in 2001, Dominic Rhodes replaced him and the Colts didn't miss a beat.



Another guy who is vastly underrated is Kiffin.



In Super Bowl XLI, the two head coaches were Tony Dungy of the Colts and Lovie Smith of the Bears -- two former Bucs coaches who learned the so-called Tampa 2 defense from Kiffin. In 11 of the 12 years Kiffin has been in Tampa, the Bucs' defense has finished in the top 10 in both yards and points allowed. In both categories, Kiffin's defense ranked first in the league in the 2002 season, the campaign that ended with the Bucs winning Super Bowl XXXVII.



Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, Kiffin is the only defensive coordinator to lead the league in fewest points allowed twice within a four-season period (2002 and 2005).



In the Dungy head coaching era in Tampa, if the Bucs had Tom Moore's offense and Kiffin's defense, they might have won multiple Super Bowls. They certainly would have beaten the Rams in the 1999 NFC Championship Game. Remember that game? In the deafening dome in St. Louis, the Bucs' defense nearly authored a monumental upset by holding those record-setting, high-flying Rams to just one touchdown, losing 11-6.



It was a Tampa loss, but might have been Kiffin's finest moment.



This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, available in bookstores and at Amazon.com.

---------------------------------

I agree that Fisher and Lewis are overrated. While Lewis was a good coordinator, he has been a mediocre to bad head coach. As the article pointed out, Fisher has underachieved much of his career, but that always seems to be overlooked. A couple of other names that I always considered to be a bit overrated are Mike Shanahan and Jon Gruden. Shanahan hasn't had too much success post Elway/Davis and Gruden hasn't done anything special since leaving Oakland.

SteelrzGirl
05-31-2008, 05:19 PM
Ive always thought Shanahan was overrated and seems to get more blow jobby press than he deserves.

I now consider Lewis overrated. I kind of raised my eyebrow when he came to Cinci and thought he was going to do the opposite of what he's done.

I really want to cock punch Fisher. I just hate him. So I dont think I can make an unbiased judgement.

THE flafan
05-31-2008, 05:29 PM
I

I really want to cock punch Fisher. I just hate him. So I dont think I can make an unbiased judgement.

not sure he has one.........I agree, that guy gets on my nerves no end...I think it's the cheesy mustache and the slicked down hair.

LetMePlay
05-31-2008, 05:29 PM
Andy Reid has to be on the list of overrated coaches.

SteelrzGirl
05-31-2008, 05:31 PM
not sure he has one.........I agree, that guy gets on my nerves no end...I think it's the cheesy mustache and the slicked down hair.

Maybe thats it. I cant quite put my finger on it. I usually am very capable of admiring and respecting talent outside of the Steelers, so thats not the issue.

steelersoldier
05-31-2008, 05:54 PM
this argument is stupid. fisher is a good coach. he hasn't had the best teams. his best player on most of his teams was mcnair. mcnair was always injured plus he wasn't that good. other than that he had dyson. once again not a good player. the team he has now is a joke. there is no talent on that team. there isn't a player on that team from last year that would even compete for a starting job on our team. vince young is terrible. he is a joke and he gets alot of credit cause he beat usc in college. fisher knows how to win and he proved it last year. if you want to blame somebody in that organizaion blame the higher ups. this argument is a joke. oh yeah on top of all of this he is coaching in probably the toughest division in all of football. the only reason we won the afc north is cause all the teams suck and we got lucky PERIOD!!!!

steelersoldier
05-31-2008, 05:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ive always thought Shanahan was overrated and seems to get more blow jobby press than he deserves.


i agree to that tho

Steelerman58
05-31-2008, 06:15 PM
Personally, I think Jon Gruden is overrated. He took a Tampa Bay Bucs team that Tony Dungy built to a SB & defeated an Oakland Raider team that he built, & ain't done shit since.

SteelrzGirl
05-31-2008, 06:22 PM
Id agree with that. I think Gruden isnt bad, but sometimes they make him out to be great. Im not sure he's great.

markymarc
05-31-2008, 10:44 PM
I actually think Fisher is a decent coach. Marvin Lewis, Andy Reid and Sean Payton are way overrated. I also think Jack Del Rio should get more kudos. He is a very good coach.

steelermania
06-01-2008, 12:30 AM
Marvin gets a lot of hype because of how dreadful the Bengals were before he got there. Some guys can lift a horrible team, and make them competitive, but no more than that. He may be one of those guys. Reid is Cowher and Dungy before they finally won. Also, Dungy learned the basics of cover 2 right here in the Burgh. Kifin may have added to it, but the guy is making an overstatement. Tom Moore is good, but he's sure had some good players to work with too. He wasn't exactly lighting it up with Mark Malone and company. As for Fisher, he might be slightly overrated, but it's no coincidence that his best stretch of seasons just happened to be during the five seasons that Steve McNair was a solid to very good qb. It took McNair a while to mature, but he was very solid from 99-03, and that was a very good stretch for the Titans. The injuries finally caught up to McNair in 04, and he dropped off quickly after that, as did the Titans. Point is, it's tough to win without a good qb, and Fisher has only had one during the 4-5 season where McNair was at his peak.

Stryker
06-01-2008, 12:55 AM
Most overrated coach ever? Herm Edwards. The guy has a career record below 500, can't win in the playoffs, and alienates his players. So what does he do? Breaks a contract with his jet employers to work for KC who WANTED HIM?!?!? Why anyone would want a coach who constantly loses games due to poor game management is beyond me.

Herm leaving the Jets was the best thing for them. They finally can beat us now. Look out for them this year.

scstillerfan
06-01-2008, 01:10 AM
I think Fisher is a very good coach. The guy always respected our Steelers and knew the division title went through Pittsburgh. Let's not forget all the injuries at key positions he had to deal with (thanks steelermania). Same goes for Herm with the Jets.

On the other hand, I disagree with the underated coaches. Look at the weapons Moore and Kiffin had to work with. Please. Try bringing talent to places like Green Bay, New Orleans, and Buffalo. Any coach that can win there is underrated.

Punxsutawney
06-01-2008, 08:31 AM
Most overrated coach ever? Herm Edwards. The guy has a career record below 500, can't win in the playoffs, and alienates his players. So what does he do? Breaks a contract with his jet employers to work for KC who WANTED HIM?!?!? Why anyone would want a coach who constantly loses games due to poor game management is beyond me.

Herm leaving the Jets was the best thing for them. They finally can beat us now. Look out for them this year.

I think the Chiefs wanting Edwards had a lot to do with the glowing endorsement he received from Vermeil.

I do not think Edwards is a bad coach. The Jets were not exactly an overly talented team during his tenure in New York and he had them in the playoffs basically every year and they would have beat the Steelers in the 2004 playoffs had their kicker been worth a damn.

In Kansas City, Edwards has inherited an aging, rebuilding team. The Chiefs currenty have no QB, no o-line, and no defense.

LetMePlay
06-01-2008, 09:55 AM
Come to think of it, I think that coaching in general is overrated.

Players are way more important.

Idioteque
06-01-2008, 11:55 AM
I don't see how Andy Reid is overrated.

Herm Edwards needs to top that list.

SteelerFan448
06-01-2008, 12:21 PM
Come to think of it, I think that coaching in general is overrated.

Players are way more important.

I was thinking that way. I really couldn't think of a coach that was truely underrated. I thought about Dungy for awhile, but he just won a Super Bowl, plus, he has Peyton Manning at QB.

I don't see how Andy Reid is overrated.

I don't think he's over or underrated. He's what Bill Cowher was before winning the Super Bowl. A lot of success but just can't win the big game. I wouldn't want him coaching the Steelers, but the Eagles have done very well under him, with and without McNabb.

LetMePlay
06-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Andy Reid has the same problem of most overrated coaches. He puts the system before his players.

His play calling cost them at least 2 of the champ games.

topseed
06-01-2008, 03:18 PM
Moore's longevity is historic, and his career underappreciated and underrated. Consider this: As receivers coach in Pittsburgh in the late 1970s, Moore was instrumental in helping Pittsburgh win Super Bowls XIII (1978) and XIV (1979).


I'd say Swann and Stallworth were around long enough by 1978 to know the ropes without requiring an "instrumental" receivers coach.

My grandmother would probably have a couple of Super Bowl rings too, if she'd had Moore's job those two years.

steelreeling
06-01-2008, 04:06 PM
I think the Chiefs wanting Edwards had a lot to do with the glowing endorsement he received from Vermeil.

I do not think Edwards is a bad coach. The Jets were not exactly an overly talented team during his tenure in New York and he had them in the playoffs basically every year and they would have beat the Steelers in the 2004 playoffs had their kicker been worth a damn.



He had one HELL of a RB, Wayne Chrebet, Me-Shaun (actually might have been a hinderance, but hey, coaching right?), James Farrior, & some fucking nasty DTs. He shoulda gotten it done.

LetMePlay
06-01-2008, 05:45 PM
I always felt that Barry Switzer was underrated as an NFL coach.




























I'm kidding.

Todd
06-01-2008, 08:49 PM
I don't think you can call Herm Edwards overrated. Most everybody agrees that he sucks.

south dakota STEEL
06-01-2008, 09:00 PM
I think that we, the Nation, are underrated as coaches. We can call a pretty good game while posting.


I think Jerry Jones may be the worst coach EVER.