Butler Admits Tomlin Has Been Calling D Signals Since LeBeau’s Time

[GILBERT]

You'd think this would be all over the nfl shows this morning...and you'd be wrong.

LOL. You will never hear this in the main stream media.

 

[wig]

It's true, Alualu and Haden had moved on from their perspective teams. But that doesn't change the fact that they were top-tier athletes and players who, for one reason or another didn't pan out. (Haden WAS a top corner, he had just begun to decline to a point where the Browns felt his contract was greater than his remaining potential. The Steelers have done it many times as well. Woodson, Chad Green come to mind at the top of my head.)

Still, even though those guys were no longer with their original team, when you put together an entire starting lineup of guys who are basically the most physically gifted guys of their age and position group, you're GOING to see some solid play across the board.

Your argument is basically that Alualu and Haden were **** and came on the garbage heap because they weren't any good. I respectfully disagree. If all 6th rounders were equivalent to 1st rounders, then your point may be more defensible. But, 1st rounders and 6th rounders are not built equally.

Your secondary argument is that Tomlin had the wherewithal to acquire and put all those 1st rounders together. Ok. But that's not coaching. That's just Dan Snydering a super-team and hoping it pans out so it covers your inability to actually build and coach a defense.

 

[Djfan]

You'd think this would be all over the nfl shows this morning...and you'd be wrong.

Might be racist

 

[Steeltime]

Defense gives up 171 points in last four playoff games.

New offensive coordinator. Another offensive coordinator. New defensive coordinator. Another defensive coordinator. Third defensive coordinator on the way.

Tomlin's fingerprints on these failures have been overtly obvious for years.

 

[steelhurt]

I will add another fact here that I find interesting. So Tomlin started out in the NFL as a defensive backs coach and was instrumental in the development and employment of the now outdated Tampa 2 defense. Then was a defensive coordinator in Minnesota for one season. Yet the coach has yet to draft or develop a good CB or safety. We had to go to FA to sign CB Steven Nelson who played good his first year here then tailed off. FA again to sign Joe Haden. Then a trade to acquire Safety Minkah Fitzpatrick but why is it he can't draft or develop a player in the secondary?

 

[Atlsteelers]

Not sure why this is and has been an issue? It’s not uncommon for head coaches to call plays according to their strengths. Reid and Payton come to mind. I just think it ridiculous that it’s a story and honestly surprised Butler appears to be making it into one. If he didn’t like it then find another job. Especially knowing that Tomlin started calling plays when Lebeau was here. He had to know what he was getting into.

 

[Coryea]

Not sure why this is and has been an issue? It’s not uncommon for head coaches to call plays according to their strengths. Reid and Payton come to mind. I just think it ridiculous that it’s a story and honestly surprised Butler appears to be making it into one. If he didn’t like it then find another job. Especially knowing that Tomlin started calling plays when Lebeau was here. He had to know what he was getting into.

The fact a head coach is calling the plays is not the issue, the issue is we have given up more points in the last 4 playoff games than any team in NFL history, and Tomlin never holds himself accountable, always blame the execution.
Reid and Payton have won super bowls calling their side of the ball.
Butler said Tomlin got involved in the play calling Lebeaus last two season here, so that would be 2013 and 2014, meaning LeBeau was calling plays prior to that, the defenses rankings while LeBeau was calling the defense, 2012-1, 2011-1, 2010-5, 2009-2, 2008-1, 2007-1. As soon as Tomlin took over, the D ranked 13, then 18, then 21st

 

[Steeler Pride]

As soon as Tomlin took over, the D ranked 13, then 18, then 21st

Right on par for what his defense was is Minnesota.

 

[str8liner]

Why would you want to he a DC in name only? Sad.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be blamed for calls someone else was making. And that has happened a LOT going back to the Lebeau years.

And as far as Tomlin calling the plays he must have some type of super secret signaling for calls because you never see him doing anything on the sidelines. I see other coaches on other teams making calls with a pile of papers in hand, talking on the headset etc.

Not Mikey T.

 

[Sarge]

Not sure why this is and has been an issue? It’s not uncommon for head coaches to call plays according to their strengths. Reid and Payton come to mind. I just think it ridiculous that it’s a story and honestly surprised Butler appears to be making it into one. If he didn’t like it then find another job. Especially knowing that Tomlin started calling plays when Lebeau was here. He had to know what he was getting into.

I think Butler wants to continue to work in the NFL. He wants to make sure people know who was calling the defenses when they gave up record numbers of points in the playoffs and record numbers of yards against the run. He's trying to save his own career.

 

[MTC]

Not sure why this is and has been an issue? It’s not uncommon for head coaches to call plays according to their strengths. Reid and Payton come to mind. I just think it ridiculous that it’s a story and honestly surprised Butler appears to be making it into one. If he didn’t like it then find another job. Especially knowing that Tomlin started calling plays when Lebeau was here. He had to know what he was getting into.

It’s going to turn into a “he said, she said…well more like he” but you get the gist

 

[TDX27]

Butler also admitted on the Fan that he has no idea what is going on with Tuitt. Based on his cap hit and the fact he has missed over half of the past 3 years, I see no way they keep him. Save the $9 million and use it elsewhere.

 

[Atlsteelers]

I think Butler wants to continue to work in the NFL. He wants to make sure people know who was calling the defenses when they gave up record numbers of points in the playoffs and record numbers of yards against the run. He's trying to save his own career.

***** move then if you ask me.

 

[slashsteel]

***** move then if you ask me.

I am glad it is out in the open. No more guessing we know now where to point the finger.

 

[JMM]

Injuries on D was brought up in the discussion...Yes we've had more than our share on both sides of the ball but where top coaches somehow find suitable replacements in the garbage heap and coach them up to being worthwhile, we struggle mightily with that.

I have no idea how the good ones do it but I'm guessing they make the schemes match the personnel rather than vice versa. That's one huge takeaway I remember from when Cowher took over the reins.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Yeah I didn't like the secret nature of who was doing the play calling. Funny how quick that came out upon retirement.

I still wonder why Tomlin went to that ridiculous and oversized face cover late in the year. Did he strip Butler 100% at the end and wear the cover to give him cover calling the plays?

It's still a mystery to me though because for years we rarely saw him saying anything with the headset on.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Look, I'm not happy with the direction of the team anymore than anyone else on the board, but it seems this board likes to conveniently ignore facts to prove a point. The consensus is that Tomlin sucks at calling the D, and we are no longer a dominant defensive team. Well, if you go just by this past year, sure... but if you ignore the amount of injuries we had on the DL, and at ILB, and at OLB, and at CB, then sure it's easy to blame Tomlin and how he calls the D.

But if you do a bit of research, it's not that clear cut.

If you say he took over the playcalling on D in 13-14, then yeah, we had a middling defense for the next four years, but we also had a top ten offense in 5 of the next 6 years. You tend to give up some yards when you are up double digits, and in the prime of the killer B era, that's exactly what we did. Teams played from behind a lot and got a lot of garbage yards.

But then things started to change, the offense was less dominant, but the D started to come around, and from 2017 to 2020 we had a top 10 D in yardage and only finished outside the top 10 in scoring D one of those years. We've allowed 20 pts or less in 5 of the last 9 seasons, and in that 17-20 stretch, the one year we finished outside of the top 10 in scoring D, we allowed 22.5 pts, and averaged 27 pts on offense. It's not like our D has been weak.

The loss of Tuitt and Alualu were HUGE this year, like it can't even be put into words how much they were missed. And then you add in the injuries to Watt, Highsmith, Bush, Haden, and the games missed with Covid... it was a lot to overcome, especially with the inept offense we had that consistently put the D back on the field far too many times.

The number one scoring D in the league just gave up the same number of points we did against the very same team... As much as I want Tomlin gone, it's not because he's calling the D... it's what he's allowed to happen on the other side of the ball

We ain’t won a playoff game in forever! And not going to win a playoff game in forever! Whad you think tomlin is going to all of a sudden get a clue? That dungy defense was a good in its day, it was chuck Noll‘s scheme, dungy learned in Pittsburgh, but its played!!! The single wing offense, born right in Pittsburgh, was great in it’s day, but everything has a life, and tomlin’s defense is dead, the good qbs are taking a flame thrower to our secondary, and have been for over a decade! its only going get worse without butler. period. The only question is this: do the Rooney’s have the stones to fire Tomlin. That’s the only question cuz, new qbs, new olm, new this new that is just rearranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic! cuz under captain Mike…. We going down!!!

 

[SteelerFan448]

The fact a head coach is calling the plays is not the issue, the issue is we have given up more points in the last 4 playoff games than any team in NFL history, and Tomlin never holds himself accountable, always blame the execution.
Reid and Payton have won super bowls calling their side of the ball.
Butler said Tomlin got involved in the play calling Lebeaus last two season here, so that would be 2013 and 2014, meaning LeBeau was calling plays prior to that, the defenses rankings while LeBeau was calling the defense, 2012-1, 2011-1, 2010-5, 2009-2, 2008-1, 2007-1. As soon as Tomlin took over, the D ranked 13, then 18, then 21st

Between that and it not being well known Tomlin is calling the plays is weird. You don't see any of the offensive-minded head coaches not being up front with play calling. Speaking of those, I still can't believe Matt Canada is employed. The final four include: Reid, McVay, Shanahan, and Taylor (a former McVay assistant). The first three are recognized as three of the best offensive coaches in the NFL. Add on Arians, LaFleur, and Daboll and you have three more respected offensive minds. Matt Canada isn't in the same universe as these guys.

With Tomlin and the defense, they have a good foundation, but it isn't without its risks. Those risks tend to result in big plays and the lack of scheme discipline, a failure against the run. I'd say that's by design, though, because it's been a problem for 7-8 years now. Bringing in Austin helped put an emphasis on turnovers and some improvement with the secondary. Bring in another bright defensive mind and maybe we get some adjustments to this defense to help it succeed with more than just star power.

 

[insaniti]

It's true, Alualu and Haden had moved on from their perspective teams. But that doesn't change the fact that they were top-tier athletes and players who, for one reason or another didn't pan out. (Haden WAS a top corner, he had just begun to decline to a point where the Browns felt his contract was greater than his remaining potential. The Steelers have done it many times as well. Woodson, Chad Green come to mind at the top of my head.)

Still, even though those guys were no longer with their original team, when you put together an entire starting lineup of guys who are basically the most physically gifted guys of their age and position group, you're GOING to see some solid play across the board.

Your argument is basically that Alualu and Haden were **** and came on the garbage heap because they weren't any good. I respectfully disagree. If all 6th rounders were equivalent to 1st rounders, then your point may be more defensible. But, 1st rounders and 6th rounders are not built equally.

Your secondary argument is that Tomlin had the wherewithal to acquire and put all those 1st rounders together. Ok. But that's not coaching. That's just Dan Snydering a super-team and hoping it pans out so it covers your inability to actually build and coach a defense.

I never said Alualu and Haden were ****. But I also know better than to say the defense was good only because of the all first rounders.

I mean Edmunds was a first rounder, so was Jarvis Jones, and ziggy hood. Antonio brown was a 6th rounder, think he goes on the 6th in a redraft. Where someone was drafted doesn't guarantee ANYTHING. So the argument that the D was ONLY improving because it was full of first round draft picks is just a ****** argument.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So this explains how in 2013/14 Lebeaus playcalling changed so dramatically… makes sense… went from a top d to a middling meh D

I was gonna say, his last two years DLB's defense was getting picked apart. I thought it was because other teams followed the Pats******* lead and figured out how to beat it but maybe not and it was something else.

 

[Sarge]

***** move then if you ask me.

Why would he, or anyone for that matter, allow themselves to take the blame for something they had no hand in? The ***** move is Tomlin constantly scapegoating his coordinators for the dumb **** he himself does.

 

[madinsomniac]

Why would he, or anyone for that matter, allow themselves to take the blame for something they had no hand in? The ***** move is Tomlin constantly scapegoating his coordinators for the dumb **** he himself does.

the weird part is most coaches that assume playcalling duties are really upfront about it because they want credit... its just weird how all of this was just rumors for soooo long

 

[Steeler Pride]

the weird part is most coaches that assume playcalling duties are really upfront about it because they want credit... its just weird how all of this was just rumors for soooo long

It really wasn't a rumor, all you had to do was look at the formations and the design of the defense. It radically changed in LeBeau's last 2 years here. The 2DL set that we like to use was used by Dungy and Tomlin in Tampa Bay. The evidence is all there, yet people chose not to question it.

 

[madinsomniac]

It really wasn't a rumor, all you had to do was look at the formations and the design of the defense. It radically changed in LeBeau's last 2 years here. The 2DL set that we like to use was used by Dungy and Tomlin in Tampa Bay. The evidence is all there, yet people chose not to question it.

well no, thats just it... we all suspected it, and rumors from the players claimed it, but there was never an official statement saying it happened... even now... have the steelers or Tomlin publicly commented on it?

 

[madinsomniac]

I kind of think its simular to when Larry Zierlien's son commented on how the scheme was from Arians, not his dad, and they didnt have the horses to run it.... and crickets from the steelers....


makes you wonder about all the assistants that jumped ship over the last decade and a half...