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Ben and Mason's First Five Games Comparison

Punxsutawney

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Yeah, the running game isn't that good right now, the running game was putrid in 2003 before Ben got here, with Faneca, Hartings, and Bettis.
This is why I say people try to discredit what Ben did, it's always Ben had a RB, WR's etc. etc., but never one time have I heard that maybe Ben made them all better. Maybe the running game worked so well in 2004 because we had a legit threat to throw the ball downfield, or a guy that could get of the pocket and make something happen?

To be fair, Marvel Smith missed most of the 2003 season, and that was be a big reason why the running game got better during Ben's rookie season in 2004, but Ben's ability to attack defenses downfield was also a factor.

Ben was never as dependent on checking down to his RBs as Rudolph has been.

The Colts had Rudolph figured out by the second half on Sunday. On Samuel's fumble, he was basically gang raped by the Colts defense after he caught the ball.
 
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steelhurt

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I looked at their actual stats at NFL.com. The numbers from the article you posted include 1 game each that each guy played in, but did not start. For example, Rudolph’s numbers include his stats from the Seattle game. The folks writing this article are factually inaccurate.

Yeah well the two QB’s did play in two games aside from the first five mentioned. Ben stepped in for Maddox and threw a couple TD’s and Mason stepped in for Ben and threw a couple TD’s. They are talking about their first five starts which if you want to be technical you could deduct 2 TDS for each guy. The article is a bit misleading I will admit.




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Punxsutawney

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We all know the numbers aren't even worth looking at because of the ease to throw the ball in today's game compared to when Ben was a rookie. What is annoying about the comparisons is its devaluing how good Ben was as a rookie. W0.atch highlights from all of his games, the Steelers didn't have him throw the ball 30 times every week, but when he threw the ball he was making some terrific passes. You knew early on he was going to be a special quarterback.

Exactly.

Ben's role in the offense was limited in those first couple years as he was learning the offense and the NFL game, but he was a ******* surgeon in the context of Cowher/Whisenhunt were asking him to do.

I mean, those coaches, including Lebeau, went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl the next year with 1st/2nd year QB.

Obviously, Ben's greatness was a big part of that as well, but damn.
 

Steelworth

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Exactly.

Ben's role in the offense was limited in those first couple years as he was learning the offense and the NFL game, but he was a ******* surgeon in the context of Cowher/Whisenhunt were asking him to do.

I mean, those coaches, including Lebeau, went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl the next year with 1st/2nd year QB.

Obviously, Ben's greatness was a big part of that as well, but damn.

Ben's run in the 2005 playoffs leading up to the Super Bowl was the stuff of legend. I wish I could find that six shooter gif of him after his beautiful TD to Hines in Denver.
 

Vader

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Just another difference to put more wood on the fire. Ben was a 22 year old rookie while Rudolph is a 24 year old 2nd year player.

I've watched both and Ben's play and arm were just better. All his passer weren't within 5 feet of the LOS either. Rudolph may end up being a great QB. But right now he can't touch Ben. Ben was throwing darts in rookie year and especially in his 2nd year. They won the SB because of how well he played in the passing game to get them there.
 

madinsomniac

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Just another difference to put more wood on the fire. Ben was a 22 year old rookie while Rudolph is a 24 year old 2nd year player.

I've watched both and Ben's play and arm were just better. All his passer weren't within 5 feet of the LOS either. Rudolph may end up being a great QB. But right now he can't touch Ben. Ben was throwing darts in rookie year and especially in his 2nd year. They won the SB because of how well he played in the passing game to get them there.

True.. but ben is one of the greatest qbs the league has seen... we don’t need rudolph to be that... having said that there are tone of qbs that changed dramatically from year 1 to year five... hell go back and read Bwadys scouting reports or critiques after his first few seasons... or brees...
 

ianv2012

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Ben's run in the 2005 playoffs leading up to the Super Bowl was the stuff of legend. I wish I could find that six shooter gif of him after his beautiful TD to Hines in Denver.

That specific touchdown was actually to Cedric Wilson I believe
 

ianv2012

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Ben's run in the 2005 playoffs leading up to the Super Bowl was the stuff of legend. I wish I could find that six shooter gif of him after his beautiful TD to Hines in Denver.

That specific touchdown was actually to Cedric Wilson I believe

Nvm you were right it was ward, just went and watched the highlights
 

Litos

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ok here is my take on Rudolph: he has been rein in by the coaches. He was a gunslinger in college but now he is almost a rookie looking to not **** it up and he has been ordered Not To Lose the game, he doesn't have to win it... but he can't lose it either so he looks very limited. My opinion is he has been trained to look for the safety valve(s) if not one of his first reads is without a defender in a 6 feet radius to throw him the ball, and that message is now drilled in to his head until they open it up more for him.

And now they should open it up a little bit, the guy has a knack for throwing it deep as was seen in college film. Definitely he depends on timing as he doesn't have a rocket arm but hey, Brady made a living of timed passes, he just needs to get in synch with this Very young group of WRs to make it happen. But I'm glad he's learning to be a serviceable dink and dunk QB while he gets accustomed to the NFL level of competition.

I mean the guy has done enough to keep the games at hand and his stats prove it, even though it looks boring and exasperating, it works and he is very efficient on doing it and keeps the team afloat on a very tough season full of unfortunate events (that started with AB going bonkers at the end of last season) and then piling up injuries.
 

SanDiegoSteeler

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I mean the guy has done enough to keep the games at hand and his stats prove it, even though it looks boring and exasperating, it works and he is very efficient on doing it and keeps the team afloat on a very tough season full of unfortunate events (that started with AB going bonkers at the end of last season) and then piling up injuries.

Plus he has a dimple on his chin like that prick in NE...so there is that.
 

TDX27

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Look, the biggest things to consider in comparing the two is the running game (or lack thereof) and coaching. Ben had a great line and a great running game when he came in. That made things a helluva lot easier on him (or any new QB). Rudolph has ZERO running game to speak of. Our running game continues to get worse. This year we have none and teams know it. Our O line can not block for the running game at all. Not sure if they forgot how to block for the run or just never needed to with Ben back there. Therefore we have no play action and defenses can key on Rudolph and the passing game. We also only have JuJu as a serious threat in the passing game so it's easy to shut him down.

This could be solved with good coaching and play calling but again, we suck there. Where are the easy, quick plays, especially early to get your young QB settled and feeling good? I still can't think of any quick passes across the middle - at least not on a regular basis. The Cheats have used those passes to carve up D's for 2 decades now and we don't seem to run them. Where are the plays to our TE's? Oh, ya, we keep them in on almost every play to block so you know when they leave the line, chances are the ball is coming their way.

Now, I don't think Rudolph is the next Ben. Is he a bust? It's way too early to tell. Can he be a starting caliber QB in this league? The jury is definitely still out.
 

Coach

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I checked this out. Your stats are incorrect, because it appears to include games that neither player started.

Ben 5-0
84/117
7TD 4 INT
957 Yards

Mason 3-2
97/146
8TD 4 INT
976 Yards

The only real difference is obviously the record, and the fact that Rudolph has 13 more completions on 29 more attempts.

Oh there's more difference than that. Ben was a rookie from a small school Rudolph a 2nd year player
 

slashsteel

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I don't mind seeing statistical comparisons. Much too early for a stamp to be put on the envelope. But I will look as he continues to gain experience.
 

steelhurt

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So we have no QB coach on the team unless they also consider Fichtner in that capacity as well. I don't think Fichtner is the right guy to be this team's OC moving forward especially if he's going to be developing Mason. He essentially does little in regards with Ben at this juncture in Ben's career but he can really screw up Mason's development. If Coach Cool Shades remains which I'm sure he will, I hope they at the very least bring in a capable OC/QB Coach to in addition to his gameplanning responsibilities with Ben, can also help in Mason's development.
 

Steeler Pride

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For the better or worse...

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mason Rudolph has recorded a passer rating of at least 81.4 in each of his 6 appearances, tied for the 4th-longest active mark in the NFL.<br><br>He's the 5th QB since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger to have 81.4 passer rating & throw a TD in each of his 1st five career starts. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Steelers?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Steelers</a> <a href="https://t.co/oPd4fUWZLC">pic.twitter.com/oPd4fUWZLC</a></p>— Chase Williams WPXI (@chasepwilliams) <a href="https://twitter.com/chasepwilliams/status/1191792782144397314?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

A HS kid can throw check downs and 2 yard passes all day long and have a high completion % and QBR.
 

Slash#10

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Ben drafted 11 overall and Rudolph drafted 76 overall. Given the similarities in stats through their first handful of starts, I think its something to appreciate what we're getting out of Rudolph. He is less talented and skilled than Ben, while having less talent at TE, WR, RB, and coaching positions.
 

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I fully understand why Bradshaw hates Pittsburgh. I'm so sick of this fanbase constantly minimizing the accomplishments of our greats in order to prop up current players/coaches. Ben's got 2 rings and a gold jacket in his future; let's see Mason make it to the big game at least once before we annoint him.
 

Coryea

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Ben drafted 11 overall and Rudolph drafted 76 overall. Given the similarities in stats through their first handful of starts, I think its something to appreciate what we're getting out of Rudolph. He is less talented and skilled than Ben, while having less talent at TE, WR, RB, and coaching positions.

LOL, you do realize the game has changed a ton since then correct? Ben's RB in 2005 was an undrafted RB, he had Ward, a college QB and Cedric Wilson, and a rookie TE.
2005 only two QB's finished with a rating of 100 or higher, there are 11 right now and two guys sitting at 99.7.
 

Coryea

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I fully understand why Bradshaw hates Pittsburgh. I'm so sick of this fanbase constantly minimizing the accomplishments of our greats in order to prop up current players/coaches. Ben's got 2 rings and a gold jacket in his future; let's see Mason make it to the big game at least once before we annoint him.

And it's not just the fan base, the idiots on talk shows are the same, if not worse. ******* idiot Chris Mueller on the fan said Ben was more to blame for that Wild cat INT by Samuels in the Rats game, than Tomlin was.
 

ianv2012

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I fully understand why Bradshaw hates Pittsburgh. I'm so sick of this fanbase constantly minimizing the accomplishments of our greats in order to prop up current players/coaches. Ben's got 2 rings and a gold jacket in his future; let's see Mason make it to the big game at least once before we annoint him.

I've seen no one anointing him, in fact I've seen harsh criticism for a guy who has only started 5 games
 

GMC

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I've seen no one anointing him, in fact I've seen harsh criticism for a guy who has only started 5 games

Then you're not reading. I haven't seen anything that I'd construe as harsh criticism, but there are a few in this very thread claiming the team is better with Mason at QB. That his stats are the same or better so he must be at least as good and Ben somehow benefitted from superior talent and Mason is doing more with less. Funn there's no mention of how Ben has elevated the play of those around him. Still waiting to see any offensive talent that was as good or better without Ben under center (excluding Bettis who was at the end of his career). Comparing stat lines is completely ridiculous and irrelevant, but many are embracing the hyperbole. Ben is/was great. Hopefully Mason developes into the next franchise, but he's got a long way to go and has yet to show any real spark. I can sit here and say that Mason has looked good; many can't let it go at that.
 

ianv2012

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Then you're not reading. I haven't seen anything that I'd construe as harsh criticism, but there are a few in this very thread claiming the team is better with Mason at QB. That his stats are the same or better so he must be at least as good and Ben somehow benefitted from superior talent and Mason is doing more with less. Funn there's no mention of how Ben has elevated the play of those around him. Still waiting to see any offensive talent that was as good or better without Ben under center (excluding Bettis who was at the end of his career). Comparing stat lines is completely ridiculous and irrelevant, but many are embracing the hyperbole. Ben is/was great. Hopefully Mason developes into the next franchise, but he's got a long way to go and has yet to show any real spark. I can sit here and say that Mason has looked good; many can't let it go at that.

Again that's a disingenuous conclusion, the comparison was with Ben at the beginning of his career, no one has seriously stated this team is better with Mason than a veteran Ben, it was a comparison of their early careers because that's all we have to go on with Rudolph considering he's only 5 games in, while Ben's career and accomplishments are well known. Your statements indicate a slide between the two in the comparison (early Ben and veteran Ben). I think sometimes people on this board misconstrue positivity toward Mason as meaning a negative view of Ben and that is not necessarily a logical conclusion unless someone explicitly stated that, which I've yet to see
 
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Litos

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I fully understand why Bradshaw hates Pittsburgh. I'm so sick of this fanbase constantly minimizing the accomplishments of our greats in order to prop up current players/coaches. Ben's got 2 rings and a gold jacket in his future; let's see Mason make it to the big game at least once before we annoint him.
Please quote those posts because I don't see them

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