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NFL Bringing in the Black National Anthem, For the forseeable future.

bermudasteel

Well-known member
It looked really cool on the roof of the General Lee. :LOL:

Actually, the flag that you're referring to is the Battle flag of the Tennessee army. There were multiple versions of the flag that symbolized the National Confederacy, none of which were flown over courthouses or Civil War monuments that I know of. Why the Tennessee battle flag was chosen to represent the south I have no clue.

Anyway, I see the flag with historical importance representing a war that shaped not only our country, but changed our societal structure and behavior. My paternal Grandfather is from the South and he married my Grandmother who is from Pennsylvania. Both had ancestors fight at Gettysburg. Although my Grandfather is a proud southern man, he only flew one flag at his house, the American flag.

My first duty station out of Basic training was Dyess AFB in Abilene, TX. I went to the local mall and in a t-shirt shop one shirt said "Armadillo 10 points, Jackrabbit 20 points, Yankee 100 points" You see, many Southerners believe the war wasn't primarily fought over slavery but rather the federal government enacting unreasonable tariffs on the goods produced in the south. If you read about the Carpet Baggers following the war then you'll understand where this belief was only reinforced. You'll find this group flying the flag as a symbol of heritage.

You also have people flying it out of spite, as a symbol of rebellion, or even hatred towards black people. And as you are a man of color I can certainly see where you may see it a sign of oppression and hate, you've certainly earned that right. Flags can mean different things to different people. I believe the flag should be flown at civil war battle fields, monuments, and the like due to historical importance and a dark reminder of our horrid atrocities against the African people. But outside of that, no, I don't think it should be flown.
I appreciate this response. It means a lot that you took the time to help me understand your perspective...
 

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Steelworth

Absolutely Worthless
It looked really cool on the roof of the General Lee. :LOL:

Actually, the flag that you're referring to is the Battle flag of the Tennessee army. There were multiple versions of the flag that symbolized the National Confederacy, none of which were flown over courthouses or Civil War monuments that I know of. Why the Tennessee battle flag was chosen to represent the south I have no clue.

Anyway, I see the flag with historical importance representing a war that shaped not only our country, but changed our societal structure and behavior. My paternal Grandfather is from the South and he married my Grandmother who is from Pennsylvania. Both had ancestors fight at Gettysburg. Although my Grandfather is a proud southern man, he only flew one flag at his house, the American flag.

My first duty station out of Basic training was Dyess AFB in Abilene, TX. I went to the local mall and in a t-shirt shop one shirt said "Armadillo 10 points, Jackrabbit 20 points, Yankee 100 points" You see, many Southerners believe the war wasn't primarily fought over slavery but rather the federal government enacting unreasonable tariffs on the goods produced in the south. If you read about the Carpet Baggers following the war then you'll understand where this belief was only reinforced. You'll find this group flying the flag as a symbol of heritage.

You also have people flying it out of spite, as a symbol of rebellion, or even hatred towards black people. And as you are a man of color I can certainly see where you may see it a sign of oppression and hate, you've certainly earned that right. Flags can mean different things to different people. I believe the flag should be flown at civil war battle fields, monuments, and the like due to historical importance and a dark reminder of our horrid atrocities against the African people. But outside of that, no, I don't think it should be flown.

Well said, BC. Just curious, you ever go to the National Civil War Museum in Harrisburg? Less than an hour north of Gettysburg IIRC. Solemn place, but a place every American should go to. Like you said, for better or for worse, it's our country's history.
 

Badcat

Well-known member
Well said, BC. Just curious, you ever go to the National Civil War Museum in Harrisburg? Less than an hour north of Gettysburg IIRC. Solemn place, but a place every American should go to. Like you said, for better or for worse, it's our country's history.
Yes I have. It's only 15 minutes drive from my house.
 

Steelmann

Well-known member
I'm a life-long student, good sir - I definitely don't have all the answers...

I'll say this - I know who to ignore here but overall we're taking baby steps in the right direction.
You know Bermuda,I started off my original post with why I thought the NFL will be playing the Black Anthem.
If 70% of the players are black ( with a strong union behind them) and the majority want it played and it really means a lot to the players,what is the harm. Several people in here stated they thought the rendition posted was beautiful and had no problem with it. Especially if people realize as you stated,you do not consider it a National Anthem.

I get the division of race argument, and the obvious,well then we need an anthem for every little thing. Where do we draw the line. But I come back to the 70% number.

I admittedly have never been part of any military service. I can never pretend to have walked in your shoes,so there is no way I can judge what the National Anthem means to yourselves. Would it be fair to say you would feel disrespected for all that you have done for your country?

Deep down that’s what I feel people of color are trying to say with this. They would like a little more respect. Want to be heard. It’s important. My opinion.

The cynical will say respect is earned and will point to the recent riots,and I am sure many other things ,which was definitely not a good look. I certainly don’t condone it,but we do know historically that civil disobedience happens with change.

As I said in my original post. I sure as shit don’t know the answers to a lot of the issues. What I do know is that we are all such a small blip in the worlds history. Being part of a United and tolerant society would be a good footnote.
 

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bermudasteel

Well-known member
You know Bermuda,I started off my original post with why I thought the NFL will be playing the Black Anthem.
If 70% of the players are black ( with a strong union behind them) and the majority want it played and it really means a lot to the players,what is the harm. Several people in here stated they thought the rendition posted was beautiful and had no problem with it. Especially if people realize as you stated,you do not consider it a National Anthem.

I get the division of race argument, and the obvious,well then we need an anthem for every little thing. Where do we draw the line. But I come back to the 70% number.

I admittedly have never been part of any military service. I can never pretend to have walked in your shoes,so there is no way I can judge what the National Anthem means to yourselves. Would it be fair to say you would feel disrespected for all that you have done for your country?

Deep down that’s what I feel people of color are trying to say with this. They would like a little more respect. Want to be heard. It’s important. My opinion.

The cynical will say respect is earned and will point to the recent riots,and I am sure many other things ,which was definitely not a good look. I certainly don’t condone it,but we do know historically that civil disobedience happens with change.

As I said in my original post. I sure as shit don’t know the answers to a lot of the issues. What I do know is that we are all such a small blip in the worlds history. Being part of a United and tolerant society would be a good footnote.
#standingovation
 

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Superman

Everyone's Most Favorite Member
IMO, you draw the line at the Ogre National Anthem. No one - no human, that is - wants to hear belching and farting for four minutes and 30 seconds, regardless of who is "singing"

Anyway, I've had members of my family serve in the military for generations. My paternal grandfather was a paratrooper in WW2. Its how he met my grandmother. But that's a different story. Members of my maternal side also served. I currently have a cousin in the Air Force. I also think of how their lives moved since being in the military. I did not serve. Looking back, I wish I would have.

Thus, when I hear the National Anthem being played, I think of my family who served. Some saw wars, others were in various battles around the globe. I also think of the servicemen they served with (even though I didn't and don't know them). I think of the military who gave their lives so as to prevent this country from falling to those who wanted to conquer us. I think of how the country broke away from England to become independent. I also think of my friends who served. Some from high school, some from grade school, others I've met along the way. I see those people as the ones who allowed this country to be great.

While this country absolutely CAN be better, it IS the best on the planet. No other country comes close. Just my opinion. You can take yours, fold it over twice, then fold it over again, and shove it up your ass if you don't agree with me.

I grew up in Memphis, possibly one of the most raysiss places in the country. MLK was killed there, so the raysissm is deep in the Bluff City. Yet, at the same time, as people worked together, they saw past skin color and saw the character of the person they were working with, talking to, playing sports with, etc.

Racism is never going away. It might become less amplified and thus be relegated to the deep dark shadows it should be in, but its never going away.

As such, when the national anthem is played, it is played for ALL Americans. Despite skin color. If we are to move past racism as a country, then we should be able to unify under one flag, one anthem and be one people.
 

bermudasteel

Well-known member
IMO, you draw the line at the Ogre National Anthem. No one - no human, that is - wants to hear belching and farting for four minutes and 30 seconds, regardless of who is "singing"

Anyway, I've had members of my family serve in the military for generations. My paternal grandfather was a paratrooper in WW2. Its how he met my grandmother. But that's a different story. Members of my maternal side also served. I currently have a cousin in the Air Force. I also think of how their lives moved since being in the military. I did not serve. Looking back, I wish I would have.

Thus, when I hear the National Anthem being played, I think of my family who served. Some saw wars, others were in various battles around the globe. I also think of the servicemen they served with (even though I didn't and don't know them). I think of the military who gave their lives so as to prevent this country from falling to those who wanted to conquer us. I think of how the country broke away from England to become independent. I also think of my friends who served. Some from high school, some from grade school, others I've met along the way. I see those people as the ones who allowed this country to be great.

While this country absolutely CAN be better, it IS the best on the planet. No other country comes close. Just my opinion. You can take yours, fold it over twice, then fold it over again, and shove it up your ass if you don't agree with me.

I grew up in Memphis, possibly one of the most raysiss places in the country. MLK was killed there, so the raysissm is deep in the Bluff City. Yet, at the same time, as people worked together, they saw past skin color and saw the character of the person they were working with, talking to, playing sports with, etc.

Racism is never going away. It might become less amplified and thus be relegated to the deep dark shadows it should be in, but its never going away.

As such, when the national anthem is played, it is played for ALL Americans. Despite skin color. If we are to move past racism as a country, then we should be able to unify under one flag, one anthem and be one people.
Cooch says your head is too big for you to serve in the military...
 

Confluence

Well-known member
Berm, I've read and studied poetry my whole life, so hear me out on this. I'll include the whole third verse to provide context.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave,
From the terror of flight and the gloom of the grave;
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave!


So the first four lines are directed at the British who "vauntly", meaning excessive boasting, swore that they were unleashing Hell and they would leave us without a country, A home if you will. The fourth line is a HUGE middle finger stating "their blood has washed away their foul footsteps' Pollution". He called the British a pollution upon our country's shores. Then we come to the part where he says "No refuge could save the hireling and slave", this is a continuation of those polluting British, their hired contractors and slaves, so what he's saying here is that even the hired help "wasn't safe from the gloom of the grave" I highlighted the word could in the above verse to show past tense as it's important in the fact that many people stating the verse is racist, isn't showing the verse in it's entirety. He didn't write the word "can" which would mean a continued pursuit of slaves, he wrote the would "could"

Where we, as Americans, go wrong is not showing how important African, Asian, and Latino people were to the very fight of our Nation, and still are today. Keep in mind when reading this third verse that there are black, yellow, and brown people chasing down and killing that "pollution" upon our shores including the contractors and slaves. The Red stripes on the flag that doth wave stand for Hardiness and Valor, and if you read the stories of Charles Ball and WIlliam Williams and many other heros of color you'll see that this Third verse isn't inclusive of all slaves, just the slaves that polluted our shores in support of the British.
context matters.

thank you
 

steel dino

Wake up the echo's
Hunky's or honky's?
Hunky's are Eastern Europeans, honky's are white people in general.

A little something for we hunky's:

The Pennsylvania Polka!!

Yes---you dont get more "honky" than Eastern Europeans! lol

Mill Hunky's is how it all got started...every yinzer should know that!
;)

BTW---Love that song!! Brings back great memories!
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Complete non issue in my book… seriously who cares… the nhl routinely plays the Canadian anthem in american cities when they play a Canadian team… nobody cares… there are all sorts of ceremonies and tributes… its all just static and noise except to those who care about it… its no different than the kneeling thing… overblown and idiotic to worry about
 

ZonaBurgh

Well-known member
They play Renegade for all you Hunky's at every game........why not a little something for the brothers and sisters?!?
:)
Here's where I think everyone gets their panties in a twist, no one is saying that Renegade is a national anthem, although it does bring out emotions in people when played at the game. If they said that Lift Every Voice and Sing would be played out of respect for a segment of the population, I doubt many would complain, at least I would hope so. But the people that live to stir the pot, can't help but label this as a separate national anthem, and to them them I say go fuck yourself.
 

Stewey

Well-known member
Complete non issue in my book… seriously who cares… the nhl routinely plays the Canadian anthem in american cities when they play a Canadian team… nobody cares… there are all sorts of ceremonies and tributes… its all just static and noise except to those who care about it… its no different than the kneeling thing… overblown and idiotic to worry about
Why should anyone care? There is no reason to.

The Canadian National Anthem is still a national anthem....played out of courtesy to foreign players I suppose.

It's not some stupid woke song.
 

Stewey

Well-known member
I grew up in Memphis, possibly one of the most raysiss places in the country. MLK was killed there, so the raysissm is deep in the Bluff City. Yet, at the same time, as people worked together, they saw past skin color and saw the character of the person they were working with, talking to, playing sports with, etc.

Racism is never going away. It might become less amplified and thus be relegated to the deep dark shadows it should be in, but its never going away.

As such, when the national anthem is played, it is played for ALL Americans. Despite skin color. If we are to move past racism as a country, then we should be able to unify under one flag, one anthem and be one people.

Ah yes, but today seeing past skin color makes you a raciss. You must recognize skin color. You don't recognize skin color means you don't recognize the oppression people like your black co- worker and LeBron James are facing every day.

About time you get woke my friend.
 

MTC

Well-known member
IMO, you draw the line at the Ogre National Anthem. No one - no human, that is - wants to hear belching and farting for four minutes and 30 seconds, regardless of who is "singing"

Anyway, I've had members of my family serve in the military for generations. My paternal grandfather was a paratrooper in WW2. Its how he met my grandmother. But that's a different story. Members of my maternal side also served. I currently have a cousin in the Air Force. I also think of how their lives moved since being in the military. I did not serve. Looking back, I wish I would have.

Thus, when I hear the National Anthem being played, I think of my family who served. Some saw wars, others were in various battles around the globe. I also think of the servicemen they served with (even though I didn't and don't know them). I think of the military who gave their lives so as to prevent this country from falling to those who wanted to conquer us. I think of how the country broke away from England to become independent. I also think of my friends who served. Some from high school, some from grade school, others I've met along the way. I see those people as the ones who allowed this country to be great.

While this country absolutely CAN be better, it IS the best on the planet. No other country comes close. Just my opinion. You can take yours, fold it over twice, then fold it over again, and shove it up your ass if you don't agree with me.

I grew up in Memphis, possibly one of the most raysiss places in the country. MLK was killed there, so the raysissm is deep in the Bluff City. Yet, at the same time, as people worked together, they saw past skin color and saw the character of the person they were working with, talking to, playing sports with, etc.

Racism is never going away. It might become less amplified and thus be relegated to the deep dark shadows it should be in, but its never going away.

As such, when the national anthem is played, it is played for ALL Americans. Despite skin color. If we are to move past racism as a country, then we should be able to unify under one flag, one anthem and be one people.
 

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