An interesting read, from Dutch Wydo...
Roethlisberger better than Manning
By Dutch Wydo
http://www.heraldstandard.com/news_d...n-manning.html
It is undoubtedly a very small group that would take Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to lead their team instead of Peyton Manning of the Indianapolis Colts. But even if you do fall into that select group, there is a good chance that you won’t admit it.
After all, admitting such a thing publicly would only invite ridicule. If you live in southwestern Pennsylvania, as I do, you would be considered a homer to state such an opinion. Your credibility would immediately be attacked. You could be chastised, mocked, publicly humiliated, and perhaps even spat upon for considering such argument.
Yet, through it all, the facts are clearly on your side. The following is a question-and-answer exchange I recently had with a Manning backer on this subject. Enjoy!
Manning Backer: You only want to talk about Ben having more rings up to this point. That doesn’t tell the whole story. Ben having more rings has nothing to do with him being better than Manning. Can’t you see this?
Dutch Wydo: Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl victory up to this point because he out-performed Manning at Indianapolis in the 2005 playoffs. Roethlisberger came out throwing and put two early touchdowns on the board and staked his team to what turned out to be an insurmountable 14-point lead. That was the difference in the game and the reason why Ben has one more ring up to this point.
MB: Ok, How many rings do you think Manning would have if he was the quarterback of the Steelers this decade?
DW: Just one. I don’t believe he could have won a Super Bowl behind the current offensive line of the Steelers.
MB: Cmon! Don’t you see that Ben has been in a better situation in Pittsburgh?
DW: Incorrect. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent at running back. He was throwing to guys like Cedric Wilson and Antwaan Randle El. He even had a rookie tight end starting on that ‘05 team. This is hardly Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.
MB: I’m sorry, but you need to consider everything. Just look at the stats. What do the stats tell you?
DW: I’m sorry, but maybe you have not considered everything. What if Roethlisberger had played his home games in a dome? Ben has played seven indoor games and boasts a passer rating of 113. He has 14 TD passes against only five interceptions. Roethlisberger has completed 68 percent of his throws indoors at a majestic 9.4 yards per attempt. Unfortunately, he is stuck playing at Heinz Field and has to endure mud, rain, snow, and wind, along with a revolving set of receivers throughout most of his career. Yeah, great situation! Now, let me ask you a question. If you take both quarterbacks and have to choose one to play a road game, which one would you take?
MB: I think the answer is obvious. I’m taking Manning, as he is superior.
DW: Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Roethlisberger has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Manning has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Your perception that Manning is so superior simply does not equal reality, my friend.
MB: You just don’t get it do you? Ben has had a great running game in place for most of his career.
DW: Edgerrin James rushed for more than 1,500 yards four times throughout his time with Manning and the Colts. Roethlisberger has never had a 1,500-yard running back.
MB: Defense, Defense, Defense, Dutch. Peyton would have won at least three Super Bowls with that Steeler defense. C’mon! Can’t you see this?
DW: In eight post season losses, Manning’s offense averaged just 13 points per game. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Even in two playoff losses to the Patriots and Jaguars, Roethlisberger’s offense was able to put 29 and 27 points, respectively, on the scoreboard.
MB: So you are trying to say that Ben is the reason they won their playoff games?
DW: Roethlisberger has the highest postseason third-down passer rating of 121.5 last five years. Should I credit Dick LeBeau for that? Besides, before this postseason started, Roethlisberger had a better passer rating, more yards per attempt, and a higher completion percentage in the postseason than Manning. You clearly underrate Roethlisberger.
MB: Are you trying to say the Colts defense has been better than the Steelers defense?
DW: No. But Indianapolis’ defense has been the beneficiary of 210 turnovers since 2003. The Steelers defense has collected 190. The Colts are 16-3 over last three seasons when their defense gets two turnovers. The Steelers are 10-4. Getting defensive turnovers can be quite helpful to a quarterback as they will get short fields to work with and convert them into quick scores. This year, the New Orleans Saints averaged 11 points per game off turnovers. The Steelers cornerbacks didn’t have an interception until the final week of the regular season. In fact, the Steelers offense this season projected to score 23.8 points per game based on yards and turnover differential. A lack of defensive turnovers and consistently poor special teams held back a Steeler offense averaging 6.2 yards per play, more than anything else.
MB: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Peyton Manning or Ben.
DW: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Jeff Hartwig or Jeff Saturday?
MB: Dutch, look at how Pierre Garcon has played at wide feceiver this season for the Colts. Don’t you see that is because of Peyton Manning? Peyton Manning makes wide receivers.
DW: Considering the success that Steelers receiver Mike Wallace had this year, the success that Heath Miller had as a rookie, not to mention the performance Santonio Holmes had the last half of 2006. I guess that means Roethlisberger makes wide receivers, too. Also note that Nate Washington averaged 16 yards per reception with Roethlisberger as his quarterback. The averaged fell to twelve per reception this season with the Tennessee Titans. Again, Roethlisberger makes wide receivers.
MB: I think most would agree that Manning is perhaps the greatest quarterback of all time.
DW: To be the best of all time, then you would have to project to be the best in previous generations. Considering that Manning’s offense is built around great timing with his receivers, I’m not convinced he would have able to achieve so much success, say, in the 1970s when his receivers would have had their heads taken off and he was forced to scramble around and make plays. That is not his game. In fact, it wasn’t until Colts General Manager Bill Polian convinced the NFL in 2004 to strictly enforce the five-yard chuck rule so that his boy could get through the playoffs. Roethlisberger is great right now and would have been great in the 1960s or 1970s.
MB: Look at how Manning attacked the Jets backup cornerback when they lost their starting corner to injury. Manning is a student of the game.
DW: Of course. Manning is the only quarterback in the NFL that has the wisdom to immediately go after a back up corner who just came into the game. He’s a genius.
MB: Who do you like in the Super Bowl?
DW: Colts 38-24. It's all about Manning!
Dutch is a sports talk host on wmbs590 radio saturday mornings 9-10 am. You can email Dutch at smartmonies@gmail.com.
Last edited by Sean; 02-08-2010 at 03:47 PM.
I must say the past few weeks with all the Peyton talk about being the best obviously they have brought up a couple QB's in the past decade and Ben Roethlisberger's name wasn't even mentioned. Now I know I am a complete homer but how can you overlook him? He has only gotten better sense he stepped into the league and is up their in my opinion with Brady & Manning.
AWESOME, i need this Dutch guy with me on Sunday's at the bar.
I know after Manning threw that pic, that Big Ben had to have a doggy-dog-sly smile on his face. HA!
SOMETHING ROUND THE EYES
http://www.myspace.com/srteband
manning is a punk.. I am so tired of the love the nfl gives him. he should of had 3 picks last night... he is a big cry baby, did you see his body language after the missed 51 yard kick... really, this is your team's leader.. idiot kicker... blames oline.. Say what you want Ben is a leader and takes responsibility for his team.
How dare you even suggest such a thing? Hater....
Lol, I have had similar conversations with a couple of people I know. I don't think I ever suggested Ben was outright better than Peyton, but at the same level? Certainly...this one guy I know insists that Carson Palmer is much better than Ben and any NFL head coach would readily pick Palmer over Ben. Stats and records were brushed aside and ignored.
I don't get the lack of respect for Ben, even among some Steelers fans.
I said it last night and I'll say it again now...
Give me Ben Roethlisberger over Peyton Manning any day. When the biggest game of their lives is on the line, Ben Roethlisberger throws a strike to Santonio Holmes in the back corner of the end zone. Manning? He throws pick 6's.
Roethlisberger won't retire with stats that are similar to Manning's, but I don't need him to run my fantasy team. I want him to be the one with the rock in his hands when the pressure is on.
Roethlisberger IS better than Manning. Lombardi trophies don't give a flying [FILTH] about records.
One could definitely argue who is better. I would say 100% without a doubt though that Ben is more clutch than Manning. If you're down 4 will 2 minutes,who would you rather have guide your offense? Ben has proven time and time again he can drive you down the field for the winning score. One could obviously point to last year's Super Bowl,and then there was the Packers this year,Jags last year,Jags his rookie year. Those just off the top of my head. Manning threw the interception last night,and there could have been another as the one in the end zone on the ensuing drive looked like a pick to me
I had this exact discussion with a friend when the Jets and Indy played earlier in the AFCCG. Early in that game Peyton was obviously bothered by the pressure and on one sack just fell to the ground like a girl before getting hit because he knew it was coming. I told my buddy then I dont care how good Manning's numbers are, I wouldn't trade Ben for him ever. Ben has so many intangibles that Peyton doesnt. I would love to see Manning play behind our OL.....everyone knows if you pressure Manning and get to him, he gets easily frustrated. Ben on the other hand is at his best under pressure.
I was thinking this myself.
Super Bowl-winning drives in the last 4 minutes of the game:
Ben 1
Peyton 0 (ended in an interception).
Light-skinned with no Negro dialect.
"Steeler Nation does not have to travel. Sometimes we're already there." -- Scott Paulsen
How'd the rest of that game go for Peyton? Might not be the best example.Originally Posted by Johnnylaw
19Then came the disciples to JESUS apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20And JESUS said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
- Matthew 17:19-21, King James Version
Last night as Manning was driving with about 3:00 left in the game I turned to my friend the *'s fan to my right and my friend the Bronco's fan to my left and said, no doubt about it. If you're in the situation the best quarterback in the league to have behind center right now is Ben Roethlisberger.
*'s fan looked at me funny and I said. "I guarantee you under these circumstances Roeth would score a TD one way or another." and you know it. After a moment he shrugged and said, ya probably.
Last year after the Cards went up and everybody was going crazy with glee (watched the game at Church like I do every year.) I just sat there quietly. I knew they'd left too much time on the board and I was confident Ben could at least get them into FG range with that much time left. Turns out I was only half right.
Unleash the butterflies!
Told my buddy last night. Ben > Manning
Oh and San Diego bandwagon fans, Brees > Rivers. Choke on that San Diego
"I demand entertainment." Spike
Just want to stress the point that Manning's great numbers have been put up mostly in domed stadiums. The NFL ought to put asterisks on his records. Take him out of his comfort zone and he looks merely normal, not the best ever. That was on display again last night. He did have some great throws, but he's simply not the best ever. He wasn't even the best on the field last night.
As I texted to some friends last night after the pick, '& that's why Ben is the best QB today. 2 Rings: No cheating, no choking'.
When Peyton gets rattled or frustrated, his accuracy is off a little. Makes for harder catchs by the wr's too. If you watch Peyton at the goal line, he had trouble deleivering the ball. Lost his confidence. Ben not so, plays better under that kind of pressure, cuz the Oline makes him do it on a regular basis.
And that is a money statement right there. As Dutch says, that offense is based on perfect timing. Think back to the divisional game leading up to XL...our defensive backs where pounding Marvin Harrison at the line of scrimmage and it completely rattled the "Greatest QB of All-Time" and that offense.DW: To be the best of all time, then you would have to project to be the best in previous generations. Considering that Manning’s offense is built around great timing with his receivers, I’m not convinced he would have able to achieve so much success, say, in the 1970s when his receivers would have had their heads taken off and he was forced to scramble around and make plays. That is not his game. In fact, it wasn’t until Colts General Manager Bill Polian convinced the NFL in 2004 to strictly enforce the five-yard chuck rule so that his boy could get through the playoffs. Roethlisberger is great right now and would have been great in the 1960s or 1970s.
Ben Roethlisberger uses timing to his advantage on certain routes, but when the play breaks down...that is when he is at his best. Usually, if his receiver isn't where he needs to be and there is a bit of pressure coming, he pulls it down and creates more time for himself.
If you put Manning in a situation where he doesn't have a great offensive line, he folds like oragami. And when the timing is offset by a cornerback jumping a route, you get an interception (much like Terry Porter last night and Troy Polamalu back in 2005).
Thats why I said "early in the game".....the rest of the game he played well after making adjustments. The point was (that you obviously missed) is when he is pressured he folds like a baby. Peyton is probably the best ever at adjusting pre-snap and finding that first read, BUT if he doesn't get that first or second read and gets pressured....he is average at very best.
Geez ... maybe Ben IS better!
Clearly most here don't know much. Manning himself told indy, if you don't take me (draft), I'll torment you for the next 15years. So only the BEST qb ever could say something like that.
Salute the nation and BR
View Profile 
View Forum Posts 
Private Message 
View Blog Entries 
View Articles 
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks