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Fire Tomlin

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topseed

Well-known member
Sorry Diver. Worst reason to keep a coach ever.

Did you see Tomlin and say "Let's can Cowher, because this great D coordinator is out there!"? No. None of us had him on our radar. The same when Noll left. No one thought of Cowher. It's just not a reason. I believe that Tibs could coach better. Maybe even Two-Step Bob could. Adjusting to meet the challenge, calling TOs at the right time, having a replay asst coach, Keeping your best players in when it's 1st and goal at the 6YL, etc. That all is coaching 101, taught to pop warner coaches. Shades fails at it over and over again.

It's old, and tiresome.
How about matching up your players' best strengths in game situations? Why didn't they utilize Spillane yesterday when the Lions were gashing their run defense? Everybody and their brother knows that Spillane is a good run-stopper, a thumper. PUT THE FUCKING GUY IN THE GAME. Why did it take so long to make any adjustment at all?

The highest level of football I've ever coached is 16U flag, but even I know that you win by optimizing your own strengths and neutralizing what the opposition does best. It's unimaginable that there are NFL coaches who cannot seem to understand this simple concept.
 

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Steeltime

Right (Adj.) Correct/Left (V) Depart, abandon
I know people get pissed at this, and I have had to ask myself this, because I'd like to see Tomlin go, but...

Who the hell do you hire?

Hey, look, I agree. You don't know. You could get worse, though.

I have addressed this very argument at least twice previously and do so now for the third and final time. First, the argument can never be - EVER - that you keep a coach because "somebody else might be worse." That line of reasoning means that unless a team has the worst coach available - literally, the absolute worst - then the team should not fire the current coach since they might wind up hiring the ONE guy who is worse.

Second, you determine whether or not to keep a coach based on how well the coach does his job - that's it. Nothing more. Tomlin fails that test. Yesterday was Exhibit #427 in proving that point.

Third, in finding a successor, the Steelers pay millions of dollars per year to their GM, scouts, staff, etc. and it is their job to find someone better. Off the top of my head, some recent hires who teams found among the many candidates:

Sean McVay, Rams: 5 years, 50-23, 3-3 playoffs, SB appearance
Sean McDermott: 5 years, 44-29, 2-3 in playoffs, one AFC Championship appearance

My nominee for the position: Dennis Allen, DC for the Saints. His defenses routinely stuff the running game and rush the passer. He had a horrible stint as the Raiders HC from 2012-2014 beginning when he was 40 years old, but that atrocity was due in substantial part to the Raiders facing salary cap hell and then giving him Terrelle Pryor and Matt McGloin as QB. His highlight as HC was probably beating a grossly superior team in week 3 of the 2012 season, or perhaps beating that same team (once again, despite the astonishing talent deficiency) in 2013.

Trying to remember whom he punk'd in consecutive seasons. God, THAT coach is an embarrassment and cannot possibly still be working in the NFL, amirite??
 

Burgettstown Bob

Trolling Twatwaffle
I

I mean, you know what you got in Tomlin. He is a steady guy who the players seem to really value. Maybe they can get players to overcome the coaching here again at some point.
Those who value him see him as one of their "boys". Even at that, I think a strong argument could be made that he isn't valued much at all. Did AB's actions show that he valued Tomlin? How about Leveon's? How about Melvin Ingram? Did he value Tomlin too? If BB values him, it's only because he is able to tell him what he's going to do.
 

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diver

Well-known member
I have addressed this very argument at least twice previously and do so now for the third and final time. First, the argument can never be - EVER - that you keep a coach because "somebody else might be worse." That line of reasoning means that unless a team has the worst coach available - literally, the absolute worst - then the team should not fire the current coach since they might wind up hiring the ONE guy who is worse.

Second, you determine whether or not to keep a coach based on how well the coach does his job - that's it. Nothing more. Tomlin fails that test. Yesterday was Exhibit #427 in proving that point.

Third, in finding a successor, the Steelers pay millions of dollars per year to their GM, scouts, staff, etc. and it is their job to find someone better. Off the top of my head, some recent hires who teams found among the many candidates:

Sean McVay, Rams: 5 years, 50-23, 3-3 playoffs, SB appearance
Sean McDermott: 5 years, 44-29, 2-3 in playoffs, one AFC Championship appearance

My nominee for the position: Dennis Allen, DC for the Saints. His defenses routinely stuff the running game and rush the passer. He had a horrible stint as the Raiders HC from 2012-2014 beginning when he was 40 years old, but that atrocity was due in substantial part to the Raiders facing salary cap hell and then giving him Terrelle Pryor and Matt McGloin as QB. His highlight as HC was probably beating a grossly superior team in week 3 of the 2012 season, or perhaps beating that same team (once again, despite the astonishing talent deficiency) in 2013.

Trying to remember whom he punk'd in consecutive seasons. God, THAT coach is an embarrassment and cannot possibly still be working in the NFL, amirite??
I'm not disagreeing with you about Getting rid of Tomlin. I want the guy gone.

But you're 2 examples. Are McVay or McDermott any better? Really? Heck, last year in the AFCC had you'd put the Bills in Steeler uniforms I would have been hard pressed to tell the difference, the way they played that. McVay...I guess he's ok.

Like I said, I would take the risk. I have seen this movie enough. And with the support a Steeler coach gets from ownership one would think a new guy could be good. But like I said, looking around the league does not inspire great confidence.
 

SteelerinMD

Unleashing Mediocrity Since 1/22/07
Moose Johnston was basically LOL'ing at the Steelers Defense. Saying what we all saw, the Lions ran the same exact play almost every run. Either ran Right or Left with the heavy set of 2 TE's and 2 OT's. The Steelers watch them line up and then all run right into piles of Lions every time. Tackling is downright horrible. Edmunds is terrible and Minka afraid to tackle a RB, but he will hit smaller WR's. Bush just can't read any plays like Edmunds, always bad angles and piss poor tackling. YUP, all coaching. Playing calling as always on both sides of the ball sucked. Danny bubble gum and his ST are also terrible. Either 44 makes the tackle or all run out of lanes and big gains the other way after miss tackles or the "escort tackle" making sure they still have their wallets and grabbing at the ball for 10-15 more yards. Kick the ball deep into the end zone every time and Ray Ray call a fair catch or let ball hit in end zone every time. NO adjustments yet again, as they stick to their game plan. Yall can defend, I have not since the day he was hired. Don't like MT and never will. Don't like his coaching, drafting, X&O, player evaluations, game planning, shit he spews out of his mouth, or his sunglasses. Between him and Goodell, I just care so little about the team and NFL. Rooneys or NFL don't care about us fans support either way. The team used to be the model of consistency and what organizations wanted to be like. Thanks to Mike, they have become a yearly laughing stock of the league.
 

Litos

Well-known member
Moose Johnston was basically LOL'ing at the Steelers Defense. Saying what we all saw, the Lions ran the same exact play almost every run. Either ran Right or Left with the heavy set of 2 TE's and 2 OT's. The Steelers watch them line up and then all run right into piles of Lions every time. Tackling is downright horrible. Edmunds is terrible and Minka afraid to tackle a RB, but he will hit smaller WR's. Bush just can't read any plays like Edmunds, always bad angles and piss poor tackling. YUP, all coaching. Playing calling as always on both sides of the ball sucked. Danny bubble gum and his ST are also terrible. Either 44 makes the tackle or all run out of lanes and big gains the other way after miss tackles or the "escort tackle" making sure they still have their wallets and grabbing at the ball for 10-15 more yards. Kick the ball deep into the end zone every time and Ray Ray call a fair catch or let ball hit in end zone every time. NO adjustments yet again, as they stick to their game plan. Yall can defend, I have not since the day he was hired. Don't like MT and never will. Don't like his coaching, drafting, X&O, player evaluations, game planning, shit he spews out of his mouth, or his sunglasses. Between him and Goodell, I just care so little about the team and NFL. Rooneys or NFL don't care about us fans support either way. The team used to be the model of consistency and what organizations wanted to be like. Thanks to Mike, they have become a yearly laughing stock of the league.
Now tell us how you really feel about Mike T... it wasn't clear enough haha, what a ramble!
 

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Black & Gold Bleeder

Well-known member
Last night, i turned on the Penguin game for a bit. They were getting whipped by the crapitals like 5-1.

Sidney crosby started cross checking a guy for no reason. NONE. It was wierd to watch.

Announcer talked about it and his explanation was that he was doing it to get his team up, and not just lie down .

Sad part is about 1 min later on the power play , the caps scored again. Point is. WHO is doing what , to wake up the steelers. PIngpong priveleges revoked? Hell being unleashed?
 

insaniti

Well-known member
Moose Johnston was basically LOL'ing at the Steelers Defense. Saying what we all saw, the Lions ran the same exact play almost every run. Either ran Right or Left with the heavy set of 2 TE's and 2 OT's. The Steelers watch them line up and then all run right into piles of Lions every time. Tackling is downright horrible. Edmunds is terrible and Minka afraid to tackle a RB, but he will hit smaller WR's. Bush just can't read any plays like Edmunds, always bad angles and piss poor tackling. YUP, all coaching. Playing calling as always on both sides of the ball sucked.
I don't know why it took so long for the Steelers to adjust to that formation, but the tackling didn't help. And Tomlin did address that issue in his press conference and everyone here just laughed at him. Fact of the matter is, on that 42 yard TD run, Heyward was the first man to miss the tackle, then Bush, then Minkah tried to bring him down at the end but was too late.

When Watt went out, Bush stepped up and the way he approached his tackles was completely different. My guess is he got his ass chewed out on the sideline and the camera's didn't catch it, because he was wrapping up with both arms and getting a good grab on the RB. Heyward started to blow things up at the line, Loudermilk and Buggs were disruptive.

As for Edmunds, I felt this was one of his better games. I don't think he'll ever be a center field type of safety, but at the line he's actually really good. He blew up a few running plays at the point, had the sack. In fact, I'd consider bringing in another safety on passing downs, and dropping him down in the MLB position. He's definitely not as bad as this board makes him out to be. Bush is still not 100% and it's obvious just watching him move around. He doesn't have the explosiveness he had his rookie year and beginning of his second before the ACL.
 

SteelerSask2

Well-known member
Here is the deal. When Tomlin was brought in he had structure around him and support from experienced successful coordinators and position coaches. Tomlin as I've always said is a great leader. So it worked and they won. As time went by the belief was that Tomlin was the driver. But he just never really had the football chops. He just doesn't. You see Reid, Belicheat,Payton. They are walking around with big cards calling the plays. Why? Cause THEY got the chops. So then the Steelers hire bargain basement coaches more or less. And no one can fix fuck all on the fly.
 

MT~Forged

Well-known member
Tomlin was given the opportunity way too early in his career. He just did not have the experience, and as he has not had someone to learn from, he has never even developed. The lions share of his accolades is due to a future HOF QB that he has had his whole tenure. Without Ben, I don’t think he would have lasted 5 years.
His smartest move would be to retire when Ben does. But his ego will never allow him to see this. After Ben is gone, he will be FULLY EXPOSED AS THE FRAUD HE IS.
 

diver

Well-known member
I just want to throw out there...Sean McVay was mentioned as an example of if they move on from Tomlin, good coaches are out there. As much as I would like to move on from Tomlin, I question that there are these great, young coaches just falling off trees.

How would we be howling after last nights Rams performance if that was the Steelers? And this is a Rams team with arguably much more on paper talent than the Steelers.
 

insaniti

Well-known member
Here is the deal. When Tomlin was brought in he had structure around him and support from experienced successful coordinators and position coaches. Tomlin as I've always said is a great leader. So it worked and they won. As time went by the belief was that Tomlin was the driver. But he just never really had the football chops. He just doesn't. You see Reid, Belicheat,Payton. They are walking around with big cards calling the plays. Why? Cause THEY got the chops. So then the Steelers hire bargain basement coaches more or less. And no one can fix fuck all on the fly.
Reid and Payton are offensive coaches and they call the plays, Belicheat doesn't count
 

SteelerinMD

Unleashing Mediocrity Since 1/22/07
Now tell us how you really feel about Mike T... it wasn't clear enough haha, what a ramble!

Yeah I know. I don't usually post that kinda stuff. I read here multiple times daily and enjoy it. hate that I have lost touch with some folks due to Tomlin, Steelers, Rooney's, NFL, kneeling ect...A lot we used to go all over the country to games with, draft days, and home game tailgates, they have diminished over the recent years. I watch for 3 hours on game day and bitch about Tomlin and then outside of here don't care. I have not gone to a game in 8 years (after averaging 7/year) Haven't bought any Steelers swag or paraphernalia in even longer. Own 1 Steeler Nation Long Sleeve, 1 skull cap and a breast cancer hat. I will not support GODell's NFL, Rooneys support of Tomlin or the BS that goes on most of the time. Hell, I shipped Warriors about 10 years ago a shit load of my collectable Steelers stuff and donated 120 jerseys to a football program. Tattooed but really can't do much about that, have thought about having covered, but not that annoyed yet. As I said before, closing in on 50 and realizing the Rooney's and NFL don't give 2 fucking shits about their fans. The game I grew up on and loved is LONG gone.
 
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SteelerInLebanon

Well-known member
What’s racist? The Rooney Rule? Yes, I 100% agree.
How is it racist to require interviews only? It isn't requiring anyone to hire anyone, that I would have a real problem with it but simply requiring people get an interview isn't hurting anyone. There are some topics I agree with you on but this is one I think you are way off.
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
How is it racist to require interviews only? It isn't requiring anyone to hire anyone, that I would have a real problem with it but simply requiring people get an interview isn't hurting anyone. There are some topics I agree with you on but this is one I think you are way off.
Do they require so many white people in training camp each year. I mean white people make up 2/3 of the us population so every camp should have 2/3 Caucasian people, right?

It’s a racist policy. Individually, people can have their own strengths and weaknesses. Group wise a race will have a predominate strength and weaknesses. To deny this is both ignorant and unscientific.
 

SteelerInLebanon

Well-known member
Do they require so many white people in training camp each year. I mean white people make up 2/3 of the us population so every camp should have 2/3 Caucasian people, right?

It’s a racist policy. Individually, people can have their own strengths and weaknesses. Group wise a race will have a predominate strength and weaknesses. To deny this is both ignorant and unscientific.
I still have no problem with giving people who have been repressed economically and racially(by their own party) a chance they might not have gotten otherwise. This is totally different than racial quotas or admission standards that favor selecting people by race. This is not a handout or any type of guarantee of a job simply a chance to get in front of the person making a decision. I don’t understand how anyone has an issue with that. Now if they try to make it mandatory you hire someone based on race that is an entirely different issue. I think anyone who goes into the politics forum knows where I stand but that doesn’t mean I don’t see things from both sides. The NFL has been a good old boys club for a long time and some have not changed. I don’t want wokeness but simply giving an interview is something I can certainly support.
 

Badcat

Well-known member
Do they require so many white people in training camp each year. I mean white people make up 2/3 of the us population so every camp should have 2/3 Caucasian people, right?

It’s a racist policy. Individually, people can have their own strengths and weaknesses. Group wise a race will have a predominate strength and weaknesses. To deny this is both ignorant and unscientific.
So, you're saying that a white person's lack of physical ability should be compensated just as black coaches are being compensated for their lack of mental ability?

I've liked you over the years Fordy but this type of thinking right here, is bullshit. Complete bullshit. And I'm shocked reading your statements. I've served with leaders in the military and worked with executives who were people of color and they would run mental circles around most people in this world. I have to stop typing before I say some shit. You pissed me off. Damn, this is disappointing.
 

Turd Ferguson

Well-known member
If you have followed closely in the Tomlin era then you know or even expected the Steelers to play down to the Lions and probably lose. I was not shocked in the least...not one bit. The Tomlin standard is the standard and that is not being mentally prepared and coached to beat an inferior opponent. It will be that way until he decides to leave the Steelers and not a day before.
 

Djfan

Well-known member
My friends who are fans of other teams, have said that they would love to have him as a coach. I keep hoping some team goes after him successfully.

So, while it is probably certain that he was interviewed due to the Rooney Rule, it is also very clear that he stood out to the hiring committee as "the man" in that group. I'm cool with that. But, sooner or later, someone has to see that he is not what he looked to be in the interview.

Just done with the guy.

We moved from So Cal in 09. I was done with him already then. You could see that he didn't learn from his weaknesses, couldn't adjust, spoke above his abilities, couldn't coach up a learning or struggling player, couldn't pick coordinators (back then), and was just not all that. Coaching up Mendenhall might have meant a SB win against GB. Instead, Cool Shades just said that he was not a cheer leader, and that he expected grown men to step up by themselves. Retard.
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
So, you're saying that a white person's lack of physical ability should be compensated just as black coaches are being compensated for their lack of mental ability?

I've liked you over the years Fordy but this type of thinking right here, is bullshit. Complete bullshit. And I'm shocked reading your statements. I've served with leaders in the military and worked with executives who were people of color and they would run mental circles around most people in this world. I have to stop typing before I say some shit. You pissed me off. Damn, this is disappointing.
What I’m saying is physically gifted players rarely make great coaches. Think about Barry Sanders trying to tell a RB to stop on a dime, spin move, then in two steps be at max speed. Probably not going to resonate with a player. But a player with an once of talent but a ton of passion and desire will hyper focus on technique, strategy, finding weaknesses in film, etc. Those players happen to be white more often than black.

So if you look at society blacks make up roughly 13% of the population. And I believe there’s 3 or 4 black head coaches. So statistically speaking we are at about that 13% benchmark.

I’m saying trying to get the NFL hire or give black coaches advantages is racist.
 

jitter77

Well-known member
Good coaches can come from anywhere. Look at cowher he was a special teams coach. I don't think he was high on peoples coaching list. I have no issue with the team hiring Tomlin as I'm sure he gave a great interview. Other than being a good speaker i don't think Tomlin brings much to the team. Game planning and X's and O's are terrible. You can blame the coordinators, but who is their boss? Either Tomlin is controlling the crappy playcalls or he is not taking control and holding the coordinators responsible. Same with putting Ray Ray out there the guy is a turnover waiting to happen, but yet we keep trotting him out there. It's not like he has explosive capabilities. I just think they need to bring in a more strategy oriented coach.
 

Djfan

Well-known member
Good coaches can come from anywhere. Look at cowher he was a special teams coach. I don't think he was high on peoples coaching list. I have no issue with the team hiring Tomlin as I'm sure he gave a great interview. Other than being a good speaker i don't think Tomlin brings much to the team. Game planning and X's and O's are terrible. You can blame the coordinators, but who is their boss? Either Tomlin is controlling the crappy playcalls or he is not taking control and holding the coordinators responsible. Same with putting Ray Ray out there the guy is a turnover waiting to happen, but yet we keep trotting him out there. It's not like he has explosive capabilities. I just think they need to bring in a more strategy oriented coach.
Helen Keller would have been a more strategy oriented coach
 

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