• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Titans signing Bud Dupree listed among worst decisions of offseason

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
That was coupled with Bush's injury and you would have to hope that Highsmith will make a second year jump. No question sack production went down. You have to hope for three things.
That's not true at all. The defense going south wasn't coupled with Bush's injury.

Bush got injured in week 5. Between week 5 and the end of week 11 (when Bud got hurt), the Steelers went 6-0 and gave up an average of 15.7 points per game. After Dupree went out, they were 1-4 and gave up 24.8 points per game. Then they got trounced by the Browns in the playoffs, with the defense allowing 41 points.

Seems pretty clear to me that it had a lot more to do with Bud than Bush.
 

SteelerSask2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
14,015
Reaction score
12,882
Points
113
Location
Western Canada
That's not true at all. The defense going south wasn't coupled with Bush's injury.

Bush got injured in week 5. Between week 5 and the end of week 11 (when Bud got hurt), the Steelers went 6-0 and gave up an average of 15.7 points per game. After Dupree went out, they were 1-4 and gave up 24.8 points per game. Then they got trounced by the Browns in the playoffs, with the defense allowing 41 points.

Seems pretty clear to me that it had a lot more to do with Bud than Bush.
Bud's absence would have been much more manageable with Bush in the lineup. At the point where Bud got hurt you are two legs out of the stool broken. You were down to only Watt as the centre piece linebacker.
 

Drink IRON City

KAYAK Champion who drives a LUXURY S10
Forefather
Contributor
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
30,269
Reaction score
30,410
Points
113
Location
between $2 short & ten buck two
Bud's absence would have been much more manageable with Bush in the lineup. At the point where Bud got hurt you are two legs out of the stool broken. You were down to only Watt as the centre piece linebacker.

OUR offense had a hand in the "Ds" demise as well. So yes, BUD's departure contributed similar to several other factors including BUSH's injury and how our offense was performing being another. NOT just one factor but a combination of several.

GREAT analogy SteelerSask




Salute the nation
 

Djfan

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
9,620
Reaction score
13,112
Points
113
I'll miss him, but I'm glad we moved on from him. We have good guys in the pipeline, and he was too expensive. God speed, Bud.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
Bud's absence would have been much more manageable with Bush in the lineup. At the point where Bud got hurt you are two legs out of the stool broken. You were down to only Watt as the centre piece linebacker.
Would it though? Like I pointed out, the Steelers were performing just fine without Bush. Spillane had better numbers. More sacks, more tackles, more TFLs, more passes defensed, and more interceptions. I'd venture to say that losing Spillane for the last four games in conjunction with Dupree's absence was just as important as not having Bush. In fact, the start of the defense's slide seemed to coincidentally begin shortly after Spillane's injury against Washington -- when they gave up 20 points in that second half.
 

bermudasteel

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
22,772
Reaction score
15,747
Points
113
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Would it though? Like I pointed out, the Steelers were performing just fine without Bush. Spillane had better numbers. More sacks, more tackles, more TFLs, more passes defensed, and more interceptions. I'd venture to say that losing Spillane for the last four games in conjunction with Dupree's absence was just as important as not having Bush. In fact, the start of the defense's slide seemed to coincidentally begin shortly after Spillane's injury against Washington -- when they gave up 20 points in that second half.
I'm not saying you're wrong; but, you can't compare the stats of Spillane to Bush as they didn't play in the same amount of games last season...
 

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
I'm not saying you're wrong; but, you can't compare the stats of Spillane to Bush as they didn't play in the same amount of games last season...
Had a feeling someone might use that argument, so I'll break it down through extrapolation:

Bush played 278 snaps; Spillane played 369. So we can multiply Bush's totals by 1.33 and get the fairest comparison.

Sacks:
Bush 1 (1.33) = 1
Spillane 2

Solo tackles:
Bush 16 (1.33) = 21
Spillane 39

Total tackles:
Bush 26 (1.33) = 35
Spillane 45

TFLs:
Bush 0
Spillane 4

Passes defensed:
Bush 3 (1.33) = 4
Spillane 4

Interceptions:
Bush 0
Spillane 1 (returned for a TD)

So as you can see, other than PDs, which would be equal, Spillane's numbers are still superior.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
Good post topseed. But made me think about time of possession in all those games. The Steelers offense was very different through the first 8 games.
True, but the difference in solo tackles (even extrapolated) is what really jumps out at me.
 

SteelerSask2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
14,015
Reaction score
12,882
Points
113
Location
Western Canada
Would it though? Like I pointed out, the Steelers were performing just fine without Bush. Spillane had better numbers. More sacks, more tackles, more TFLs, more passes defensed, and more interceptions. I'd venture to say that losing Spillane for the last four games in conjunction with Dupree's absence was just as important as not having Bush. In fact, the start of the defense's slide seemed to coincidentally begin shortly after Spillane's injury against Washington -- when they gave up 20 points in that second half.
Robert Spillane is not Bush. If Robert Spillane is Bush, they should have an all world force unit this year. Bush covers sideline to sideline, he covers quality TE's. So many of you focus on Team defense as it pertains to individuals. Lets be clear, losing Bud is huge. no question. He is a ten plus sack guy who causes turnovers and pressure while holding the edge. That said Alex Highsmith is a good big body edge player. He will probably get 6 plus sacks and hold the edge well. If that happens and Bush is back and the one bone three dogs for the other inside linebacker turns out well, you have a pretty damn good force unit.
 

SteelerSask2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
14,015
Reaction score
12,882
Points
113
Location
Western Canada
Had a feeling someone might use that argument, so I'll break it down through extrapolation:

Bush played 278 snaps; Spillane played 369. So we can multiply Bush's totals by 1.33 and get the fairest comparison.

Sacks:
Bush 1 (1.33) = 1
Spillane 2

Solo tackles:
Bush 16 (1.33) = 21
Spillane 39

Total tackles:
Bush 26 (1.33) = 35
Spillane 45

TFLs:
Bush 0
Spillane 4

Passes defensed:
Bush 3 (1.33) = 4
Spillane 4

Interceptions:
Bush 0
Spillane 1 (returned for a TD)

So as you can see, other than PDs, which would be equal, Spillane's numbers are still superior.
You can have Robert Spillane I will take Devin Bush any day and twice on Sundays. Cherry picked stats mean **** all. You need to look at film and understand assignment. Devin Bush is a premier athlete at his position. Robert Spillane is a solid try hard player.
 

SteelerFan448

Well-known member
Member
Forefather
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
14,939
Reaction score
16,754
Points
113
Bush's hype is more than his production at this point. He's a good player. Has he lived up to the investment they made in him? Not yet.

Bud has always had the opposite working against him. He was a project coming into the league and then was mismanaged by the coaching staff. Once they finally played him where he fit best, he took off. Bud is a good player, particularly in the Steelers system. I don't know if he'll meet the same production in Tennessee, but he was a valuable asset to the Steelers defense.
 

FordFairLane

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
6,083
Reaction score
3,906
Points
113
I’d say our skid at the end was due to multiple injuries. Dupree definitely hurt as did Bush. But lets not forget the guy I met at a bar in bumfuck Wisconsin after friends told me he plays for the Steelers and I had no clue who the **** he was ended up being our starting center down the stretch as well. That definitely didn’t help.
 

Black & Gold Bleeder

Well-known member
Forefather
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
7,640
Reaction score
6,198
Points
113
Location
Marietta, OH
regarding time of possesion. If the other team has the ball more,, doesnt that extrapolate to more opportunities for the defense?
 

steelhurt

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
6,844
Points
113
Players move on in today’s NFL and you better have the next guy ready to go. Was there a drop off after Bud with Highsmith? Yes, which you should expect since he got thrown to the wolves but I’ll bet he’s ready this year. Highsmith May surprise and play as well if not better than Bud. He had a better rookie year than Bud, that’s for sure so there’s plenty of room for him to grow. And look out for Roche as a backup and ST guy. Kid can play and Steelers absolutely stole this guy in the sixth.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
Robert Spillane is not Bush. If Robert Spillane is Bush, they should have an all world force unit this year. Bush covers sideline to sideline, he covers quality TE's. So many of you focus on Team defense as it pertains to individuals. Lets be clear, losing Bud is huge. no question. He is a ten plus sack guy who causes turnovers and pressure while holding the edge. That said Alex Highsmith is a good big body edge player. He will probably get 6 plus sacks and hold the edge well. If that happens and Bush is back and the one bone three dogs for the other inside linebacker turns out well, you have a pretty damn good force unit.
You can have Robert Spillane I will take Devin Bush any day and twice on Sundays. Cherry picked stats mean **** all. You need to look at film and understand assignment. Devin Bush is a premier athlete at his position. Robert Spillane is a solid try hard player.
No ****, Stevie Wonder can see that Spillane is not Bush. But you seem to have some kind of warped misconception of Bush's ability against the pass; perhaps it's you who needs to take a look at some of the film and understand that despite his speed and athleticism, Bush is simply not that great in coverage.

I didn't cherry-pick ****. I listed major categories. And yes, although you refuse to recognize it, there was no drop off in the team's performance after losing Bush. None. According to your assessment of this supposed all-world player, why wouldn't there be a huge difference without him?

You'd better take Bush twice on Sundays, because last season, once wasn't enough to create the number on splash plays we'd all expect from such a premier athlete at the position. Two half sacks, zero tackles for loss, zero interceptions, and only 16 solo tackles in nearly 300 snaps? Yeah, maybe Bush should try harder.
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Member
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
19,232
Reaction score
19,930
Points
113
Location
LP in the burgh
That's not true at all. The defense going south wasn't coupled with Bush's injury.

Bush got injured in week 5. Between week 5 and the end of week 11 (when Bud got hurt), the Steelers went 6-0 and gave up an average of 15.7 points per game. After Dupree went out, they were 1-4 and gave up 24.8 points per game. Then they got trounced by the Browns in the playoffs, with the defense allowing 41 points.

Seems pretty clear to me that it had a lot more to do with Bud than Bush.
Meh each major injury takes away flexibility in defensive sets.... you can lose a major piece to and defense and get past it, but we lost bush then vince, alualu, both of whom returned but didn’t play well afterwards and Bud, which left them perilously thin at olb plus losing haden for the Browns... it was just too much to overcome .....

i think Bud was just the straw that broke an overloaded camels back....
 

madinsomniac

Well-known member
Member
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
19,232
Reaction score
19,930
Points
113
Location
LP in the burgh
No ****, Stevie Wonder can see that Spillane is not Bush. But you seem to have some kind of warped misconception of Bush's ability against the pass; perhaps it's you who needs to take a look at some of the film and understand that despite his speed and athleticism, Bush is simply not that great in coverage.

I didn't cherry-pick ****. I listed major categories. And yes, although you refuse to recognize it, there was no drop off in the team's performance after losing Bush. None. According to your assessment of this supposed all-world player, why wouldn't there be a huge difference without him?

You'd better take Bush twice on Sundays, because last season, once wasn't enough to create the number on splash plays we'd all expect from such a premier athlete at the position. Two half sacks, zero tackles for loss, zero interceptions, and only 16 solo tackles in nearly 300 snaps? Yeah, maybe Bush should try harder.
Also Most ilbs take off in their third year... i think Shazier was meh the first year and a half but a pro bowler in his third season
 

slashsteel

Thank you for everything Franco, R I P.
Contributor
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
36,675
Reaction score
41,561
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh
I think if you put Bush in the window where Spillane roams he makes a ton of plays. I think when you cover more ground those plays won't always come. Plus Bush hasn't peeked yet. Still growing within the D. The injury did him no favors as well. I think we will see a better version of him. Just a matter of when.
 
Last edited:

Confluence

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
8,196
Reaction score
10,167
Points
113
I hope you're right but Dupree was at his high point when he got hurt - I, personally, think he'll pick up where he left off...
maybe, but he looks like Woodley did when Deebo was on the other side. If he excels this year, then he is worth the money he got.....but the Steelers knew when to let Woodley go; Bud looks similar in $ logic.
 

topseed

Well-known member
Contributor
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
4,076
Reaction score
4,139
Points
113
Location
Eastern PA
Meh each major injury takes away flexibility in defensive sets.... you can lose a major piece to and defense and get past it, but we lost bush then vince, alualu, both of whom returned but didn’t play well afterwards and Bud, which left them perilously thin at olb plus losing haden for the Browns... it was just too much to overcome .....

i think Bud was just the straw that broke an overloaded camels back....
Are you trying to tell me that if the Steelers lose Watt instead of Bush, they "get past it"? Nah, bro. Watt is a major piece. Bush has yet to prove to be one.

Of course more injuries are going to eventually take a toll. But Bush's was the first and easiest to dissect; the numbers speak for themselves.
Also Most ilbs take off in their third year... i think Shazier was meh the first year and a half but a pro bowler in his third season
I think if you put Bush in the window where Spillane roams he makes a ton of plays. I think when you cover more grown those plays won't always come. Plus Bush hasn't peeked yet. Still growing within the D. The injury did him no favors as well. I think we will see a better version of him. Just a matter of when.
It took Dupree quite some time to develop, so I hope you guys are right about Bush. He needs to play much better in coverage, because it's become apparent that Tomlin's defensive philosophy is what it is...it's on the player to adapt to the defense, not vice-versa.
 
Top