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Fire Tomlin

slashsteel

Well-known member
If Tomlin bring us a SB in the next year or 2 all might change as it did for Cowher. I simply don't see us winning another SB in the foreseeable future with Tomlin at the helm. As I posted before. Sometimes Coaches run their course with a team. Sometimes it is best if Coach and team go their different ways. Such as Andy Reid and the Eagles. Worked out well for both of them.
I strongly feel that time is now. Groundhog day will not change on its own.
 

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SteelerSask2

Well-known member
Beyond my comprehension why they renewed his contract. It was a perfect time to move on. Make a clean cut with Ben and Tomlin this offseason and just go another direction. Didn't have to be drama. And if somehow they pulled off a better season it's not like he was really going anywhere if they wanted him. Just unbelievable. This isn't about being the same race. But he is becoming Marvin Lewis. Where the vast majoritycan look at it and say it's well past time. It's been 12 years since the SB. They have had two teams that looked legit in the last 7 or 8 years. One lost to Blake Bortles and the other got eviscerated by the Pats. For God's sake enough already.
 

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Tim Steelersfan

Wee Widdle Member
Thanks to SoOpid for this link. Argue with any of it.

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To some, the mere notion of moving on from Mike Tomlin seems ludicrous.

I’ll tell you what’s ludicrous ...

• Giving up 28 first-quarter points to the Cleveland Browns in a playoff game.

• Giving up 533 yards to the Los Angeles Chargers, then admitting you failed to make any meaningful adjustments.

• Giving up 40-plus points in back-to-back games for the first time since 1989.

• Going to overtime against Geno Smith.

• Nearly blowing a big fourth-quarter lead to the Chicago Bears.

• Allowing 229 rushing yards to the Detroit Lions, then admitting you were out-coached by Dan “Kneecap” Campbell, who had never called plays until that day.

Failing to win a playoff game for five straight years, the longest streak since Bill Austin coached here. That’s what will happen if these Steelers do not win a playoff game — and if you think they will, I have some beach-front property in Wilmerding I’d love to show you. By the way, that streak included the early Chuck Noll era, when the Steelers were the most pathetic franchise in football — though probably not bad enough to tie the 2021 Detroit Lions.

• Tying the 2021 Detroit Lions.

• Refusing to bench Devin Bush even though everybody knew he was playing terrible football coming in — and he continued to do so. Oh, did he ever, to the point where ex-Steelers nose tackle Chris Hoke said this on the KDKA postgame show: “It seems to me he’s playing with no heart out there. There’s no effort. Really, right now, you’re playing with 10 guys on the Steelers defense.”

• Losing three consecutive games to the Bengals for the first time in 31 years.

• Losing to the Bengals, 41-10, on Sunday in maybe the most humiliating regular season game of the Tomlin era.

I mean, seriously, how bad does this have to get before Tomlin’s seat at least becomes lukewarm, or even room temperature?

Why should it just be assumed that he is coach for life?

I’m not saying he should be fired even if his team collapses for the fourth consecutive season, or if it merely misses the playoffs. But why in the world did Art Rooney II give him an unusually long, three-year contract extension last spring after the third straight collapse?

Tomlin is a good coach. He won his 150th game earlier this month, becoming the fourth-fastest to that mark, faster than anybody not named Don Shula, George Halas or Curly Lambeau. That’s elite company. But sometimes a good coach no longer is the right coach for a particular team. Look at Mike McCarthy. His resume is similar to that of Tomlin, whom McCarthy beat in a Super Bowl.

Yet the Packers fired McCarthy and are better off for it. They’ve been to consecutive NFC title games. McCarthy also appears to be doing OK in his new surroundings (recent results notwithstanding).

Tomlin’s quarterback is fading. His running game, despite all the promises to fix it, still stinks. The Matt Canada offense is hard to watch, featuring all those short-of-the-stick passes.

The big offseason experiment of moving Chuks Okorafor to left tackle blew up in Tomlin's face, and now that job has gone to rookie Dan Moore, who is a disaster in pass protection. He should have been credited with a quarterback hit on Ben Roethlisberger’s second interception he got driven into the quarterback’s arm so fast.

The defense is worse. And make no mistake, that is Tomlin's defense, not Keith Butler's. It’s an abomination, beginning with Bush, whom Tomlin said would be the “quarterback” of the unit when they moved up to draft him 10th overall. How Tomlin can keep starting him and look his players in the eye is beyond me.

Bush might be the least-physical inside linebacker in Steelers history. Not that Joe Schobert will remind anyone of Mike Singletary. He gets knocked out of the TV screen more than "Survivor" contestants. But at least he makes a play once in a while.

“We can’t keep playing like this,” T.J. Watt said. “It’s absolutely embarrassing.”

So was the false bravado at the end. Tomlin kept Watt, Cam Heyward and Roethlisberger on the field in a 41-3 game. Give me a break. The Bengals took out their players. What’s the point of keeping yours in? To prove how tough you are?

Of course the players wanted to stay in. That’s not the point.

“(It shows) a team’s character,” Roethlisberger said, “their will, their heart.”

Please. The time to show all that was three hours earlier, before the Bengals raced to a 31-3 halftime lead. Before Joe Mixon smashed the ball down your throats on 20 first-half carries.

The Bengals have become what the Steelers want to be.

If anything, the Steelers gave more credence to the Tyler Boyd theory that they quit the last time the two teams played. The worst part of the rematch was that Tomlin emphasized the importance of it all week long, basically labeling it a playoff game.

It looked like one, actually — the one from last January at Heinz Field.

Only worse.
 

MT~Forged

Well-known member
I got your point and fully agree. Just Tomlin isn't even aquiring players to fit his sceme. Not sure of our scouting department but we seem to have slipped in talent evaluation and draft pick success.




Salute the nation
HC’s do not sit back on their asses and wait for players chosen FOR THEM to arrive. He is instrumental in the selections made, he just does not seem able to evaluate and/or develop young players.
 

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Litos

Well-known member
If the rooneys don't make a move is because they don't care about the product on the field. And if even the owner doesn't care, why should I?

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been cooking for a whole decade and wasted the best years of a HoF QB and a lot of good players too
 

Drink IRON City

Contributor whining about a tag
Tolin is here to stay at least the rest of this season and more than likely next as well. Off-season promises will be made only to broken next season.

Unfortunately it's a down year for QB draft but if we continue on our projection we may end up high enough to draft a possible replacement for Ben. That still leaves us with a 1 yr transition for new kid tobe ready or sink or swim with him.

We have many needs and few draft picks requiring "hits" on all but that is not unusual for this regime only thing is we are paying high draft capital for overpriced picks.

I truly wonder what lower ownership is saying to Art duece at this time.





Salute the nation
 

str8liner

Well-known member
If Tomlin bring us a SB in the next year or 2 all might change as it did for Cowher. I simply don't see us winning another SB in the foreseeable future with Tomlin at the helm. As I posted before.

Superbowl the next year or two? This isn't even close to what Cowher had when he won his at the end. They had a running game with the Bus, and one hell of a shutdown defense. The Superbowl ship sailed about the time AB threw the sofa out the window, or was it the live feed in the locker room the last time they won a playoff game? Or maybe it was when Le'Veon started his rap career.
 

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diver

Well-known member
If the rooneys don't make a move is because they don't care about the product on the field. And if even the owner doesn't care, why should I?

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been cooking for a whole decade and wasted the best years of a HoF QB and a lot of good players too
I disagree with this. We get so pissed at the results we forget to realize these are human beings you are dealing with. They know each other's families, for crying out loud. It's just not that easy, even though it needs to be done. I think that has a hell of a lot more to do with not firing Tomlin then the fact that the Rooney's don't care.
 

Black & Gold Bleeder

Well-known member
Well they were able to have this conversation with Bruce Arians after winning a SB. They were also able to have this conversation with Todd Haley , who's father was with the steelers. If the rooney rule bothers them so much... IDC.. go hire another black man. Whomever they would hire would be a step up. The bar is pretty low.
 

SteelerinMD

Unleashing Mediocrity Since 1/22/07
On Sirius XM NFL network, Rich Gannon had it 100% right. He said the difference between the ravens and the Steelers is coaching. Both teams have had injuries on both sides of the ball. However, whoever plays for the ravens on offense and defense still is put in a place to succeed. The word culture was used multiple times. The ravens teach, Coach, and practice a culture of violence and physicality. They play physical on both sides of the ball, and they plug and play which ever player is needed, next man up truly applies. Injuries have decimated the ravens as much as the Steelers if not more. As Rich said, the difference is coaching up your players, having a culture and a scheme. It sucks that the Steelers or a topic of conversation in a negative light every week
 

Steeler Pride

Bourbon Connoisseur
On Sirius XM NFL network, Rich Gannon had it 100% right. He said the difference between the ravens and the Steelers is coaching. Both teams have had injuries on both sides of the ball. However, whoever plays for the ravens on offense and defense still is put in a place to succeed. The word culture was used multiple times. The ravens teach, Coach, and practice a culture of violence and physicality. They play physical on both sides of the ball, and they plug and play which ever player is needed, next man up truly applies. Injuries have decimated the ravens as much as the Steelers if not more. As Rich said, the difference is coaching up your players, having a culture and a scheme. It sucks that the Steelers or a topic of conversation in a negative light every week
I can't think of hardly any players (outside of maybe WR) that Tomlin and his coaching staff's over the years have developed. If we draft a great player, then we get great results. I can't think of hardly any players that we found ways to make into better players than what they were before they got to the Steelers.
 

SteelerFan448

Well-known member
I can't think of hardly any players (outside of maybe WR) that Tomlin and his coaching staff's over the years have developed. If we draft a great player, then we get great results. I can't think of hardly any players that we found ways to make into better players than what they were before they got to the Steelers.

What is the criteria for development?
  • Lawrence Timmons was draft as an OLB and they developed him into a good ILB.
  • LaMarr Woodley was a 2nd rounder who was one of the top pass rushers in the NFL before he wasn't.
  • William Gay developed into a solid nickel corner. Granted he was misused in his matchups in his first stint with the Steelers.
  • Emmanuel Sanders became a good receiver.
  • Antonio Brown, obviously.
  • Cam Heyward was drafted to be a typical run stopping DE who played his role in the Steelers 3-4 defense. They transformed how they used their DEs and he became an excellent pass rusher and one of the top defenders in the entire league.
  • Cortez Allen showed flashes of talent until he signed his big contract.
  • Kelvin Beachum became a long-term starter at LT.
  • Le'Veon Bell went from a slow, non-dynamic threat at running back to the most talented in the league when he was with the Steelers.
  • Vince Williams developed into a quality ILB.
  • Bud Dupree was a raw prospect coming in and became a quality OLB in the Steelers defense. He probably won't replicate that production in any other system.
  • Jesse James developed into a solid No. 2 tight end.
  • Anthony Chickillo made the roster and stuck around way longer than I thought he would.
  • Javon Hargrave developed into a top interior pass rusher, we just didn't have the money to keep him.
  • Cameron Sutton developed from a role player to a starting CB.
  • Diontae Johnson is one of the best route runners in the league and fixed his drop problems.
  • Alex Highsmith is well on track to becoming an above average OLB. The skills are there, just needs to finish.
  • Kevin Dotson could potentially develop into a quality LG. He took a step back in year 2.
 

SteelerInLebanon

Well-known member
What is the criteria for development?
  • Lawrence Timmons was draft as an OLB and they developed him into a good ILB.
  • LaMarr Woodley was a 2nd rounder who was one of the top pass rushers in the NFL before he wasn't.
  • William Gay developed into a solid nickel corner. Granted he was misused in his matchups in his first stint with the Steelers.
  • Emmanuel Sanders became a good receiver.
  • Antonio Brown, obviously.
  • Cam Heyward was drafted to be a typical run stopping DE who played his role in the Steelers 3-4 defense. They transformed how they used their DEs and he became an excellent pass rusher and one of the top defenders in the entire league.
  • Cortez Allen showed flashes of talent until he signed his big contract.
  • Kelvin Beachum became a long-term starter at LT.
  • Le'Veon Bell went from a slow, non-dynamic threat at running back to the most talented in the league when he was with the Steelers.
  • Vince Williams developed into a quality ILB.
  • Bud Dupree was a raw prospect coming in and became a quality OLB in the Steelers defense. He probably won't replicate that production in any other system.
  • Jesse James developed into a solid No. 2 tight end.
  • Anthony Chickillo made the roster and stuck around way longer than I thought he would.
  • Javon Hargrave developed into a top interior pass rusher, we just didn't have the money to keep him.
  • Cameron Sutton developed from a role player to a starting CB.
  • Diontae Johnson is one of the best route runners in the league and fixed his drop problems.
  • Alex Highsmith is well on track to becoming an above average OLB. The skills are there, just needs to finish.
  • Kevin Dotson could potentially develop into a quality LG. He took a step back in year 2.
Don't bring logic to a pity party.

I have said it many times and it is very obvious in a few of the posts seen here and I paraphrase: This team makes me not want to watch, spend, go to games anymore. Jesus it infuriates me. Sure we all want more wins and Super Bowls, Maybe coaches need changed or maybe players or both. But after all the good football we have seen and being in contention every year even if infuriating in the end has really spoiled this fan base and made it shortsighted on what it is like to be the fan of a large number of other teams. Even without recent playoff wins and Super Bowls we are tied for being the most successful franchise in the league by the most important measure and the best or close to it in almost every other measure yet people are willing to jump ship and act like fair weather fans. I am not talking so much about the bitching about Coach x or player x so much as the "I am not watching anymore or as much" bullshit. That is Cincinnati fair weather fan BS.

If our almost unrivaled success isn't enough to keep you as a fan even through "lean" times then go find another team until they have a bad season. Maybe we have left a few on the table but holy shit people we are still spoiled by what we have as a franchise. Sometimes you have to suck for at least a season to get what you need to not suck again.
 

jiminoh

Simple Idiot
Another player talking about how the Steelers practice. First it was Schobert, now it's Fitzpatrick

If this is true, it's definitely a problem. And yes, I grew up begging my parents to get me a Steeler toboggan at age 9 for Christmas - so don't go there about me being a hater. (Not SteelerFan448 to make it clear) It's becoming obvious we have a "Houston" situation.


upload images online
 

jiminoh

Simple Idiot
My point is that sure, Tomlin is a big problem. But the players, outside of a few, are immature babies.
They come to our historical franchise and think, "I've made it...I'm super special!" They actually are babies for the most part if you think about it....They're young kids - with a lot of money. It takes a leader or parent or neighbor or village to tell them this behavior isn't tolerated. Get off of TikTok.
 

Litos

Well-known member
Don't bring logic to a pity party.

I have said it many times and it is very obvious in a few of the posts seen here and I paraphrase: This team makes me not want to watch, spend, go to games anymore. Jesus it infuriates me. Sure we all want more wins and Super Bowls, Maybe coaches need changed or maybe players or both. But after all the good football we have seen and being in contention every year even if infuriating in the end has really spoiled this fan base and made it shortsighted on what it is like to be the fan of a large number of other teams. Even without recent playoff wins and Super Bowls we are tied for being the most successful franchise in the league by the most important measure and the best or close to it in almost every other measure yet people are willing to jump ship and act like fair weather fans. I am not talking so much about the bitching about Coach x or player x so much as the "I am not watching anymore or as much" bullshit. That is Cincinnati fair weather fan BS.

If our almost unrivaled success isn't enough to keep you as a fan even through "lean" times then go find another team until they have a bad season. Maybe we have left a few on the table but holy shit people we are still spoiled by what we have as a franchise. Sometimes you have to suck for at least a season to get what you need to not suck again.

I respectfully disagree, you are talking about the Steelers historical success like it's going to continue happening just because.

What I said in my previous post is that if the rooneys don't see that this boat is going in the wrong direction then they don't care about our beloved franchise. And if so, why should we?

Since the SB loss in 2010 the team has 5 playoffs wins, with only one of those
being a divisional game. Let's digest that, in a whole decade with a HoF QB the most we have achieved is a conference loss. Most of those years the team has been loaded with talent, 2019 being the one where Ben got injured and all went to the shitter, yet they keep failing in the big stage even against lesser talented teams and that's all on coaching no matter how anyone wants to slice it.

I do know teams have to rebuild, be it a 1 year process (hopefully) or a perennial shit show like those teams that are now beating us like a rented mule , even Detroit for fucks sake was close to it.
My problem is that with this leadership and coaching the rebuild process will be way more similar to the jaguars than just a couple of years restocking talent. Just look at the talent the Steelers have drafted lately with this coach as the scout leader: artic burns, Jarvis Jones, the wrong Edmunds, Devin "3 draft picks" bush and now the icing on the cake: knowing that their incumbent RT for 2021 was coming from a season ending injury, that their probowler C had retired and that their probowl G was on his last legs they decided to not draft an Olineman with their top 2 picks and I would get that if they had done their homework in free agency to shore up the needs but what did they bring? A couple of scrubs from other teams and draft a kid in the 3rd that clearly needed a year of strength conditioning and practice as he barely played C at college and a 4th rounder Tackle with nice size and college experience but that is limited as an athlete and needs to improve his technique as many rookies do, right ? Yet this poor guy gets the responsibility of being the blindside protector of our HoF QB that can't escape the pocket like he used to do.
To resume, it's a fuck up of epic proportions that could have been avoided with better drafting in previous years and real planning to fix the teams weaknesses, true coaching talent would recognize the deficiencies but these guys are clueless.
 
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topseed

Well-known member
What is the criteria for development?
  • Cortez Allen showed flashes of talent until he signed his big contract.
  • Anthony Chickillo made the roster and stuck around way longer than I thought he would.
  • Kevin Dotson could potentially develop into a quality LG. He took a step back in year 2.
I don't know what the criteria for development is, exactly, but I don't think your three examples here meet them.

Cortez Allen? Really? lol
Chickillo? The guy started a grand total of 9 games in 6 years -- he "developed" into a career backup and is now out of the league at the age of 28.
Dotson has indeed taken a step back (the opposite of development), and is a member of one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.
 

topseed

Well-known member
I do know teams have to rebuild, be it a 1 year process (hopefully) or a perennial shit show like those teams that are now beating us like a rented mule , even Detroit for fucks sake was close to it.
It can be a one-year process. Just look at the Patriots. They parted ways with Brady, brought Cam Newton in, then realized almost right away that they had made a mistake. They go 7-9, draft their quarterback for the next 10-12 years, and have paired him with a good running game and a punishing defense. Voila! They're 8-4, back in first place in the AFC East, and poised to make a strong playoff run in a mediocre conference.

Unfortunately, Tomlin doesn't seem to like to admit his mistakes, so I don't see something similar happening with the Steelers in the near future.
 

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