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Thread: 2017 NFL Draft Q&A

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litos View Post
    I bet some queers around here would love to erect you
    Yeah, thankfully Coolie is still fucking Supe...

    But let's not high jack the thread. Lol.
    RIP CK

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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerfan81 View Post
    Does he have Facebook? Email? Anyway I could reach him?
    I don't have his email and don't even really know his true name. Just via the other board and here. And, he stated he would drift by and read, so if he is inclined to post, he will. Again, I'm not interested in getting after him.

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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    And, I'll tell you one other thing, the HARDEST part about scouting defense for the Steelers right now is understanding fit. Do you know what they want? Four years ago, it was easy. With Butler, DL is pressing up the field, shooting gaps, they are drafting press corners and safeties that can cover. Complete change from the old LeBeau style.

    So, do they draft a big thumper at ILB (like Hightower) or do they go $backer (like a Bucannon)? Do they still value a nickel highly (like they did with Golson)? Is McCullers doomed because he struggles to rush a passer? Will they ever draft another Hampton? Is dropping for an OLB as important as pass rushing now? Would a guy like Reddick or Anderson fit at OLB because they are jacks of all trades, masters of none and the versatility is what they crave?

    Answer those, finding the players is easy.
    That is something I try to tell all my friends about this process. I'm making a big board of talent, not for a specific team and I stress all the time that scheme fit means a LOT. Making a board for a specific team, with specific needs with a stable coaching staff is much easier than what I try to put together every year.

    And where these kids end up, the depth chart in front of them, what the coaching staff is asking them to do really does make a difference. Sure the cream will rise to the top. Work ethic, health and the ability to learn on the fly is so much more important in the pros than in college. Camp is so rushed and they just don't slow down for anyone.

    I agree with looking at prospects SPECIFICALLY for the Steelers. It is a bit harder now. In the 7-round mock-the-mock thread, I did a "what I think the Steelers will do" and I just constantly picked guys that looked similar to players on their roster.

    I do worry that the team will go overboard on a particular "trait" in this draft. They have done that in the past. One year it was speed. One year it was special teams. One year it was turnovers. I think this year it could me man coverage skills. They might "overdraft" that ability (although I think they have drastically underdrafted it in the past).

    That's my only concern.

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  4. #84
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    Thanks for coming back TMC as you've been missed here. I really appreciate your knowledge and time involved. Again thanks for coming back.

    My question is.......what is the one spot in PITTSBURGH to get a true Pittsburghian lunch?


    Salute the nation
    If YOUR life isn't offering any smiles, you need to change your lifestyle!!! :)

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  5. #85
    Win 7 for Dan in Heaven! Cope's Avatar

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    Great having you back for this discussion TMC. You are mentioned often when we are discussing knowledge of the game, even though it's been years since you posted. That is the sign of what makes a poster add to a site and what makes it better, having you here. Thanks for the insight. For the record, you were right about Dri Archer. I was optimistic, but wrong. You were right!

    Now on to the draft. Having posters like you and Del here actually gets me excited for the draft. This year, I was very behind in my knowledge, but after reading your posts, and the passion you have about potential prospects, it gets me excited again. I love downloading and following Del's player rankings, because he understands the team needs and the board is filled out with a Steelers' perspective as opposed to the ESPN version of talent, which may work for some teams, but not all teams.

    Now for my question. I enjoy reading mock drafts and I came across one on Behind the Steel Curtain where Nick Martin did his 7 round draft. http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...-wide-receiver

    I agree the QBs this year do not excite me at all, however he has a QB in the 7th, that isn't on many draft lists that I can find. It's Phillip Nelson from ESU. He has good size. Nice poise. I super quick release. looks accurate and can make NFL caliber throws (like hitting the deep outs over the CB in front of the S). I personally don't think he looks any worse than the QBs in this draft, but I'm not a film guy. Do you like any late round prospects this year at QB?

    I do know WRs though, and I love Godwin. He has the size/speed/hands/routes that NFL starters have. I fell in love with him much like you and I both fell in love with Keenan Allen back when he was drafted. I'd consider Godwin at 30, since I don't think he will slide to 62.

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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Drink IRON City View Post
    Thanks for coming back TMC as you've been missed here. I really appreciate your knowledge and time involved. Again thanks for coming back.

    My question is.......what is the one spot in PITTSBURGH to get a true Pittsburghian lunch?


    Salute the nation
    I have no idea. I have never been to Pittsburgh.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Great having you back for this discussion TMC. You are mentioned often when we are discussing knowledge of the game, even though it's been years since you posted. That is the sign of what makes a poster add to a site and what makes it better, having you here. Thanks for the insight. For the record, you were right about Dri Archer. I was optimistic, but wrong. You were right!

    Now on to the draft. Having posters like you and Del here actually gets me excited for the draft. This year, I was very behind in my knowledge, but after reading your posts, and the passion you have about potential prospects, it gets me excited again. I love downloading and following Del's player rankings, because he understands the team needs and the board is filled out with a Steelers' perspective as opposed to the ESPN version of talent, which may work for some teams, but not all teams.

    Now for my question. I enjoy reading mock drafts and I came across one on Behind the Steel Curtain where Nick Martin did his 7 round draft. http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...-wide-receiver

    I agree the QBs this year do not excite me at all, however he has a QB in the 7th, that isn't on many draft lists that I can find. It's Phillip Nelson from ESU. He has good size. Nice poise. I super quick release. looks accurate and can make NFL caliber throws (like hitting the deep outs over the CB in front of the S). I personally don't think he looks any worse than the QBs in this draft, but I'm not a film guy. Do you like any late round prospects this year at QB?

    I do know WRs though, and I love Godwin. He has the size/speed/hands/routes that NFL starters have. I fell in love with him much like you and I both fell in love with Keenan Allen back when he was drafted. I'd consider Godwin at 30, since I don't think he will slide to 62.
    Okay, couple things. I hate that I was right about Archer. Being right on that does not help the Steelers win. I really don't give a crap who the guy is they draft because I don't personally know any of the picks, I just want good players. I did not think he was. And, in the media room, they had passed out bios on Martavis Bryant, who they planned on taking there, and then changed to Archer. What if Bryant had been picked by someone else. That could have really stung. I just hate missing on guys. It hurts the team. It costs us wins. I like winning a helluva lot more than I like being right. I truly do. So, meh, that isn't a win to me. It is like laying my hand on an anvil and telling someone if they hit it with a hammer it will hurt. Once they do it, I'm right....but I would have rather been wrong.

    I haven't truly studied the QBs in this draft because I'm not excited about them. I mean, Webb is okay. Peterman is okay. For a 7th, I could live with Nelson. But, meh, none of them are replacing Ben. Look at it this way, this draft is weak at QB. Everyone kind of accepts it. So, if you are drafting 30th in a weak draft, is that a smart move to nab a QB? What are the odds that next year we draft at a lower spot? They are 1 in 16. So, statistically, we should have a better spot at a QB next year in a draft expected to be deeper. And, this draft is deep in areas that can help. So, I just cannot get behind a QB this year. Next year, maybe. When Ben leaves, we probably suck a year, I'd guess top 10 in the draft the next year. Pick one then.

    I like Godwin. I really like Zay Jones. But, this draft is deep at WR. I mean, Josh Reynolds, who the Steelers visited at TAMU, is 6026, 194 pounds and ran a 4.52. Good deep threat. In most drafts, he would probably sneak into the 3rd. He is considered a 5th or later right now. Why? Deep draft. DEEP. So, while I think Godwin is a stud, I'm not so sure there won't be a stud at a position of need at the same spot. I'm not against it. It depends on the board.

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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by deljzc View Post
    I do worry that the team will go overboard on a particular "trait" in this draft. They have done that in the past. One year it was speed. One year it was special teams. One year it was turnovers. I think this year it could me man coverage skills. They might "overdraft" that ability (although I think they have drastically underdrafted it in the past).

    That's my only concern.
    One of the things I think they have done since the Jarvis Jones draft is focus more on the athletic traits. If you look at the drafts after that with Shazier, Tuitt, Burns, Davis, Hargrave...all were very athletic for their positions. While Burns SPARQ score was average, good 40 and showed athleticism on film. I think that trend continues. And, I think they add more press players this draft. I would expect a safety that can play in the box/slot and a press corner...at the least.

    One other tip about scouting guys, invest in a 2nd monitor. You can buy a HDMI to VGA converter and run dual monitors. You can put video on one, take notes on the other. You'll chew up film much faster.

  9. #89
    About the QBs.... and Ben...I get that everyone is sweating his retirement and how it could come soon. If Ben retires, the Steelers could ask for him to pay back any signing bonus that is allocated to years not played (Barry Sanders rule). So, this is what Ben could be losing if he retires:
    If he retires in 2018, he does not get a $5M roster bonus or $12M salary and could have to pay back up to $12.4 million in paid bonus money. So, not including lost future salary, he could lose $17M in new money and write a check for $12.4 million.
    If he retires in 2019, he has the same salary/roster bonus, so he foregoes $17M in new money and could have to pay back $6.2M in bonus.

    That is a lot of money to leave on the table and if you have to write a check for those amounts, that stings as well. He has a great financial incentive to continue to play.

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  10. #90
    I also want to point this out about how this draft can unfold. One of the things I do this time of year is try to look at as many mock drafts as I can, even from idiots, because one idiot in a team's war room and they can affect a draft. This one came out yesterday......
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...nds-in-round-1

    Here is your bucket of players at each position:
    #30-Taco Charlton is the pick (not my choice). Tre'Davious White, Obi Melifonwu, Chidobe Awuzie, Zay Jones, Quincy Wilson, Budda Baker, Carl Lawson
    #62-Fabian Moreau, Tim Williams, Gerald Everett, Dawuane Smoot, Sidney Jones, Chris Godwin, Derek Rivers
    #94-Ryan Anderson, Ahkello Witherspoon, Carroll Phillips, Marcus Williams
    #105-Trey Hendrickson, Elijah Qualls, John Johnson, Marcus Maye, Wayne gallman, Samaje Perine, Rasul Douglas
    #135-Marlon Mack, Josh Carraway, Hunter Dimick, Anthony Walker, Howard Wilson, Jarron Jones, Vince Biegel, Delano Hill
    #173-Dalvin Tomlinson, Ryan Switzer, Brian Hill.

    Those are some pretty good pools of players.

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  11. #91
    I'm not worried about Ben retiring. Not this year. Not next. How we handle his cap hit of $23.2 million in 2018 probably tells you a lot. Do we leave it alone? Do we push it out with another extension?

    2019 is when it gets iffy for me. I think his ankle is deteriorating. He's had a lot of dings over the years and might start catching up to him. Just is what it is.

    That said, this team IS going to pick a QB this year. I would bet money with anyone on that. Not that I agree, but it's just what Colbert does.

    Tee Martin - 2000
    Brian St. Pierre - 2003
    Omar Jacobs - 2006
    Dennis Dixon - 2008
    Landry Jones - 2013

    It's time for the Colbert late round QB shuffle. I don't think they like Mettenberger much. I think they are settled that Jones is the backup. Don't know who it's going to be or when in this draft, but I think it's going to happen. In fact, I'm really worried it's with one of 3rd round picks.

  12. #92
    They are doing their due diligence on QBs. If they take one, they do. I'm not so sure grabbing a guy like Peterman in the middle rounds isn't your best choice. I would rather it be after the 3rd though. I just don't see the value there. I think it all depends on how the board unfolds.

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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by deljzc View Post
    That is something I try to tell all my friends about this process. I'm making a big board of talent, not for a specific team and I stress all the time that scheme fit means a LOT. Making a board for a specific team, with specific needs with a stable coaching staff is much easier than what I try to put together every year.

    And where these kids end up, the depth chart in front of them, what the coaching staff is asking them to do really does make a difference. Sure the cream will rise to the top. Work ethic, health and the ability to learn on the fly is so much more important in the pros than in college. Camp is so rushed and they just don't slow down for anyone.

    I agree with looking at prospects SPECIFICALLY for the Steelers. It is a bit harder now. In the 7-round mock-the-mock thread, I did a "what I think the Steelers will do" and I just constantly picked guys that looked similar to players on their roster.

    I do worry that the team will go overboard on a particular "trait" in this draft. They have done that in the past. One year it was speed. One year it was special teams. One year it was turnovers. I think this year it could me man coverage skills. They might "overdraft" that ability (although I think they have drastically underdrafted it in the past).

    That's my only concern.

    Agree. Please no more square peg prospects being forced into a round hole. I think we play a soft zone because our DB's lack speed and skills in general. But when the pass rush can't get this, this is a formula to give up a lot of points and yards.

    Build the D around Heyward Tuitt, Shazier, and Burns.

    The Steelers need edge guys to rush the passer ( OLB and 4 man DL wide 9 types ) and cover guys at DB and they should me MAN coverage guys, not ZONE coverage guys. If this means giving up a little physicality in the defensive backfield so be it.

    Needs this draft

    1 ) OLB Edge to pair with Dupree

    2A ) CB
    2B ) Slot CB.

    *** A Corner like Jackson or Awuzie would be fantastic as they can fill both needs. Round two should be cornerback for the Steelers ***

    3 ) A nickel linebacker, which Vince Williams is not. I like ILB Walker in round three, who has starting traits.

    4 ) A playmaking safety with ball skills and range.
    A 7th ring will come after Tomlin leaves.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    1-Yes, both McKinley and Lawson have medical concerns. I would imagine both would be called back to Indy for medical rechecks. Watt may as well, two knee injuries sidelined him his freshman and sophomore year. If he goes back for med recheck, it is a concern. Question is, if McKinley heals, is he still a concern. Have to weigh all that. Right now, both Lawson and Watt are ready to go, McKinley is recovering. That dings him. But, without the injury, we don't sniff him. Are you drafting for Day 1 or a career?

    2-For me, it is Budda Baker and Chidobe Awuzie. They are two guys I covet. Both can play the slot. Both support the run. Awuzie plays corner and could likely be a stud there. Baker plays FS, could be a stud there. Both help early in the slot. I don't know if we pull the trigger on either in R1 and might not see them make it to #62.

    3-Hard to say. Realistic? Two scenarios. If we see edge rushers go early and hard, I think we go OLB first, it would be:
    1-Watt (I think McKinley and Lawson would be gone).
    2-Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida.
    3a-Marcus Maye, S, Florida
    3B-Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson
    4-Donta Foreman, RB, Texas
    5-Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas

    What I would like:
    1-Budda Baker, S, Washington
    2-Derek Rivers, OLB, Youngstown State
    3-Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama
    3b-Howard Wilson, CB, Houston
    4-Rayshawn Jenkins, FS, Miami
    5-Donta Foreman, RB, Texas.

    I like a lot of these players ( in green ) . I used to like TE Jordan Leggett's upside, but I read he's a lazy type. There is this TE out of Drake and a Canadian based TE that would make for interesting 4th or 5th round picks. Jessie James improved his blocking, and with a Bryant back on the field could be left open more often.

    Lucky for us this year BPA matches our needs.
    A 7th ring will come after Tomlin leaves.

  15. #95
    Let me ask you this! Would you trade the Steelers 1st this year, next year, and our 2nd and 3rd this year for Myles Garrett (trade with Browns) if you look at the chart we would getting the better end of the trade point wise. But it would set us back several years in drafting.

  16. #96
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    I would not trade that much for Garrett. Garrett has never played more than 70% of the snaps in three seasons of college ball. He either gasses out too quickly or takes plays off to protect his health according to what I've read.

    While 8.5 sacks in 10 games is good, I think his solo tackle count (just 18 solo tackles in 10 games ) is a low. Yeah, he works out and looks the part, but I think he could be one of those college freaks who might not be physically or tough enough to be a star in the NFL...which is what the #1 overall pick should be.

    If the Browns were smart, they will trade down. They could get a 1st and 2nd and a 3rd plus something next year for trading, which would give them THREE first round picks in 2017, plus a lot of extra chances to fill holes in their roster, AND get an edge guy with one of those picks who might turn out as good or better.
    A 7th ring will come after Tomlin leaves.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    About the QBs.... and Ben...I get that everyone is sweating his retirement and how it could come soon. If Ben retires, the Steelers could ask for him to pay back any signing bonus that is allocated to years not played (Barry Sanders rule). So, this is what Ben could be losing if he retires:
    If he retires in 2018, he does not get a $5M roster bonus or $12M salary and could have to pay back up to $12.4 million in paid bonus money. So, not including lost future salary, he could lose $17M in new money and write a check for $12.4 million.
    If he retires in 2019, he has the same salary/roster bonus, so he foregoes $17M in new money and could have to pay back $6.2M in bonus.

    That is a lot of money to leave on the table and if you have to write a check for those amounts, that stings as well. He has a great financial incentive to continue to play.
    Precisely why I wait until next year to draft a hopeful franchise QB. That will give the guy 2 years to be the understudy if need be.
    Doing it this year is a bad idea IMO. Just not a good enough talent to do execute it.
    In next year's draft, move up and take a guy you think can be the franchise guy. I'm not saying into the top-10. But in the 10-20 range you should be able to get by without giving up a 19' 1st rounder.
    Hopefully, this year's draft will pretty much finish the defensive overhaul. Next year, you focus on getting your QB of the future and maybe an ILB/WR.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Agree. Please no more square peg prospects being forced into a round hole. I think we play a soft zone because our DB's lack speed and skills in general. But when the pass rush can't get this, this is a formula to give up a lot of points and yards.

    Build the D around Heyward Tuitt, Shazier, and Burns.

    The Steelers need edge guys to rush the passer ( OLB and 4 man DL wide 9 types ) and cover guys at DB and they should me MAN coverage guys, not ZONE coverage guys. If this means giving up a little physicality in the defensive backfield so be it.

    Needs this draft

    1 ) OLB Edge to pair with Dupree

    2A ) CB
    2B ) Slot CB.

    *** A Corner like Jackson or Awuzie would be fantastic as they can fill both needs. Round two should be cornerback for the Steelers ***

    3 ) A nickel linebacker, which Vince Williams is not. I like ILB Walker in round three, who has starting traits.

    4 ) A playmaking safety with ball skills and range.
    Here is what you have to understand, and it really isn't hard to fathom, but Dick LeBeau was a zone blitz guy. He still is in Tennessee. He always preached a triangle system where you had a deep safety, an inside LB, and a CB and those three would converge on the ball in their area. They worked off that premise. He last coached here in 2014. So, Butler takes over in 2015. Ike Taylor and Polamalu left after 2014. Butler had William Gay, Antwon Blake, Doran Grant, Brandon Boykin, lost Cortez Allen all but one game, and inked Ross Cockrell after final cuts. Those are your CBs. At safety, it was Mitchell, Allen, Robert Golden, Shamarko Thomas, and Ross Ventrone.

    That is what Butler inherits. You want to press with that group? In the draft that year, they take Bud Dupree in the first. Byron Jones was my guy, but I get Dupree and without him, we would need 2 OLBs right now. So, hard to argue that one. In the second, they take Golson, who is ideally a slot corner. I mean, they are looking to add corners. Who else? Quintin Rollins? Damarius Randall struggled last year for the Packers, still kept Rollins on the pine until his groin injury put him out. If Sam Shields had played, he is 4th on the chart. They just signed Davon House, that means they have Randall, House, and Gunter ahead of Rollins. The next three are D'Joun Smith, PJ Williams, and Alex Carter. Pats moved Richards to SS. Smith has dressed 5 games, 1 tackle. Williams is battling concussions. Alex Carter has dressed for one game. Where do you expect them to find bodies, much less players?

    Last year they drafted TWO cover guys in the first two rounds. I bet you really liked those selections too. Building a team, changing a philosophy, it doesn't happen overnight. They are moving in a new direction, exactly what that is, I don't know, but I'm starting to wonder if they are not moving to a 3-3-5 with an elephant safety.

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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    I also want to point this out about how this draft can unfold. One of the things I do this time of year is try to look at as many mock drafts as I can, even from idiots, because one idiot in a team's war room and they can affect a draft. This one came out yesterday......
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...nds-in-round-1

    Here is your bucket of players at each position:
    #30-Taco Charlton is the pick (not my choice). Tre'Davious White, Obi Melifonwu, Chidobe Awuzie, Zay Jones, Quincy Wilson, Budda Baker, Carl Lawson
    #62-Fabian Moreau, Tim Williams, Gerald Everett, Dawuane Smoot, Sidney Jones, Chris Godwin, Derek Rivers
    #94-Ryan Anderson, Ahkello Witherspoon, Carroll Phillips, Marcus Williams
    #105-Trey Hendrickson, Elijah Qualls, John Johnson, Marcus Maye, Wayne gallman, Samaje Perine, Rasul Douglas
    #135-Marlon Mack, Josh Carraway, Hunter Dimick, Anthony Walker, Howard Wilson, Jarron Jones, Vince Biegel, Delano Hill
    #173-Dalvin Tomlinson, Ryan Switzer, Brian Hill.

    Those are some pretty good pools of players.
    1. Carl Lawson OLB
    2. Fabian Moreau CB
    3. Marcus Williams S
    3c. Jorddan Leggett TE
    4. Marlon Mack RB
    5. Ryan Switzer WR (I would take him in the 4th. This guy is a winner and is the Patriot type of player that KILLS us)

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    I like a lot of these players ( in green ) . I used to like TE Jordan Leggett's upside, but I read he's a lazy type. There is this TE out of Drake and a Canadian based TE that would make for interesting 4th or 5th round picks. Jessie James improved his blocking, and with a Bryant back on the field could be left open more often.

    Lucky for us this year BPA matches our needs.
    You know why you read he is a lazy type, because he said he was. He said he likes to sleep and watch Netflix in his off-time. He said he was very lazy as a freshman. He enjoyed his off-time and was laid back and chill. But, Coach Swinney said "He's gone from Lazy Leggett to committed Leggett." The OC called him Leggett the leader. Coaches said in the spring of 2015, the lights came on. So, two years of putting in the work without being called lazy. You might frown on it, I call it growing up. And, it wasn't his coaches that said he was lazy, it was him. HE diagnosed it and changed it. And, watch the NC game. When Clemson needed it, Leggett was a guy they leaned on with Williams. Guys that rise in big moments, that says something about character. Some guys wilt, Leggett didn't.

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