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The draft matters

FordFairLane

Well-known member
Steelers really waited too long to address the offensive line. Not just talking about this year but lets face it passing on Creed Humphry might not have been the best decision. I love Freiermuth but Creed is just killing it this year grading out at 80 in pff and Josh Myers isn’t far behind at 77. Kendrick Green is grading out at 55. Good news that’s the same as forum favorite Quinn Meinerz. I honestly think even a bigger problem is the Steelers didn’t address this issue years before in the draft. Pouncey, Big Al, DeCastro, Feiler all old and free agents upcoming and the Steelers didn’t try to grab more mid round offensive linemen in hopes of having one or two starters waiting in the wings for this year. And then the one decent young guy they did develop they let him go in Matt Feiler. I mean 7 million a year for a guy that can play every position on your line and right now grades out at 82 overall in pff is cheap for a LG.

I guess what I’m saying is this is more than Roethlisberger getting old, or Tomlin being an inept coach. This rebuild I feel goes higher. I think new coaching, new GM, and to be honest all the way to Art the deuce. His inability to handle the same problems year after year is infuriating. I don’t see him selling his Golden goose but maybe hire someone who isn’t a moron to handle day to day operations.
 

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Steeltime

So conservative, I'll vote (R) after I die.
Yeah, agreed. Friermuth might be pretty good. If the OL could block for shit. If Ben looked for receivers over the middle of the field. If the OL did not need a TON of help. If Humphrey was an "ehh" prospect, instead of one who deservedly brought about first-round talk and was still there at freaking pick 55, let alone falling to pick 63.

Taking Harris I could get. Tevan Jenkins was still available at 22, but Harris is a top-tier talent. But passing on OL with the first TWO picks was a mistake.
 

BLITZ

Well-known member
I really dont think we are that far off. all we need is a franchise QB ,new head coach and coordinators, receivers that can get open, an offensive line, a healthy defense front 7 and basically a new secondary other than Mincah., fans that show up for home games( or not if you want to help with expediting said changes.

Thats it.
 

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FordFairLane

Well-known member
I feel the Steelers do one of two things in the draft. Either draft a guy at a position regardless of where he is on the board. Uncle Jarvis and Artie Burns come to mind. Or they completely ignore their needs and only go off their board. I personally look board first with need second. You can’t tell him Freiermuth was graded something ridiculously ahead of Creed Humphrey. They draft a workhorse running back then don’t get him any linemen to run behind. So my guess is next year they draft linemen 3 of 4 of their top picks. Because they tried getting cute with waiting this year and instead of allowing these guys to develop they’ll do a knee jerk reaction and overdraft guys and forget to address other needs or soon be needs.
 

slashsteel

Well-known member
I really don't think we are that far off. all we need is a franchise QB ,new head coach and coordinators, receivers that can get open, an offensive line, a healthy defense front 7 and basically a new secondary other than Mincah., fans that show up for home games ( or not if you want to help with expediting said changes).

That's it.
Claypool and Johnson and Juju can get open. But yeah....
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Long term i love what Greene could develop into, as well as moore… but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have brought in a better quality stopgap at Center or Tackle … its super important to stop the pressure up the middle and with so many inexperienced players over the left side ( even if chuks was there) a second true vet would have been advisable to let the kid at c bulk up some… and as a failsafe incase chuks or moore struggle… i mean our potential saving grace is banner , who isn’t exactly long at the tooth in starting experience either

I just don’t understand why tgey didn’t bring a second vet in for the oline

Drafting a first or second round guy doesn’t always mean they are ready to play right out of the box, but usually drafting 3rd and 4th round linemen means they need at least a year or two to season before they are really ready… i think maybe this was putting the cart before the horse by starting these two rookies already…
 

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madinsomniac

Well-known member
And Muth is a great pick and absolutely solved a long term need… you can absolutely do that but then you still address the line with a free agent acquisition or two until the draft picks pan out…
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
And Muth is a great pick and absolutely solved a long term need… you can absolutely do that but then you still address the line with a free agent acquisition or two until the draft picks pan out…
I did love Freiermuth but my point is we had bigger needs. Muth at least prevents the need to draft a TE in the foreseeable future but unless Green, Moore, and Dotson take some big steps forward quickly this season will get away from us.
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
I did love Freiermuth but my point is we had bigger needs. Muth at least prevents the need to draft a TE in the foreseeable future but unless Green, Moore, and Dotson take some big steps forward quickly this season will get away from us.
I mean some of those other olinemen are struggling too… rookie olinemen rarely work out at first

I think we will be much better by midseason… i just wish we had a couple solid vets in there that would eventually be replaced by these guys rather than have them learn on the field
 

Steelmann

Well-known member
So...........just out of curiosity. For the last couple of months people have been going on and on......KC,the greatest GM in the NFL. All the great moves he has made,yada,yada,yada. Still true?

I have no big problems with KC. But I have mentioned a couple times that I don’t necessarily agree with everything.
Can’t blame it all on Tomlin. A lot of us wanted the line addressed with the first 2 picks. There was a huge cheer on here when Harris was drafted. I love Harris,but I still don’t think it was the right move. Of course the draft or FA should have been addressing the line for the last few years. Just as it should have been addressing the DB situation. Believe me,our DB situation will be just as dire as our line situation next season,and will be weak now.

Being old school,I love our team built, developed through the draft. Our players,rather than FA. The only way we are going to be respectable in the next few years is through FA. I really think we are missing a ton of pieces. Our Dline is getting old as well. Giving up that draft capital for Bush? We will see. There were good players on the board for the picks we gave. Time will tell. He sure as shit is not there yet. And pretty soon he’s going to start yapping about a new big buck contract. He is that type.

Everyone is screaming about the line. I mean really. What did people expect. It takes a couple years for a line to gel. Especially 3-5 round picks. Blame the Front Office,coaches for not having any vision for the future.
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
I mean some of those other olinemen are struggling too… rookie olinemen rarely work out at first

I think we will be much better by midseason… i just wish we had a couple solid vets in there that would eventually be replaced by these guys rather than have them learn on the field
I think we could have got away with Green over Humphrey if we kept Feiler. I think if we kept Feiler and drafted Humphrey or Myers, Najee would be averaging a good yard more a carry.

I agree Moore and Green will get better but I do worry about their confidence. Getting man handled each week might start letting doubt creep into their mindset. Could be detrimental to their development.
 

SteelerFan448

Well-known member
I was fully prepared to take Humphrey in the first (I admittedly wanted Jenkins without knowing about his back injury, that obviously changed things). Either way, the Steelers could have had Harris/Humphrey or Humphrey/Freiermuth. Not saying Green can't develop, but Humphrey was arguably the best center in the draft, had an incredible career at Oklahoma, has the athleticism to make it to the second level and the size to handle powerful IDL. You also had a guy like Sam Cosmi, who was a borderline first, but had a huge upside as a LT. Of course, the one that burns me the most is Trey Smith going in the late round when the Steelers are busy taking special teams players and long-term development projects.
 

6Lombardis

Well-known member
Steelers really waited too long to address the offensive line. Not just talking about this year but lets face it passing on Creed Humphry might not have been the best decision. I love Freiermuth but Creed is just killing it this year grading out at 80 in pff and Josh Myers isn’t far behind at 77. Kendrick Green is grading out at 55. Good news that’s the same as forum favorite Quinn Meinerz. I honestly think even a bigger problem is the Steelers didn’t address this issue years before in the draft. Pouncey, Big Al, DeCastro, Feiler all old and free agents upcoming and the Steelers didn’t try to grab more mid round offensive linemen in hopes of having one or two starters waiting in the wings for this year. And then the one decent young guy they did develop they let him go in Matt Feiler. I mean 7 million a year for a guy that can play every position on your line and right now grades out at 82 overall in pff is cheap for a LG.

I guess what I’m saying is this is more than Roethlisberger getting old, or Tomlin being an inept coach. This rebuild I feel goes higher. I think new coaching, new GM, and to be honest all the way to Art the deuce. His inability to handle the same problems year after year is infuriating. I don’t see him selling his Golden goose but maybe hire someone who isn’t a moron to handle day to day operations.
Good points all. Did the FO get caught napping by the DeCastro injury and Pouncy leaving? Those two perennial pro-bowlers were the last two 1st round OL picks theyve taken.. Not sure Tombert could have fixed the line with just the 2021 draft if they had wanted to. Not sure they even believe in drafting high for o linemen. Hell our last two LTs were Beechem, a sixth or 7th rounder and AV, a cast off from another team who may not have even been originally drafted.
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Good points all. Did the FO get caught napping by the DeCastro injury and Pouncy leaving? Those two perennial pro-bowlers were the last two 1st round OL picks theyve taken.. Not sure Tombert could have fixed the line with just the 2021 draft if they had wanted to. Not sure they even believe in drafting high for o linemen. Hell our last two LTs were Beechem, a sixth or 7th rounder and AV, a cast off from another team who may not have even been originally drafted.
That is why you perpetually groom backups and why you don’t let things get to the point you are going to have 4/5 new starters at once

The true Steelers way is having legacies at positions tgrough both schemes and knowledge passed down from players as well as coaches…
 

Punxsutawney

Well-known member
I was fully prepared to take Humphrey in the first (I admittedly wanted Jenkins without knowing about his back injury, that obviously changed things). Either way, the Steelers could have had Harris/Humphrey or Humphrey/Freiermuth. Not saying Green can't develop, but Humphrey was arguably the best center in the draft, had an incredible career at Oklahoma, has the athleticism to make it to the second level and the size to handle powerful IDL. You also had a guy like Sam Cosmi, who was a borderline first, but had a huge upside as a LT. Of course, the one that burns me the most is Trey Smith going in the late round when the Steelers are busy taking special teams players and long-term development projects.

I've read/heard that Green was the center prospect they targeted and wanted going into the draft. They sent Adrian Klemm to Illinois to personally work him out.

I think Green will be a good player in time, as he has a great size/athleticism ratio and seems to have the mentality one wants in a lineman.

It's just curious how they considered him a "plug and play" prospect, given how he played center only a handful of games in college.
 

Punxsutawney

Well-known member
Good points all. Did the FO get caught napping by the DeCastro injury and Pouncy leaving? Those two perennial pro-bowlers were the last two 1st round OL picks theyve taken.. Not sure Tombert could have fixed the line with just the 2021 draft if they had wanted to. Not sure they even believe in drafting high for o linemen. Hell our last two LTs were Beechem, a sixth or 7th rounder and AV, a cast off from another team who may not have even been originally drafted.

They put a pretty high emphasis on it in the 2010-2012 period, using first or second round picks on Pouncey, Decastro, Mike Adams and Marcus Gilbert, so there is a precedent for Tombert drafting OL high.

They just went on to neglect it for about decade.

I think it's largely a product of priorities and philosophy. Cowher believed the OL was the heart of the team, and it showed in all the high draft picks (Leon Searcy, Jermaine Stephens, Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith, Kendall Simmons) and money in free agency (Wil Wolford, Wayne Gandy, Jeff Hartings) they invested there during his time.

As I said earlier in the thread, spending all those 2nd round picks on receivers has come back to bite them in the ass. If two or three of those picks were used on the line, the Steelers might be a significantly better team right now.
 

slashsteel

Well-known member
I thought the fail started with Klemm instead of hiring a better option outside instead of a part of the problem from a season prior. Then they didn't attack the cap to free up room early to be able to attack the Oline. Their same ho hum slow developing approach. So your talent level wasn't good which forced throwing rookies into the fire. Perhaps failing on Decastro's situation as well. Then you bring back an aging declining QB that lost mobility that would need it with a green Oline .A Tombert fail that they wear well.
 

21STEELERS21

Well-known member
Our 2021 draft is going to work out fine, but maybe not for 2021. You need a quality blocking TE to run the ball, so getting a different OL in the second wasn't going to fix the line for 2021.
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
Good points all. Did the FO get caught napping by the DeCastro injury and Pouncy leaving? Those two perennial pro-bowlers were the last two 1st round OL picks theyve taken.. Not sure Tombert could have fixed the line with just the 2021 draft if they had wanted to. Not sure they even believe in drafting high for o linemen. Hell our last two LTs were Beechem, a sixth or 7th rounder and AV, a cast off from another team who may not have even been originally drafted.
I’m certain DeCastro caught them off guard. That probably impacts their decision on Feiler at least a little if they’d known more about the injury. Of course why aren’t we more aware of our starting guards injury is another thread. But either way Al, DD, and Pouncey all had contracts coming up and had declined in ability the last 2-3 seasons. If you look at 2019 our second 3rd pick was Justin Layne (pff 44). The next lineman off the board was OG Connor McGovern(pff 76). Our next pick was Benny Snell (pff 50). The next guard off the board was Ben Powers (pff 72).

Of course hindsight is 20/20 but I just feel the Steelers really ignored future line needs trying to hit on a risky CB with upside and a RB we might have got later in the draft. I think they get too cute sometimes.

Now I’m a numbers guy. I think the analytics used by the previous GM for Cleveland is the reason they are successful now. Give them 3-4 years and I feel they will flop so here’s some numbers. Here’s the numbers between 2004 and 2015.

DB by round percentage of success.
1st- 64%
2nd- 46%
3rd- 24%
4th- 11%
5th- 17%
6th- 8%
7th- 11%

OL by round percentage of success.
1st- 83%
2nd- 70%
3rd- 40%
4th- 29%
5th- 16%
6th- 16%
7th- 9%

RB by round percentage of success.
1st- 58%
2nd- 25%
3rd- 16%
4th- 11%
5th- 9%
6th- 6%
7th- effectively 0%

Now to be fair to RB’s the RBBC is hard to factor in. But as you can see it’s harder than ever to get a bell cow. But this is what I see. We should be drafting an offensive linemen in the 4th, 5th or 6th every year we don’t need an offensive lineman. By doing that we have a 2/3 chance of getting a starter. On years we see in 2 years a contract is coming up and maybe it’s an aging player we aren’t sure we want to break the bank for we should be taking 2nd or 3rd guys. If you go 2nd and 3rd the two years before you are almost guaranteed 1 will start. And years where your starting center unexpectedly retires and you have no starter in the wings you have to get one that draft in the first two rounds.

That’s just what I’d be doing. And by doing that I feel you’d almost always have a guy waiting in the wings when a contract is coming up.
 

topseed

Well-known member
I've read/heard that Green was the center prospect they targeted and wanted going into the draft. They sent Adrian Klemm to Illinois to personally work him out.

I think Green will be a good player in time, as he has a great size/athleticism ratio and seems to have the mentality one wants in a lineman.

It's just curious how they considered him a "plug and play" prospect, given how he played center only a handful of games in college.
Ironically, Creed Humphrey was the true plug-and-play guy, which is exactly what the Steelers needed...and they passed on him.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Now I’m a numbers guy. I think the analytics used by the previous GM for Cleveland is the reason they are successful now. Give them 3-4 years and I feel they will flop so here’s some numbers. Here’s the numbers between 2004 and 2015.

DB by round percentage of success.
1st- 64%
2nd- 46%
3rd- 24%
4th- 11%
5th- 17%
6th- 8%
7th- 11%

OL by round percentage of success.
1st- 83%
2nd- 70%
3rd- 40%
4th- 29%
5th- 16%
6th- 16%
7th- 9%

RB by round percentage of success.
1st- 58%
2nd- 25%
3rd- 16%
4th- 11%
5th- 9%
6th- 6%
7th- effectively 0%

Now to be fair to RB’s the RBBC is hard to factor in. But as you can see it’s harder than ever to get a bell cow. But this is what I see. We should be drafting an offensive linemen in the 4th, 5th or 6th every year we don’t need an offensive lineman. By doing that we have a 2/3 chance of getting a starter. On years we see in 2 years a contract is coming up and maybe it’s an aging player we aren’t sure we want to break the bank for we should be taking 2nd or 3rd guys. If you go 2nd and 3rd the two years before you are almost guaranteed 1 will start. And years where your starting center unexpectedly retires and you have no starter in the wings you have to get one that draft in the first two rounds.

That’s just what I’d be doing. And by doing that I feel you’d almost always have a guy waiting in the wings when a contract is coming up.
Just curious, how is "success" determined?
 

Superman

Everyone's Most Favorite Member
Ironically, Creed Humphrey was the true plug-and-play guy, which is exactly what the Steelers needed...and they passed on him.
and could have had Trey Smith in the 6th instead of drafting Quincy Roche, who's now a Giant. Smith is just being stable for the Chiefs at RG.
 

TDX27

Well-known member
Sure, they could have grabbed someone in the 1st or 2nd rounds but I have no problem with the Najee or Muth picks. I think both of them are going to man their positions well past their rookie contracts. Najee is a beast and I think Muth will be our No. 1 TE sooner rather than later. Ebron, if possible, looks like his hands got worse during the offseason. I guess he didn't invest in a jugs machine like JuJu did after his rookie season.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Sure, they could have grabbed someone in the 1st or 2nd rounds but I have no problem with the Najee or Muth picks. I think both of them are going to man their positions well past their rookie contracts. Najee is a beast and I think Muth will be our No. 1 TE sooner rather than later. Ebron, if possible, looks like his hands got worse during the offseason. I guess he didn't invest in a jugs machine like JuJu did after his rookie season.
I like both of those players as well. But the Steelers could have drafted a plug-n-play starter and been set at center for ten years, as opposed to a project taken just one round later. If they thought Green was ready to have success immediately, then they clearly were mistaken.
 

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